Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

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ruleser
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby ruleser » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:26 am

OperaSoprano wrote:This makes sense. I see law school as a grand adventure, but I also love it for what it is substantively; pin-citing, and memos at 4:00 am. I don't know what's going to happen next, and I expect to make in the neighborhood of $40k when I get out of here (public interest FTW), but really, I knew that when I walked in.

Look, let me tell everyone from experience - it is who you are and specifically how good you work that determines your career. I graduated from a basic state school with a theater degree, and just started with some temp admin assist job that I never intended to become anything, in a field I'd never even heard of, non-profit foundation work. But I got there, I was motivated, hard working, smart, they offered me a full-time gig. I was able to help improve things, learned quickly, 1 1/2 years later I had a higher level. Another year or so, I was a Director at a non-profit. Long story short, I am now exec level for a large service area for a large, multi-state non-profit, earning very good money, being offered other ops even as the economy is bad - my work just laid off a bunch of people, yet they came to me and said they hope I won't leave for another op. You make your career. As someone who has managed/hired people for years, truly good employees are hard to find. Good attitudes, good work ethic, real problem solving skills, adaptability, and that special something. A lot of what you hear in law aside from the TTT'ers are T14ers, or T1ers who just aren't good employees - money/grades can only get you so much in life. I worked at my current job alongside a T20 grad - she was the worst employee I'd ever known. Spent most of her time gossiping and complaining and couldn't take a useful, productive step to save her life, and, T20 JD and all, she was about to be laid off (managed to run off to somewhere else.) So take that lesson - me and my theatre degree from a basic state school is working exec level and being asked strongly to stay, while T20 JD was not only not moving ahead, but about being shown the door. The degree/education might just open a door - you make your career - whether that means you make it good or miserable.

As a note, that crappy T20er had a personality just like those JDUers. People with attitudes like that don't succeed - its self-fulfilling.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:28 am

rondemarino wrote:
SplitterPride wrote:Want to know what THEY think about YOU?

HERE:

http://www.jdunderground.com/thread.php?threadId=39448


Not sure what to make of it..... I don't think TLS is that clueless, but then again....


was kind of a fun read, though i mean...its stupid because they just shoot down other people's baseless assumptions w/ their own baseless assumptions hahaha

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BaiAilian2013
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:55 am

DoubleChecks wrote:
really? i dont see the incentive for lying online -- lol, make your screen name look better? ppl on here might alter their true numbers a smidge (due to paranoia), but hardly outright lie haha.


Not only is the incentive for lying unclear, but I never understood how someone could stand the pain of glorying in a score he knows he doesn't have.

Here is some more of what they think about us:

Most of the people on that board do not go, and are not going, to top schools. People who are serious about law school don't need information from some message board started by someone who crapped out of the professsion.


I don't have an intelligent explanation of why right now, but I'm pretty sure this is a silly claim. I feel like the information many people come here for is not regardins questions like "durr should I go to law skool to hide from the economies?" but more along the lines of "where the hell is X School's app and why can't we get a straight answer out of these people??". Top law school candidates are exactly the sort of people who need message boards, because they are the candidates who will want to get a read on their competition and learn more about specific law schools or the law school application process than one would learn merely from reading some viewbooks and filling out some apps. These boards feed into information-hoarding and mild neurosis, and we know how clever people tend to feel about those things. ("Yes! Give me your buckets of random facts! These will somehow help me in life!")

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Borhas
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Borhas » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:37 am

SplitterPride wrote:Want to know what THEY think about YOU?

HERE:

http://www.jdunderground.com/thread.php?threadId=39448

woah there some serious hating going on from both aisles... but wow that place is just really angry... I think their point of view isn't completely baseless but I wonder why they make it with so much bitter anger

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rGsgbJsl1
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby rGsgbJsl1 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:00 am

Fuck...
I don't think I've read a forum as somber as JDU.

Honestly be it as it may, those TTTT attorneys in JDU have more credibility than what the next next millionaire 0L in TLS has.

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Borhas
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Borhas » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:08 am

getting a law degree is definitely not a guarantee of being a semi successful lawyer, I think that is actually pretty different than every other professional school is it not? Maybe it's time the ABA take accreditation away from some schools to cut down the numbers

rabble
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby rabble » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:32 am

IMO the "bitterness" found in a lot of JDUnderground posts stems from all the people who went into law not becuase they wanted to practice law, but becuase they thought it was an easy way to $$$. No matter what career you're looking at, if you only go into it coveting a giant paycheck, then you're most likely going to end up angry/bitter/gloomy etc....

I want to go to law school to be a lawyer (of any variety), and I'll take what I get salary-wise.

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MTal
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby MTal » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:43 am

rabble wrote:IMO the "bitterness" found in a lot of JDUnderground posts stems from all the people who went into law not becuase they wanted to practice law, but becuase they thought it was an easy way to $$$. No matter what career you're looking at, if you only go into it coveting a giant paycheck, then you're most likely going to end up angry/bitter/gloomy etc....

I want to go to law school to be a lawyer (of any variety), and I'll take what I get salary-wise.


You'll take a 35k salary and 6 figure debt to go along with it, and that's IF you can find a job as a lawyer at all?

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby TheLuckyOne » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:54 am

Most of the people on that board do not go, and are not going, to top schools. People who are serious about law school don't need information from some message board started by someone who crapped out of the professsion.


That's the most nonsense thing I've read in awhile! Actually, I think it's exactly the opposite. People who are really serious about what they are going to pursue WILL, in fact, search for as much info as they can possibly get. What a ridiculous comment.

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puppleberry finn
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby puppleberry finn » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:05 am

wait, law school has kool-aid too? SWEET. this only re-affirms my decision to attend.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby D. H2Oman » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:09 am

puppins wrote:wait, law school has kool-aid too? SWEET. this only re-affirms my decision to attend.



I hope it's not generic knockoff kool-aid.

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puppleberry finn
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby puppleberry finn » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:11 am

Dwaterman86 wrote:
puppins wrote:wait, law school has kool-aid too? SWEET. this only re-affirms my decision to attend.



I hope it's not generic knockoff kool-aid.

maybe if you go to a TTT. YLS has BRAND NAME kool aid.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby D. H2Oman » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:13 am

puppins wrote:
Dwaterman86 wrote:
puppins wrote:wait, law school has kool-aid too? SWEET. this only re-affirms my decision to attend.



I hope it's not generic knockoff kool-aid.

maybe if you go to a TTT. YLS has BRAND NAME kool aid.



I think I better start getting ready for the stop and shop brand kool aid.

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby TheLuckyOne » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:15 am

Another quote from jdtruth2009

As far as that guy, Ken, well, he apparently went to Boalt, which is good, but if you look at his background, you'll see that he's a URM. Very likely this guy got into a law school of that caliber because of AA. He didn't leave to start his own firm; like most of these URMs who don't belong in law school, he probably got pushed out because he didn't have the goods to succeed in the real world of legal practice.



LOL what?! :lol:

Pearalegal
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Pearalegal » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:22 am

TheLuckyOne wrote:Another quote from jdtruth2009

As far as that guy, Ken, well, he apparently went to Boalt, which is good, but if you look at his background, you'll see that he's a URM. Very likely this guy got into a law school of that caliber because of AA. He didn't leave to start his own firm; like most of these URMs who don't belong in law school, he probably got pushed out because he didn't have the goods to succeed in the real world of legal practice.



LOL what?! :lol:



haha, the username is so apt.

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby AngryAvocado » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:44 am

I take most of the whining that I see on sites like JDU with a grain of salt. Why? Because law is the perfect opportunity for plenty of people who can't hack it in the real world to delay the inevitable by going back to get a degree that they think will be their ticket to the high life.

If you do the research on placement and employment for the schools you are considering, and you're willing to bust your ass for a while after graduating, there really shouldn't be many surprises for you. It's your responsibility to know what you're getting into ahead of time. It's true that some people get shafted, yes, but I believe it's also true that the vast majority of the whining stems from people who attended some mediocre school (or who graduated below the median at a decent school) and feel like they're entitled to some six-figure salary.

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ruleser
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby ruleser » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:49 am

AngryAvocado wrote:I take most of the whining that I see on sites like JDU with a grain of salt. Why? Because law is the perfect opportunity for plenty of people who can't hack it in the real world to delay the inevitable by going back to get a degree that they think will be their ticket to the high life.

If you do the research on placement and employment for the schools you are considering, and you're willing to bust your ass for a while after graduating, there really shouldn't be many surprises for you. It's your responsibility to know what you're getting into ahead of time. It's true that some people get shafted, yes, but I believe it's also true that the vast majority of the whining stems from people who attended some mediocre school (or who graduated below the median at a decent school) and feel like they're entitled to some six-figure salary.

+1 look, I live in Hollywood, how many people out here talk about how tough it is to be an actor - sorry, it is a bit like law, every directionless person or person who is unhappy with their life shoots out to LA to 'make it' - I've put up shows here, and people come to audition never having done anything, and not really having an interest in anything, they just think they are cute enough or whitty or want a reason to party - very similar to law, just no academic requirement at all. How many people would be flooding the baseball profession if you could do it at almost any age and it had no specific requirements, and there were little league teams that were MLB accredited that gave the impression if you give them $100K they'll get you into the big leagues...

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Gaius
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Gaius » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:00 pm

JDU has somewhat of a point, but they go to far. In this market I think its really T14 or bust (or full ride at a T1 near where you want to live). It used to take Top 30% to get biglaw from regional T1s like Illinois, but now its 10%. Considering it probably costs 180K to attend, that isn't a good bet.

Even for a t14 you need to have a backup plan.

My backup plan in case I flame out of law school is: 1) high-school teacher or 2)military(not even JAG)

Both qualify for IBR public interest forgiveness. Not exactly high powered corporate law, but hey I can live with it.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:03 pm

Gaius wrote:JDU has somewhat of a point, but they go to far. In this market I think its really T14 or bust (or full ride at a T1 near where you want to live).


JDU has always been a cesspool of whimpering and moaning, regardless of the market.

Law is often a high risk, high reward business (and has been for a while). It's not a secret that there are winners and losers. It's just for the losers, somebody came up with a website for them to congregate.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:12 pm

They don't even realize that 99% of tort cases are garbage auto accidents with 25 K policies and clients who are scam artist immigrants with BS "injuries."


Seriously? Have any of these guys even worked in tort law? I won't say there aren't scammers out there trying to take advantage of the system, but to say that 99% of tort cases revolve around bullshit injuries in hysterically over-cynical.

To enter ANY law school short of Yale or Harvard today is totally insane.


Yeah, all those Stanford, Columbia, and Chicago grads are just f'in crazy for having gone to such a TTT.

$80K? Most of my classmates - the less than 50% who are practicing law - are not making that 10+ years out, sorry to say.


Okay, do we have any doubt what level of schools these goofballs are going to?

The whole thing is just silly. My best advice to any potential law student is 1) start networking and meet some lawyers, preferably in your field of preference, and 2) get a job in the legal field, preferably in your field of preference, but really any legal job will help immensely in giving you a better look into the profession

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Matthies
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Matthies » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:35 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
They don't even realize that 99% of tort cases are garbage auto accidents with 25 K policies and clients who are scam artist immigrants with BS "injuries."


Seriously? Have any of these guys even worked in tort law? I won't say there aren't scammers out there trying to take advantage of the system, but to say that 99% of tort cases revolve around bullshit injuries in hysterically over-cynical.

To enter ANY law school short of Yale or Harvard today is totally insane.


Yeah, all those Stanford, Columbia, and Chicago grads are just f'in crazy for having gone to such a TTT.

$80K? Most of my classmates - the less than 50% who are practicing law - are not making that 10+ years out, sorry to say.


Okay, do we have any doubt what level of schools these goofballs are going to?

The whole thing is just silly. My best advice to any potential law student is 1) start networking and meet some lawyers, preferably in your field of preference, and 2) get a job in the legal field, preferably in your field of preference, but really any legal job will help immensely in giving you a better look into the profession



This.

You can be a lawyer and you can be successful out of any law school. The lower you go down the rankings the more work you have to do on your own to get that success. You’re going to have to work harder for it, make your own success and you can’t rely on the name of your school or OCI to hand it to you. Know that going in and plan accordingly. Minimize your debt, network while in law school, get active in legal community and do the things you need to do in law school to make your own options and things will work out. Leave it all chance and then blame your school, the rankings, the economy or the system for your failures and you will be on JDU bitching about how life passed you by while you waited for it to hand you something. Successful lawyers make their own success and they make better role models than unsuccessful lawyers.

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MTal
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby MTal » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:39 pm

There are more "successful" lawyers posting on JDU than there are on TLS, which has virtually NO lawyers posting here.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:41 pm

I'm a lawyer.

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MTal
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby MTal » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:42 pm

You also post on JDU, or rather have posted until recently. Apart from yourself, I can't think of any other lawyers who post here.

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Matthies
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Matthies » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:44 pm

MTal wrote:There are more "successful" lawyers posting on JDU than there are on TLS, which has virtually NO lawyers posting here.


Reasonable Man is a lawyer, and there are a few others on here. But your best bet is to go out and meet real live working lawyers in your community and get thier advice that's targeted to where you want to work and from the people you will be working with/for.




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