Law School Tiers

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ibinsocal
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Law School Tiers

Postby ibinsocal » Tue May 05, 2009 5:22 am

I am wondering how the law school tiers work. They are referenced a lot on this website and I don't really understand where one tier ends and the other begins. Any clarification would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Tue May 05, 2009 5:32 am

For better or worse, "law school tiers" literally refer to the rankings posted annually in USNWR (or US News and World Report)... we use a lot of acronyms in the law school world.

Tier 1 is schools ranked 1-50
Tier 2 is schools ranked 51-100
Tier 3 is schools 101-140 (but not ranked)
Tier 4 is schools 141-190 (also not ranked)

Those are the way most people regard them on this site. Some would argue that Tier 1 is schools 1-100 (as published in the USNWR), followed by Tier 3 and 4, making Tier 2 not exist effectively. But again, what I listed at the start is relevant to this site. Cheers,

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tome
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby tome » Tue May 05, 2009 11:12 am

Not to be confused with T14, which is the 14 schools that have ever been in the top ten schools since USNews started yearly rankings. (Although this is the agreed upon reason that a school is in the T14, they also happen to be the top forteen schools every single year.) Sometimes people refer to T3 and T6 as the top three schools and the top six schools, respectively. T3 is Yale, Harvard, Stanford and T6 is those guys + Columbia, Chicago, and NYU. Usually these groups are referred to as YHS and CCN. Generally the top three is considered a pretty solid top group, and the next three are pretty solid also. However, Berkeley seems to be forcing its way into the CCN group. A lot of people think that this has more to do with its gaming the rankings, as Berkeley has not really improved its reputation score--but this is not the place for that little spat.

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jigga-hjalmar
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby jigga-hjalmar » Tue May 05, 2009 11:17 am

HYS
CCN
BMVP
NDCG
15-50
TTT
TTTT

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doyleoil
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby doyleoil » Tue May 05, 2009 11:19 am

jigga-hjalmar wrote:HYS
CCN
BMVP
NDCG
15-50
TTT
TTTT


the only thing wrong with this is it implies ut is pretty much the same as smu, and ucla is pretty much the same as davis - i think people would dispute that

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jigga-hjalmar
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby jigga-hjalmar » Tue May 05, 2009 11:23 am

doyleoil wrote:
jigga-hjalmar wrote:HYS
CCN
BMVP
NDCG
15-50
TTT
TTTT


the only thing wrong with this is it implies ut is pretty much the same as smu, and ucla is pretty much the same as davis - i think people would dispute that


There's no doubt that there are better schools than others within the same tiers, but as far as opportunities are concerned, there is a clear break between tiers. Also, you still have to consider practicing in a relatively defined region anywhere outside of the T14, even if that is somewhat less so at UT or UCLA vs. SMU or Davis.

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Tue May 05, 2009 12:11 pm

jigga-hjalmar wrote:
doyleoil wrote:
jigga-hjalmar wrote:HYS
CCN
BMVP
NDCG
15-50
TTT
TTTT


the only thing wrong with this is it implies ut is pretty much the same as smu, and ucla is pretty much the same as davis - i think people would dispute that


There's no doubt that there are better schools than others within the same tiers, but as far as opportunities are concerned, there is a clear break between tiers. Also, you still have to consider practicing in a relatively defined region anywhere outside of the T14, even if that is somewhat less so at UT or UCLA vs. SMU or Davis.


While there is perhaps greater mobility, generally speaking, within the T14, I think this is sometimes over-emphasized. At Georgetown, for example, 75% of the class still ends up in the same greater area with 30-something percent in the South Atlantic, and 40-something percent in the Mid Atlantic. This is true of MOST schools.

But I will say that within the T14, it is largely due to so many people taking Biglaw jobs in DC and NY.

Yet if you look at a school like Tulane (not where I'm going btw), there is much broader and more national placement than at least four of the T14. Just food for thought.

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doyleoil
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby doyleoil » Tue May 05, 2009 12:14 pm

You Gotta Have Faith wrote:much broader and more national placement than at least four of the T14. Just food for thought.


much broader and more national for maybe the top 5% of the class, as compared to the bottom 5% of the class at those 4 of the t14

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Cavalier
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby Cavalier » Tue May 05, 2009 12:14 pm

Y
H
S
TTT

de5igual
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby de5igual » Tue May 05, 2009 12:22 pm

Cavalier wrote:Y
H
S
TTT


Credited

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jigga-hjalmar
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby jigga-hjalmar » Tue May 05, 2009 12:23 pm

f0bolous wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Y
H
S
TTT


Credited


+1

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue May 05, 2009 12:39 pm

Tulane does place better nationallly than 99% of the other law schools. This would include 6 of the T14. Do they make $160k in big law? Probably the top 30% in firms make more than $120k. But they place more people all over the US and nationally. Please don't listen to the people that have not done any research aside from re us news rankings. They are idiots. Thank you.

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doyleoil
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby doyleoil » Tue May 05, 2009 12:42 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Tulane does place better nationallly than 99% of the other law schools. This would include 6 of the T14. Do they make $160k in big law? Probably the top 30% in firms make more than $120k. But they place more people all over the US and nationally. Please don't listen to the people that have not done any research aside from re us news rankings. They are idiots. Thank you.


this is one of the most insanely idiotic things i've seen on tls in quite some time

the top 30% in firms = what? 5 people? 10 people?

place more people all over the us and nationally as contract doc reviewers? starbucks baristas?

02082010
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby 02082010 » Tue May 05, 2009 12:45 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Tulane does place better nationallly than 99% of the other law schools. This would include 6 of the T14. Do they make $160k in big law? Probably the top 30% in firms make more than $120k. But they place more people all over the US and nationally. Please don't listen to the people that have not done any research aside from re us news rankings. They are idiots. Thank you.


:shock:

Then I saw he was accepted to Tulane.

:roll:

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TheBoss
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby TheBoss » Tue May 05, 2009 12:53 pm

Cavalier wrote:Y
H
S
TTT


...so writes the guy with the Virginia Law avatar. What a douche response.

02082010
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby 02082010 » Tue May 05, 2009 12:57 pm

TheBoss wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Y
H
S
TTT


...so writes the guy with the Virginia Law avatar. What a douche response.


I guess it's tough to tell sarcasm through message boards.

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Cavalier
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby Cavalier » Tue May 05, 2009 12:58 pm

TheBoss wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Y
H
S
TTT


...so writes the guy with the Virginia Law avatar. What a douche response.

Do I need to write a disclaimer the next time I don't respond seriously. Considering I have a Virginia Law avatar (and my profile states that I will be attending there), anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size should easily be able to infer that the post was not serious.

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misteranthro
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby misteranthro » Tue May 05, 2009 1:06 pm

If T14 means all of the schools that have ever ranked in the top 14, then technically UCLA would be one too. Unfortunately, they haven't made it back there since 1987.

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TheBoss
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby TheBoss » Tue May 05, 2009 1:31 pm

Cavalier wrote:
TheBoss wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Y
H
S
TTT


...so writes the guy with the Virginia Law avatar. What a douche response.

Do I need to write a disclaimer the next time I don't respond seriously. Considering I have a Virginia Law avatar (and my profile states that I will be attending there), anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size should easily be able to infer that the post was not serious.


Sorry about that. More the result of a quick overreaction than my IQ being smaller than my foot. But at first glance, that didn't entirely seem like a sarcastic post. At least it wasn't easily detectable from the six letters you wrote. And no, I'm not in the habit of checking people's profiles before commenting on their posts. For all I knew, you're the guy who has bought into all this YHS or bust shit and upset that you're attending a great school like UVA. I'm sure you know there are plenty of those people roaming this board.

dempsey
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby dempsey » Tue May 05, 2009 1:33 pm

Aberzombie, Tulane is a strong school, but it is not competitive with the most elite schools, not remotely. I will be attending Tulane this fall, and feel very fortunate to be doing so. Regardless, if you truly believe that Tulane offers the prospects you have claimed here, you will be sorely disappointed with the reality.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue May 05, 2009 1:46 pm

Let me clarify something. Tulane is a decent enough school. I'm just saying it has better national placement (definition: graduates are spread over the entire united states). Duke essentially stays on the east coast, no? Cornell basically stays in NY, no? The University of California system school graduates pretty much all stay in California, no? (sans Berk) The University of Virginia grads basically stay on the east coast, no? NYU grads almost all stay in the northeast, no? Sure more of their graduates will receive "big law" positions; I never disputed that ( if you believe I did, see definition: retard). I am simply stating they place more of their graduates all over than the vast majority of all other law schools. According to the ABA 2009 guide, less than 23% stay in LA. About a third go to the northeast and 15% go to california. If that is not national, I am in need of enlightenment.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby Kohinoor » Tue May 05, 2009 1:49 pm

misteranthro wrote:If T14 means all of the schools that have ever ranked in the top 14, then technically UCLA would be one too. Unfortunately, they haven't made it back there since 1987.

T14 is all of the schools that have ever been in the T10.

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misteranthro
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby misteranthro » Tue May 05, 2009 1:52 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
misteranthro wrote:If T14 means all of the schools that have ever ranked in the top 14, then technically UCLA would be one too. Unfortunately, they haven't made it back there since 1987.

T14 is all of the schools that have ever been in the T10.


Ahhh. I see now.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby Kohinoor » Tue May 05, 2009 1:53 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Let me clarify something. Tulane is a decent enough school. I'm just saying it has better national placement (definition: graduates are spread over the entire united states). Duke essentially stays on the east coast, no? Cornell basically stays in NY, no? The University of California system school graduates pretty much all stay in California, no? (sans Berk) The University of Virginia grads basically stay on the east coast, no? NYU grads almost all stay in the northeast, no? Sure more of their graduates will receive "big law" positions; I never disputed that ( if you believe I did, see definition: retard). I am simply stating they place more of their graduates all over than the vast majority of all other law schools. According to the ABA 2009 guide, less than 23% stay in LA. About a third go to the northeast and 15% go to california. If that is not national, I am in need of enlightenment.

But Tulane has an unfair advantage by being in a state with no meaningful legal market.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Law School Tiers

Postby Kohinoor » Tue May 05, 2009 1:54 pm

TheBoss wrote:
Cavalier wrote:
TheBoss wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Y
H
S
TTT


...so writes the guy with the Virginia Law avatar. What a douche response.

Do I need to write a disclaimer the next time I don't respond seriously. Considering I have a Virginia Law avatar (and my profile states that I will be attending there), anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size should easily be able to infer that the post was not serious.


Sorry about that. More the result of a quick overreaction than my IQ being smaller than my foot. But at first glance, that didn't entirely seem like a sarcastic post. At least it wasn't easily detectable from the six letters you wrote. And no, I'm not in the habit of checking people's profiles before commenting on their posts. For all I knew, you're the guy who has bought into all this YHS or bust shit and upset that you're attending a great school like UVA. I'm sure you know there are plenty of those people roaming this board.

Actually, the YHS or bust people tend to be dedicated forum trolls that know they can prey on people like you.




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