Low Low Low

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
Johnnybgoode92

New
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Low Low Low

Postby Johnnybgoode92 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:37 pm

kitchen wrote:
JohnnieSockran wrote:
kitchen wrote:It seems you don't like dissenting opinions as when presented with the information about how my I plan to pay for school it was a little unsettling


What do I care about your opinions? Best of luck with all of your endeavors.

To answer what I can see is the only question, as others have already answered, you won't be able to come up with a school list that is meaningful until you have an official LSAT score much higher than 138.


Kitchen. Please look at my old posts about my school choice. I received criticism but went ahead and it has been tough but okay. You should look at my school since I had a 138 too.


Exactly my point I don't understand why you are so concerned with my finances.

Anyway, that still doesn't answer the question, but thank you Mr. Sockran.

I'll be sure to update when I am accepted.

thank you all

albanach

Gold
Posts: 1599
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:05 pm

Re: Low Low Low

Postby albanach » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:39 pm

kitchen wrote:Exactly my point I don't understand why you are so concerned with my finances.


Perhaps because your wrote:
kitchen wrote:I'm not worried about paying for school, although some money would be nice


That implies that you are not independently wealthy enough for cost not to be a consideration.

People raise cost as an issue because you have a terrible GPA and a terrible LSAT and law school isn't free. Even if someone else is paying, it's reasonable to consider whether it's worth taking six figures of another person's cash and spending it to attend a school where half the students don't become lawyers.

If all you want to hear is why your plan makes total sense, send emails to the admissions department at a handful of T-3 schools. They'll be more than happy to engage you in dialogue and I'm sure you'll find their thoughts on the matter pleasing.

Johnnybgoode92

New
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Low Low Low

Postby Johnnybgoode92 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:39 pm

Johnnybgoode92 wrote:
kitchen wrote:
JohnnieSockran wrote:
kitchen wrote:It seems you don't like dissenting opinions as when presented with the information about how my I plan to pay for school it was a little unsettling


What do I care about your opinions? Best of luck with all of your endeavors.

To answer what I can see is the only question, as others have already answered, you won't be able to come up with a school list that is meaningful until you have an official LSAT score much higher than 138.


Kitchen. Please look at my old posts about my school choice. I received criticism but went ahead and it has been tough but okay. You should look at my school since I had a 138 too.


Exactly my point I don't understand why you are so concerned with my finances.

Anyway, that still doesn't answer the question, but thank you Mr. Sockran.

I'll be sure to update when I am accepted.

thank you all


Meant to post: Kitchen. Please look at my old posts about my school choice. I received criticism but went ahead and it has been tough but okay. You should look at my school since I had a 138 too.

albanach

Gold
Posts: 1599
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:05 pm

Re: Low Low Low

Postby albanach » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:50 pm

Johnnybgoode92 wrote:Meant to post: Kitchen. Please look at my old posts about my school choice. I received criticism but went ahead and it has been tough but okay. You should look at my school since I had a 138 too.


Just to be clear here Johnny - you're still in school, yes?

Johnnybgoode92

New
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Low Low Low

Postby Johnnybgoode92 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:06 pm

albanach wrote:
Johnnybgoode92 wrote:Meant to post: Kitchen. Please look at my old posts about my school choice. I received criticism but went ahead and it has been tough but okay. You should look at my school since I had a 138 too.


Just to be clear here Johnny - you're still in school, yes?


I am. Won't say what year or part time v full time to protect anonymity.

User avatar
nealric

Moderator
Posts: 2900
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:53 am

Re: Low Low Low

Postby nealric » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:09 pm

albanach wrote:
Johnnybgoode92 wrote:Meant to post: Kitchen. Please look at my old posts about my school choice. I received criticism but went ahead and it has been tough but okay. You should look at my school since I had a 138 too.


Just to be clear here Johnny - you're still in school, yes?


Based on posting history, Johnny is a brand new 2L. So yeah, not really qualified to opine how things worked out. Come back after the student loan bills start coming in.

albanach

Gold
Posts: 1599
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:05 pm

Re: Low Low Low

Postby albanach » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:17 pm

I realize this is likely falling on deaf ears, but here's another interesting stat from the ABA re Southern University.

The class of 2015 had 214 graduates. After two years and four possible dates in which to take the bar, 109 has passed the exam.

Johnnybgoode92

New
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Low Low Low

Postby Johnnybgoode92 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:25 pm

nealric wrote:
albanach wrote:
Johnnybgoode92 wrote:Meant to post: Kitchen. Please look at my old posts about my school choice. I received criticism but went ahead and it has been tough but okay. You should look at my school since I had a 138 too.


Just to be clear here Johnny - you're still in school, yes?


Based on posting history, Johnny is a brand new 2L. So yeah, not really qualified to opine how things worked out. Come back after the student loan bills start coming in.


I had a gret 1L internship and a good shot for 2L summer jobs at decent firms.

JohnnieSockran

Bronze
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 1:07 pm

Re: Low Low Low

Postby JohnnieSockran » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:46 pm

Johnnybgoode92 wrote:
nealric wrote:
albanach wrote:
Johnnybgoode92 wrote:Meant to post: Kitchen. Please look at my old posts about my school choice. I received criticism but went ahead and it has been tough but okay. You should look at my school since I had a 138 too.


Just to be clear here Johnny - you're still in school, yes?


Based on posting history, Johnny is a brand new 2L. So yeah, not really qualified to opine how things worked out. Come back after the student loan bills start coming in.


I had a gret 1L internship and a good shot for 2L summer jobs at decent firms.


But it sounds like didn't land any of those jobs...

Johnnybgoode92

New
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Low Low Low

Postby Johnnybgoode92 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:52 pm

JohnnieSockran wrote:
Johnnybgoode92 wrote:
nealric wrote:
albanach wrote:
Johnnybgoode92 wrote:Meant to post: Kitchen. Please look at my old posts about my school choice. I received criticism but went ahead and it has been tough but okay. You should look at my school since I had a 138 too.


Just to be clear here Johnny - you're still in school, yes?


Based on posting history, Johnny is a brand new 2L. So yeah, not really qualified to opine how things worked out. Come back after the student loan bills start coming in.


I had a gret 1L internship and a good shot for 2L summer jobs at decent firms.


But it sounds like didn't land any of those jobs...


I'm still in the process. I'm not saying there are guarantees but it's not a guaranteed life ruiner like everyone is saying. Every school has some good outcomes.

albanach

Gold
Posts: 1599
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:05 pm

Re: Low Low Low

Postby albanach » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:51 pm

Johnnybgoode92 wrote:I'm still in the process. I'm not saying there are guarantees but it's not a guaranteed life ruiner like everyone is saying. Every school has some good outcomes.


Some people get rich at the casino. That doesn't make Las Vegas a sound investment strategy.

If you go to a school where 35% (Cooley) or almost 50% of graduates (Southern) haven't passed the bar two years after graduation then you're taking a huge gamble.

Johnnybgoode92

New
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Low Low Low

Postby Johnnybgoode92 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:33 pm

albanach wrote:
Johnnybgoode92 wrote:I'm still in the process. I'm not saying there are guarantees but it's not a guaranteed life ruiner like everyone is saying. Every school has some good outcomes.


Some people get rich at the casino. That doesn't make Las Vegas a sound investment strategy.

If you go to a school where 35% (Cooley) or almost 50% of graduates (Southern) haven't passed the bar two years after graduation then you're taking a huge gamble.


Yea but OP said tuition cost doesn't matter, he has a job lined up, and he'll work hard. It's not like paying roulette.

albanach

Gold
Posts: 1599
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:05 pm

Re: Low Low Low

Postby albanach » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:29 pm

Johnnybgoode92 wrote:
albanach wrote:
Johnnybgoode92 wrote:I'm still in the process. I'm not saying there are guarantees but it's not a guaranteed life ruiner like everyone is saying. Every school has some good outcomes.


Some people get rich at the casino. That doesn't make Las Vegas a sound investment strategy.

If you go to a school where 35% (Cooley) or almost 50% of graduates (Southern) haven't passed the bar two years after graduation then you're taking a huge gamble.


Yea but OP said tuition cost doesn't matter, he has a job lined up, and he'll work hard. It's not like paying roulette.


I'm not sure why you find this so difficult? Even if OP doesn't pay personally, someone does. It's reasonable to consider if that expenditure is worthwhile. Could those tuition dollars be used for another program that's better suited to op's position?

Secondly, op gives up three years of earning potential just by attending law school. Even at $35k/year that's a $100,000 lost opportunity which from OPs posts sounds like it might be covered by loans for cost of attendance.

Thirdly, as I pointed out, these schools have 1/3 to 1/2 of students not passing the bar at all. They never become a lawyer. OP can have all the offers of legal employment in the world and it won't help one iota of they can't pass the bar.

QContinuum

Moderator
Posts: 531
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:52 am

Re: Low Low Low

Postby QContinuum » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:24 pm

Johnnybgoode92 wrote:
albanach wrote:
Johnnybgoode92 wrote:I'm still in the process. I'm not saying there are guarantees but it's not a guaranteed life ruiner like everyone is saying. Every school has some good outcomes.


Some people get rich at the casino. That doesn't make Las Vegas a sound investment strategy.

If you go to a school where 35% (Cooley) or almost 50% of graduates (Southern) haven't passed the bar two years after graduation then you're taking a huge gamble.


Yea but OP said tuition cost doesn't matter, he has a job lined up, and he'll work hard. It's not like paying roulette.


Why are you assuming the other 50% of Southern graduates aren't working hard? Isn't it more reasonable to assume they are busting their rear ends trying to pass the bar, instead of assuming they simply decided to blow off the bar after spending 3 years and racking up six-figure debt loads to earn their J.D.?

"He'll work hard" is one of the most meaningless assertions I've ever heard in this context. I have seldom met a law student who was unwilling to work hard. No one wants to flunk out of law school, not pass the bar, or fail to land a legal job post-graduation.

User avatar
totesTheGoat

Moderator
Posts: 849
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:32 pm

Re: Low Low Low

Postby totesTheGoat » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:57 am

Johnnybgoode92 wrote:I'm still in the process. I'm not saying there are guarantees but it's not a guaranteed life ruiner like everyone is saying. Every school has some good outcomes.


Nobody says it's a "guaranteed life ruiner", you're just being defensive because people are trashing on your life decisions.

Whether or not it can be done has zero bearing on whether or not somebody should intentionally do it. It's one thing to ignorantly fall into such a bleak situation. It's completely different to ignore all of the helpful advice telling you that you're walking into a buzzsaw.

Hard work is irrelevant, hustling is irrelevant, the existence of some good outcomes is irrelevant. The main things that should matter to somebody going through the admissions process are 1) what are the direct and opportunity costs of me going to this school; 2) how likely am I to get a decent career outcome; and 3) when is the break even point for law school given the median salary?

For OP, the analysis for Southern is as follows:
1) $100k in lost wages + any cost of living that isn't covered by their benefactor
2) 50/50 in a vacuum, maybe 75/25 if the OP's connections are as good as they think they are
3) Let's say there's a 68% chance of OP getting a decent job (halfway between 50/50 and 75/25) at a median income of $75k (Southern doesn't release salary info, so I'm being generous... doubly so given that Southern places many of their employed grads in PI jobs). That's an expected value of $51k. Subtract out the $35k (being conservative and assuming that OP wouldn't have found a job making more than that over the next 5+ years if they skipped law school), law school would increase expected earnings by $16k. The opportunity cost of law school was $100k (again, being conservative by assuming every penny is covered by the benefactor and only giving up a $33k a year job), then the expected break even point for law school is 6.5 years.

That's too long. A good break even point is 3 years. 5 is stretching the upper limit on a good investment.

QContinuum

Moderator
Posts: 531
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:52 am

Re: Low Low Low

Postby QContinuum » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:13 pm

totesTheGoat wrote:For OP, the analysis for Southern is as follows:
1) $100k in lost wages + any cost of living that isn't covered by their benefactor
2) 50/50 in a vacuum, maybe 75/25 if the OP's connections are as good as they think they are
3) Let's say there's a 68% chance of OP getting a decent job (halfway between 50/50 and 75/25) at a median income of $75k (Southern doesn't release salary info, so I'm being generous... doubly so given that Southern places many of their employed grads in PI jobs). That's an expected value of $51k. Subtract out the $35k (being conservative and assuming that OP wouldn't have found a job making more than that over the next 5+ years if they skipped law school), law school would increase expected earnings by $16k. The opportunity cost of law school was $100k (again, being conservative by assuming every penny is covered by the benefactor and only giving up a $33k a year job), then the expected break even point for law school is 6.5 years.


Even the above analysis is too generous: It fails to consider that OP could do something else with his benefactor's money (invest it in an index fund, for example, or use it to acquire rent-generating property) instead of forking it over to Southern. We ought to factor that in unless OP's benefactor is some kind of eccentric who's stipulated that OP's only getting the cash if it's spent on law school. That would make the break-even point recede even further into the future.



Return to “Law School FAQ?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: nubcs and 7 guests