Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

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katieg
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Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby katieg » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:56 pm

I've been surfing through JD underground, and I've come across some very interesting topics. As most of you know, these people absolutely despise the profession because of the current position they're in - Many went to tier 3s and have no job but plenty of debt.

I came across a poster today that said something that I thought I would ask about on TLS. He said that if you can't get into a T30 (at LEAST) and you definitely want to go to law school, then it is a good idea to take a full ride at a TTT or even a TTTT rather than paying for higher tuition at a lower ranked T1/T2.

What do all of you think about this?

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Helmholtz
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:57 pm

It depends. Full tuition at state schools is usually not bad, but if you're choosing between Case Western at full price or Cleveland State for free, well, I'm not going to fault you for going with CSU.

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MTal
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby MTal » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:58 pm

Unlike the people who post here, the posters there have "been there, done that." I wouldn't lightly dismiss what they have to say.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:59 pm

MTal wrote:Unlike the people posters here, the posters there have "been there, done that." I wouldn't lightly dismiss what they have to say.


You have a self-selecting group of the biggest losers of a very big profession. I wouldn't take what they say too heavily.

CyLaw
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby CyLaw » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:59 pm

I think it really matters on the region you want to practice in. I would probably consider a full ride to a TTT in my state over full sticker at a T2 in my state, but I would not go to some random TTT in another state just for the full ride.

katieg
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby katieg » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:01 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
MTal wrote:Unlike the people posters here, the posters there have "been there, done that." I wouldn't lightly dismiss what they have to say.


You have a self-selecting group of the biggest losers of a very big profession. I wouldn't take what they say too heavily.


Ya I've always wondered if they ARE actually the complete losers of the profession or if they represent 80-90% of lawyers.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby D. H2Oman » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:02 pm

I think it's good advice that, excluding the very top schools, cost should be a major determining factor. I don't think you can come up with any general rule though; it really depends on the specific situation. Also, remember a lot of lower ranked schools tend to have more stringent standards for scholarship retention.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:05 pm

katieg wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
MTal wrote:Unlike the people posters here, the posters there have "been there, done that." I wouldn't lightly dismiss what they have to say.


You have a self-selecting group of the biggest losers of a very big profession. I wouldn't take what they say too heavily.


Ya I've always wondered whether they ARE actually the complete losers of the profession or if they represent 80-90% of lawyers.


I know a lot of lawyers who have graduated anywhere from Harvard to Ohio State to Capital and practice in anything from family law to torts to probate to contracts. Most of them are happy with what they do and make decent money, although usually nothing outrageous or even in the six digits. The JDU people are the outliers. Most successful attorneys aren't drawn to Internet forums in general and especially those forums populated by people who bitch about how hard life is.

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TTTTT
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby TTTTT » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:28 pm

MTal wrote:Unlike the people who post here, the posters there have "been there, done that." I wouldn't lightly dismiss what they have to say.



Some of the most racist, obnoxious, and downright stupid comments that exist on the internet can be found at jdunderground. The fact that no one there has any capacity to pick up on sarcasm doesn't help matters either.

And I agree with a lot of the general feelings they have there about the aba, lower-tiered schools, and the "racket" some law schools are running in general, however, most of what you'll find there is just scrapping the bottom of the barrel pathetic.

And the answer to the op's original question depends entirely on if that scholarship is dependent on anything. A full ride at a state TTT is much different than a scholarship at a TTTT that will be revoked if you don't make a certain class percentile.

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MTal
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby MTal » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:37 pm

Author: katre
Subject: agree
Time: October 12, 2009 - 7:28 am

i would have quit law school my first semester, too... but couldn't b/c i didn't want to be labeled a "quitter" and didn't want people to think i was quitting b/c i couldn't 'hack it.'

i wanted to quit for financial reasons... i knew i'd end up 100k in debt and start my career at 50k. Which is exactly what happened, and now i'm financially ruined for the next 30 years paying $1,000/month in loans. i am a lawyer, working 60+ hours a week and it feels like i'm living below the poverty line. i honestly can't afford a new pair of shoes right now.

it was my ego that made me stay in law school... and i'll be paying for it the next 30 years. i really wish I had had the courage to quit, as well.


Does this sound like a "loser" to you?

http://www.jdunderground.com/thread.php?threadId=39525

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Helmholtz
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:40 pm

MTal wrote:
Author: katre
Subject: agree
Time: October 12, 2009 - 7:28 am

i would have quit law school my first semester, too... but couldn't b/c i didn't want to be labeled a "quitter" and didn't want people to think i was quitting b/c i couldn't 'hack it.'

i wanted to quit for financial reasons... i knew i'd end up 100k in debt and start my career at 50k. Which is exactly what happened, and now i'm financially ruined for the next 30 years paying $1,000/month in loans. i am a lawyer, working 60+ hours a week and it feels like i'm living below the poverty line. i honestly can't afford a new pair of shoes right now.

it was my ego that made me stay in law school... and i'll be paying for it the next 30 years. i really wish I had had the courage to quit, as well.


Does this sound like a "loser" to you?

http://www.jdunderground.com/thread.php?threadId=39525


yes?

dumbasses need to understand 1) what they're getting into beforehand and 2) sunk costs

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MTal
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby MTal » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:42 pm

^^that describes about 80 % of law school graduates today, and that's IF they can find a legal job at all.

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TTTTT
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby TTTTT » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:47 pm

MTal wrote:^^that describes about 80 % of law school graduates today, and that's IF they can find a legal job at all.



And this is why it's important for people to realize that 80% of law schools aren't worth going to. But there's a lot of way to get information on this without having to deal with the bitter, close-minded bigots on jdunderground.

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bumblebeetoona
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby bumblebeetoona » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:48 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
MTal wrote:Unlike the people posters here, the posters there have "been there, done that." I wouldn't lightly dismiss what they have to say.


You have a self-selecting group of the biggest losers of a very big profession. I wouldn't take what they say too heavily.


But on TLS we have a self-selecting group of 0Ls and 1Ls who think they know a lot more than they actually do. :| I don't take much of what I read on here seriously, either, since almost all of it comes from people who aren't even lawyers.

In response to OP's question: I would not go to any school without a full (or very heavily subsidized) ride. It's simply not worth it to me.

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MTal
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby MTal » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:48 pm

The person whom I quoted was neither close-minded, nor a bigot.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:08 pm

bumblebeetoona wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
MTal wrote:Unlike the people posters here, the posters there have "been there, done that." I wouldn't lightly dismiss what they have to say.


You have a self-selecting group of the biggest losers of a very big profession. I wouldn't take what they say too heavily.


But on TLS we have a self-selecting group of 0Ls and 1Ls who think they know a lot more than they actually do. :|


Granted. Which is why I ignore a lot of the stuff on here. I wouldn't take what the vast majority of people on TLS say too seriously either. You need to understand who is doing the posting. JDU has all the schmucks who have failed at life for the most part and on TLS you have word of mouth hearsay passed around by people who often don't know better.

On the other hand, TLS does really shine in the LSAT department.

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Philo38
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Philo38 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:15 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
bumblebeetoona wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
MTal wrote:Unlike the people posters here, the posters there have "been there, done that." I wouldn't lightly dismiss what they have to say.


You have a self-selecting group of the biggest losers of a very big profession. I wouldn't take what they say too heavily.


But on TLS we have a self-selecting group of 0Ls and 1Ls who think they know a lot more than they actually do. :|


Granted. Which is why I ignore a lot of the stuff on here. I wouldn't take what the vast majority of people on TLS say too seriously either. You need to understand who is doing the posting. JDU has all the schmucks who have failed at life for the most part and on TLS you have word of mouth hearsay passed around by people who often don't know better.

On the other hand, TLS does really shine in the LSAT department.


Actually, it is probably pretty good advice not take anything anybody says on any internet forum too seriously.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:16 pm

Philo38 wrote:Actually, it is probably pretty good advice not take anything anybody says on any internet forum too seriously.


Well, when it comes to the LSAT advice from people who did really well on the test, it's probably really to your benefit to take it seriously.

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bumblebeetoona
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby bumblebeetoona » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:18 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
Philo38 wrote:Actually, it is probably pretty good advice not take anything anybody says on any internet forum too seriously.


Well, when it comes to the LSAT advice from people who did really well on the test, it's probably really to your benefit to take it seriously.


Unless they're lying about their scores...?

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Philo38
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Philo38 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:20 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
Philo38 wrote:Actually, it is probably pretty good advice not take anything anybody says on any internet forum too seriously.


Well, when it comes to the LSAT advice from people who did really well on the test, it's probably really to your benefit to take it seriously.


Granted, you probably have a point on the LSAT. But it says TOO seriously. I certainly wouldn't use TLS as my sole source of information on how to attack the LSAT. In fact, the only reason that I know most of the advice on this site is so good is because I consulted many different sources which I'm sure we all did.

showNprove
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby showNprove » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:22 pm

Actually, the poster from JD Underground probably isn't far off. From examining schools' reputations and their placement records, I put the ceiling at about T40, rather than T30. I'm of the opinion that it's not worth to go to law school outside the T40 (give or take) without some scholarship unless being an attorney is your sole desire in life.

Then again, if that sole desire is to be a biglaw attorney, and you can't crack T40, you might as well quit while you're (financially) ahead.

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mpj_3050
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby mpj_3050 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:24 pm

I have a friend that is contemplating law school and more than likely would have to go to a 3rd or 4th tier. I mean, I am not some elitist that believes HYS are the only options and I know that I can't go to a t-10. But I know that I can offer a very competitive app at the 15-50 block. Really, what if you had to go to a 3rd or 4th and were still bearing most the financial burden? I keep telling him that it probably isn't worth it. Is the consensus that you pretty much have to go to a top-50 to stand a decent shot or an outlier at the bottom ones? His absolute best-case scenario is admission to the 60's ranking wise.

katieg
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby katieg » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:26 pm

showNprove wrote:Actually, the poster from JD Underground probably isn't far off. From examining schools' reputations and their placement records, I put the ceiling at about T40, rather than T30. I'm of the opinion that it's not worth to go to law school outside the T40 (give or take) without some scholarship unless being an attorney is your sole desire in life.

Then again, if that sole desire is to be a biglaw attorney, and you can't crack T40, you might as well quit while you're (financially) ahead.


The guy on JDU actually said T14, but I said T30 because I can't get into a T14. Also, T30 sounded more reasonable.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:27 pm

bumblebeetoona wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Philo38 wrote:Actually, it is probably pretty good advice not take anything anybody says on any internet forum too seriously.


Well, when it comes to the LSAT advice from people who did really well on the test, it's probably really to your benefit to take it seriously.


Unless they're lying about their scores...?


Maybe I should have stated "people who know the test well". If some advice is bullshit, chances are they're going to be told that.

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bumblebeetoona
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Re: Drinking the JD Underground Kool-Aid.

Postby bumblebeetoona » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:30 pm

Helmholtz wrote:Maybe I should have stated "people who know the test well". If some advice is bullshit, chances are they're going to be told that.

Jesus, don't be so nitpicking.


I'm not nitpicking. I believe that a lot of people here lie about their scores, and that the TLS population in general is not even close to representative of actual T14 students. That doesn't mean I don't love many posters here (including you).




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