How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

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A'nold
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby A'nold » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:52 am

biggamejames wrote:
A'nold wrote:Hmmm....yeah, I guess op did list southern schools. I just find it weird that there is all this "racial tension" out there still. I grew up in an area where there really wasn't much outward racism (on the whole) but it was CONSTANTLY brought up in school and with progressive/liberal kinds of groups in college. They acted like they were on the front lines of the civil rights movement or something and were entirely over PC about everything. I guess it might have caused me to become a little bit jaded on the subject like people are just causing problems where none exist. It's like people in the South and other parts of the country have to deal with REAL racism and the people where I'm from kind of diminish the severity of those that really struggle with this by being like, "how dare you say the word "black", it's African American you racist!" to some white kid that has like 10 black friends that all told him they prefer to be called "black" lol. That's the kind of "racism" I grew up with.

Racism is definitely not just a Southern thing. Try to get a white, upper-class East Coaster to go with you into even the safe parts of Harlem or West Philly and see what happens.


Hmmm......I see what you are saying, however, safe is a relative thing.

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biggamejames
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby biggamejames » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:59 am

A'nold wrote:
biggamejames wrote:Racism is definitely not just a Southern thing. Try to get a white, upper-class East Coaster to go with you into even the safe parts of Harlem or West Philly and see what happens.


Hmmm......I see what you are saying, however, safe is a relative thing.

Even if we grant that their concerns are really only about relative crime rates and have nothing to do with their having black-majority populations (which I don't believe is true), there's still a lot of racism in the Northeast - it just hides behind the marginally more acceptable facades of classism and cultural elitism.

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h_frog_88
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby h_frog_88 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:16 am

Not to send this spiraling into a racism thread, but I did go to a school that suffered from serious racism issues. My UG is 70%+ WASP and it was not uncommon to hear people discuss going to the "ghetto" (the main cafeteria where most of the athletes congregated, which constituted the largest AA contingency). The first black girl accepted into a non-black sorority occurred last year and was done amidst whispers of disapproval. I genuinely hope and expect that this will not be the case at USC.

LawDog3
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby LawDog3 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:43 am

frank_the_tank wrote:
LawDog3 wrote:
T_Easy wrote:As a 22 year old, 2009 undergrad graduate black male (3.3 GPA, good softs) studying hard for my first LSAT in September and looking hard at schools like Georgetown, Cornell, Vanderbilt, and Columbia, I want to know the presence of black males at these schools. I know the statistics, but I want to hear first hand experience from people that attend these and other T20 schools. Do they seclude themselves? Are they social? How do they perform in classes? Just wondering...

Thanks in advance.


They are so rare that you can get into virtually any top school (including HYS) with an LSAT of 160+

Some day that will change, as we are slowly getting better that the test and more of us are looking at law as a viable profession. But today? You must get a 160 or better my friend. Even if you can manage a 157 you will get some looks from top-20 (likely waitlists if your writing is fair, maybe admitted if you write really well).

155 or better keeps you in the top 50...maybe top-30.


omg wow. LawDog admits that HYS are top schools. What a miracle!

He then goes on to discuss rankings without putting down the people that take them into consideration when choosing a school...


First, I am only citing the reality of how adcoms will view the man's file. Secondly, I don't dispute that there must be some hierarchy in the schools. I just believe that blind acceptance of that hierarchy is extremely dangerous. In other words, I acknowledge the perceptions that have been created by the rankings, as well as the behaviors of the respective adcoms in admissions. That doesn't mean that I view certain schools as necessarily "better" than others.

I can acknowledge that Cornell is ranked higher than UCLA and that Cornell students tend to have the stronger numbers, in part, due to the respective adcoms' critereon and, in part, due to self-selection of the students. These are facts OP will have to face when choosing schools. But OP should also view rankings with a critical eye and make choices for himself. Many Black applicants have decided that "best" means T-14 or Howard...period. That's ok. I had decided that it was top-25 plus some others scattered along the tiers down to TTT.

And actually, I realize that, for the purposes of this thread, I called HYS "top", but HYS are actually "super-elites" (as opposed to "top"), as I have said in the thread on defining the "top" law schools. Elite schools are #4-18 (or so). Tops are #20 (or so) through #50 (maybe even #75). But there are T3 and T4 schools I consider "top", namely Howard, Wayne St. and Suffolk.

Rankings are "tools" to be used in choosing a school. But the choice should not be determined by rankings. There's a difference.

Oblomov
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby Oblomov » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:47 am

hopefulundergrad wrote:13 AAs in Chicago's 1L class. Ridiculous.


Not really. Chicago has a class of 180, 13% of America is black. So AA presence is about half of their population percentage. Low, of course, but I wouldn't say ridiculous.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:20 am

biggamejames wrote:
A'nold wrote:Hmmm....yeah, I guess op did list southern schools. I just find it weird that there is all this "racial tension" out there still. I grew up in an area where there really wasn't much outward racism (on the whole) but it was CONSTANTLY brought up in school and with progressive/liberal kinds of groups in college. They acted like they were on the front lines of the civil rights movement or something and were entirely over PC about everything. I guess it might have caused me to become a little bit jaded on the subject like people are just causing problems where none exist. It's like people in the South and other parts of the country have to deal with REAL racism and the people where I'm from kind of diminish the severity of those that really struggle with this by being like, "how dare you say the word "black", it's African American you racist!" to some white kid that has like 10 black friends that all told him they prefer to be called "black" lol. That's the kind of "racism" I grew up with.

Racism is definitely not just a Southern thing. Try to get a white, upper-class East Coaster to go with you into even the safe parts of Harlem or West Philly and see what happens.

Or go into rural parts of the northeast. I live about an hour from Ithaca, and grew up riding the school bus with high school members of the KKK. Yes, the Klan is still active in the northeast. Yes, we have plenty of racism up here.

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lawlover829
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby lawlover829 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:54 am

Oblomov wrote:
hopefulundergrad wrote:13 AAs in Chicago's 1L class. Ridiculous.


Not really. Chicago has a class of 180, 13% of America is black. So AA presence is about half of their population percentage. Low, of course, but I wouldn't say ridiculous.

23.4 AAs thats still small.

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keylimelove
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby keylimelove » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:22 am

hopefulundergrad wrote:
keylimelove wrote:
hopefulundergrad wrote:13 AAs in Chicago's 1L class. Ridiculous.


I'm pretty sure its only ten for the incoming class. It's making me feel a little strange, I have to admit.


Chicago states that they don't take URM status into account when making admissions decisions. Since EVERYONE says this I kind of gave it a :roll: and moved on. But these stats make it seem like they do stick to their word.


I'm not sure why the number is so low, and I'm definitely interested in talking with students when I get there about it. I agree with you in that I seriously doubt they don't take URM status into account...

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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby kurama20 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:23 pm

keylimelove wrote:
hopefulundergrad wrote:
keylimelove wrote:
hopefulundergrad wrote:13 AAs in Chicago's 1L class. Ridiculous.


I'm pretty sure its only ten for the incoming class. It's making me feel a little strange, I have to admit.


Chicago states that they don't take URM status into account when making admissions decisions. Since EVERYONE says this I kind of gave it a :roll: and moved on. But these stats make it seem like they do stick to their word.


I'm not sure why the number is so low, and I'm definitely interested in talking with students when I get there about it. I agree with you in that I seriously doubt they don't take URM status into account...


Chicago only had 6 black males in last year's entering class. I think one of the reasons they don't have a lot of blacks is because of the way they give out financial aid. They simply seem not to care about giving need based aid. I've heard this from a lot of posters. Aid is paramount for many black applicants, and when you consider that Chicago doesn't have the pull of say Columbia( or honestly even NYU) with a lot of black applicants they are not going to choose Chicago. NYU and Columbia seem to be pretty generous with their need based aid; black applicants are more likely to follow the money than most other applicants are. Chicago really isn't that conservative either. It's actually moderate; it's just like what hopefulundergrad said, compared to other top schools they are conservative because most of the others are hyper liberal (NYU, Boalt, Michigan). In comparison Chicago comes across as conservative.

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keylimelove
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby keylimelove » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:42 pm

kurama20 wrote:Chicago only had 6 black males in last year's entering class. I think one of the reasons they don't have a lot of blacks is because of the way they give out financial aid. They simply seem not to care about giving need based aid. I've heard this from a lot of posters. Aid is paramount for many black applicants, and when you consider that Chicago doesn't have the pull of say Columbia( or honestly even NYU) with a lot of black applicants they are not going to choose Chicago. NYU and Columbia seem to be pretty generous with their need based aid; black applicants are more likely to follow the money than most other applicants are. Chicago really isn't that conservative either. It's actually moderate; it's just like what hopefulundergrad said, compared to other top schools they are conservative because most of the others are hyper liberal (NYU, Boalt, Michigan). In comparison Chicago comes across as conservative.


I agree that the way they give out aid (and lack thereof) sucks, and so that wouldn't surprise me if it is one of the main factors keeping a lot of black students out of Chicago. Hopefully they will change their attitude with regards to need based aid as it seems that each year fewer and fewer black students attend. If I remember correctly from the BLSA e-mail we received a few days ago, I think there were only 3 black males listed...even for a small class, that's ridiculous.

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Pankun
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby Pankun » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:16 pm

TopLaw_Diva wrote:
T_Easy wrote:Thanks for all the replies.

I've always wondered about this, and it seems like black males are really basically unheard of in top 20 law schools.


I'm coming into Cornell c/o 2012 and so far my girlfriends and I have not spotted any incoming black males...at our Admitted Student Day it was all female...kind of disappointing...we're still hoping some of the brothas slipped through our radar though... :wink:


sista please, T14 brothas all got white girlfriends

zyxwvut7
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby zyxwvut7 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:17 pm

SoxyPirate wrote:Medium rare?
--ImageRemoved--


Haha, I thought it was funny at least...

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T_Easy
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby T_Easy » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:20 pm

Pankun wrote:
TopLaw_Diva wrote:
T_Easy wrote:Thanks for all the replies.

I've always wondered about this, and it seems like black males are really basically unheard of in top 20 law schools.


I'm coming into Cornell c/o 2012 and so far my girlfriends and I have not spotted any incoming black males...at our Admitted Student Day it was all female...kind of disappointing...we're still hoping some of the brothas slipped through our radar though... :wink:


sista please, T14 brothas all got white girlfriends


LMAO...true

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biggamejames
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby biggamejames » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:29 pm

T_Easy wrote:
Pankun wrote:
TopLaw_Diva wrote:I'm coming into Cornell c/o 2012 and so far my girlfriends and I have not spotted any incoming black males...at our Admitted Student Day it was all female...kind of disappointing...we're still hoping some of the brothas slipped through our radar though... :wink:


sista please, T14 brothas all got white girlfriends


LMAO...true

Looks like you'll just have to make sure and come to one of the t-14s that has white guys that would love to keep you company :mrgreen:

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Jay-Electronica
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby Jay-Electronica » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:41 pm

Pankun wrote:
TopLaw_Diva wrote:
T_Easy wrote:Thanks for all the replies.

I've always wondered about this, and it seems like black males are really basically unheard of in top 20 law schools.


I'm coming into Cornell c/o 2012 and so far my girlfriends and I have not spotted any incoming black males...at our Admitted Student Day it was all female...kind of disappointing...we're still hoping some of the brothas slipped through our radar though... :wink:


sista please, T14 brothas all got white girlfriends


I love my beautiful sistas...but I mean, there are not that many of yall at T-14's either so what is a brotha to do lol

Oblomov
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby Oblomov » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:47 pm

IDILL_E wrote:.kind
Pankun wrote:
TopLaw_Diva wrote:
T_Easy wrote:Thanks for all the replies.

I've always wondered about this, and it seems like black males are really basically unheard of in top 20 law schools.


I'm coming into Cornell c/o 2012 and so far my girlfriends and I have not spotted any incoming black males...at our Admitted Student Day it was all female.. of disappointing...we're still hoping some of the brothas slipped through our radar though... :wink:


sista please, T14 brothas all got white girlfriends


I love my beautiful sistas...but I mean, there are not that many of yall at T-14's either so what is a brotha to do lol


Stop being racist?

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kurama20
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby kurama20 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:50 pm

Stop being racist?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

And for the record there are a lot more black men interested in dating white women than vice versa......as TLS sentiments make so vividly clear. In addition he was implying that he does in fact date white women

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Jay-Electronica
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby Jay-Electronica » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:14 pm

kurama20 wrote:
Stop being racist?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

And for the record there are a lot more black men interested in dating white women than vice versa......as TLS sentiments make so vividly clear. In addition he was implying that he does in fact date white women


+1
I am an equal opp employer I do not discriminate. I Love women point blank period. I think it is pretty foolish to limit your options on basis of race etc etc

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kurama20
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby kurama20 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:20 pm

I swear TLS is this parallel universe where blacks and other minorities are racist bigots, and whites are being oppressed by the evils of affirmative action while struggling to make it in anti white America.

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keylimelove
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby keylimelove » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:23 pm

kurama20 wrote:I swear TLS is this parallel universe where blacks and other minorities are racist bigots, and whites are being oppressed by the evils of affirmative action while struggling to make it in anti white America.


+1,000,000,000

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zanda
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby zanda » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:29 pm

kurama20 wrote:
Stop being racist?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


+1

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Joe Toboni
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby Joe Toboni » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:03 pm

Other25BeforeYou wrote:Or go into rural parts of the northeast. I live about an hour from Ithaca, and grew up riding the school bus with high school members of the KKK. Yes, the Klan is still active in the northeast. Yes, we have plenty of racism up here.


Upstate NY is the start of the midwest thought. It would never happen in New Hampshire.

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biggamejames
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby biggamejames » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:25 pm

Joe Toboni wrote:
Other25BeforeYou wrote:Or go into rural parts of the northeast. I live about an hour from Ithaca, and grew up riding the school bus with high school members of the KKK. Yes, the Klan is still active in the northeast. Yes, we have plenty of racism up here.


Upstate NY is the start of the midwest thought. It would never happen in New Hampshire.

Only because people in New Hampshire have never seen or heard of black people.

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keylimelove
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby keylimelove » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:25 pm

biggamejames wrote:
Joe Toboni wrote:
Other25BeforeYou wrote:Or go into rural parts of the northeast. I live about an hour from Ithaca, and grew up riding the school bus with high school members of the KKK. Yes, the Klan is still active in the northeast. Yes, we have plenty of racism up here.


Upstate NY is the start of the midwest thought. It would never happen in New Hampshire.

Only because people in New Hampshire have never seen or heard of black people.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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vanwinkle
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Re: How rare are black American males in T20 law schools?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:35 pm

kurama20 wrote:I swear TLS is this parallel universe where blacks and other minorities are racist bigots, and whites are being oppressed by the evils of affirmative action while struggling to make it in anti white America.


TLS, or AM talk radio...




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