More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

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patentlaw
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby patentlaw » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:59 pm

I think if you maybe taxed the wealthy a little bit more, federal lrap could help people who are interested in pi work, but maybe come from middle class backgrounds and want to provide future generations what they had growing up. I don't think that's unreasonable.


Why a federal LRAP instead of higher salaries?

The Agitator
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby The Agitator » Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:05 pm

Your words make you sound future republican, who will benefit fun the tax breaks the wealthy get, while those who make less pay a higher proportion of their wages in taxes. As warren buffet stated, it is rather ludicrous that he, a billionaire pays less in taxes than his secretary does, when you consider the percentages each paid. I think if you maybe taxed the wealthy a little bit more, federal lrap could help people who are interested in pi work, but maybe come from middle class backgrounds and want to provide future generations what they had growing up. I don't think that's unreasonable.


You're making incorrect assumptions about my political leanings, and also trying to tie a bunch of unrelated issues together. My position is that debt forgiveness for someone making 80K is nothing but welfare for the rich.

I'm not asking for those who are struggling to pay. I'm asking for those who have exorbitant sums of money to put a few more drops in the tax collection bucket, so I don't have to necessarily become a biglaw cog and vote for presidents who will help me keep more of my bonus check.


Well, the whole point is that making 80K you don't need to become a biglaw cog. You can service your debt and still remain at a comfortable income, though maybe not as comfortable as those in your class who went into BigLaw. You're asking for those who make exorbitant sums of money to put more money in to support your desire to maintain an upper-class standard of living. Should they be obligated to hand over their money to prop up someone's upper-class lifestyle?

nellie06
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby nellie06 » Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:15 pm

This is a stupid argument. This is exactly why the government can't keep qualified lawyers in its ranks because the people who actually want to help are somehow 'greedy'. I mean seriously what is 80k BEFORE taxes in today's society!? The whole point of education is to better one's self, and to gain skills that make you a valuable part of the workforce. It's hard to equate being valued, when non-jd's working for the government make as much if not more than jd's, but in the private sector, a jd makes a great deal more.

I guess I should follow the playbook of most gov't attorneys. Make a crapload of money in the private sector, pay off my loans, and go into public interest work when it's affordable if I'm still interested in it at that point.

The Agitator
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby The Agitator » Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:22 pm

This is a stupid argument. This is exactly why the government can't keep qualified lawyers in its ranks because the people who actually want to help are somehow 'greedy'. I mean seriously what is 80k BEFORE taxes in today's society!?


Nellie, the average salary in the US is 36K. 80K before taxes in today's society is a lot of money. Do you really not see how this is greedy?

nellie06
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby nellie06 » Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:36 pm

Look, I'm not from a disadvantaged background, nor would anyone ever say my family is wealthy. I seriously doubt in a society where there are more billionaires and millionaires than ever, 80k would be considered 'greedy'. It's called 'middle-class'! And just realize, anyone making anywhere near six figures is going to have to pay the full cost of college for whatever kids they have, so what little savings my parents did have, my tuition helped to eat up because apparently it's 'greedy' for them to want a great education for their kids. Instead of taking on debt, we should go to state schools, and the rich should go to top schools, because they don't need anyone to help them foot the bill. That way regular people won't have to get aid. That solves the problem.

Oh and of course, the very few lucky kids who come out of the crappy school systems in inner cities, can go to school for free as a way of showing them there is another way besides chasing dreams of pro sports or music. Instead of actually fixing the problem, we should just throw money at the few who succeed under such adverse circumstances.

The Agitator
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby The Agitator » Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:48 pm

And just realize, anyone making anywhere near six figures is going to have to pay the full cost of college for whatever kids they have, so what little savings my parents did have, my tuition helped to eat up because apparently it's 'greedy' for them to want a great education for their kids. Instead of taking on debt, we should go to state schools, and the rich should go to top schools, because they don't need anyone to help them foot the bill. That way regular people won't have to get aid. That solves the problem.


I don't know what point you are trying to make.

otnemem
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby otnemem » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:06 am

I seriously doubt in a society where there are more billionaires and millionaires than ever, 80k would be considered 'greedy'. It's called 'middle-class'!


80k is certainly not "middle class" as that alone would put you in the top 25% of not just all individuals but households. The middle class (middle 1/3 of the country) for households in America is $30,000 to $62,500.

nellie06
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby nellie06 » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:19 am

Great whoopee let me go by a lambo in bright red. Law schools don't really intend for grads to go into public service from what I've seen, so I'm not going to bother trying to reinvent the wheel. Just go with the flow, get the bloated salary, and pay down my debt myself. I guess if i REALLY wanted to do public service, I'd pass up a top 25 for a tier 2 full scholarship. Guess wanting to actually have incredibly smart teachers and be in an intellectually challenging environment of a top law school, means my tradeoff is becoming another corporate lawyer.

It isnt like corporate lawyers don't make the switch to pi work down the road once they're uber successful. At least that way they can use the millions they make as lawyers to make sure that the tax payer doesn't pick up the tab for their education.

Darth Topher
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby Darth Topher » Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:18 am

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Ulfrekr
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby Ulfrekr » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:25 am

It's weird how she keeps harping on about the respective UGs she and her friend attended, as if that had anything to do with the issue whatsoever. Sounds like this person just didn't bother doing her research. It's amazing to me that people will drop $100k+ without having a damned good idea of what it's going to get them and what they need to do to make it worthwhile. Most people wouldn't buy a thousand dollar computer without comparing multiple reviews from independent sources, yet people will apparently pick a law school based on no info beyond what they can get from the school's brochures and website, and then complain that the school should have made more of an effort to dissuade them.

nellie06
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby nellie06 » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:41 am

Lmao. She went top 20, so i think she assumed its easy street after that. I guess tls wasn't around when she was in law school :P She probably thought, well i can screw around, not work hard and someone will pay me 100k plus. The only people who can get away with that are grads of top 10 schools, and even some of those miss the gravy train.

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Diana341
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby Diana341 » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:53 am

I thought I'd post this article from the NY Times, as it's related to this discussion. It mostly talks about college tuition and the enormity of debt for today's college graduates, but there is also some discussion of Law students having no choice but to go into corporate law in order to pay back their student loans. By saddling all law students with debt, regardless of their intended area of practice, we are forcing talented, bright individuals who would be interested in government positions toward Big Law.

http://select.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/op ... ref=slogin

I really admire Harvard for recently announcing its plans to help out students who plan on going into lower-paid legal positions. Why should a law student who plans on going to work for a Vault 100 firm, and a law student who plans on going into public defense, be responsible for paying the same tuition?

They shouldn't be.

prettypithy
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby prettypithy » Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:36 pm

nellie06 wrote:Lmao. She went top 20, so i think she assumed its easy street after that. I guess tls wasn't around when she was in law school :P She probably thought, well i can screw around, not work hard and someone will pay me 100k plus. The only people who can get away with that are grads of top 10 schools, and even some of those miss the gravy train.


Top 30. She keeps mentioning that she went to a Top 20 undergrad school to distract us from the fact that she signed up for a huge amount of debt at a non-T-25 law school (who in the top 25 would call it the top 30?), graduated at the bottom of her class and still expected to make market.

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SJaxWarriors
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby SJaxWarriors » Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:40 pm

Diana341 wrote:I really admire Harvard for recently announcing its plans to help out students who plan on going into lower-paid legal positions. Why should a law student who plans on going to work for a Vault 100 firm, and a law student who plans on going into public defense, be responsible for paying the same tuition?

They shouldn't be.


i agree with your assertion that it's a good thing for harvard to be helping out graduates who want to pursue PI jobs. however, i do think that law students who attend the same school, regardless of their career goals, should pay the same tuition. they're receiving the same education!

Darth Topher
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby Darth Topher » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:26 am

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cantwaitforuva
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby cantwaitforuva » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:55 am

edit
Last edited by cantwaitforuva on Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Agitator
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby The Agitator » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:02 pm

cantwaitforuva wrote:
80k is certainly not "middle class" as that alone would put you in the top 25% of not just all individuals but households. The middle class (middle 1/3 of the country) for households in America is $30,000 to $62,500.


I disagree. Depending on your circumstances $80 isn't really that much. You have to take into account the higher COL of the cities in which you'd be living. Plus the debt that law students have is generally massive, and will take a long time to pay of if you're only making $80, which effectively lowers your socio-economic status. My parents make over $100,000 in a market that has a decent COL, but they live paycheck to paycheck, haven't bought a car in over 10 years, and don't have the cash to own their own home all thanks to debt that they acquired over 10 years ago.


What does "depending on your circumstances" mean? What does "not all that much" mean? Are you saying that perhaps 80K doesn't provide you with the type of living that you would like? Fair enough. I can sympathize. But the issue is whether that means your debt should be assumed by someone else.

cantwaitforuva
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby cantwaitforuva » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:20 pm

edit
Last edited by cantwaitforuva on Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Player30
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby Player30 » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:20 am

You're in at UVA, so lucky for you you will probably be making much more than $80G.

Darth Topher
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby Darth Topher » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:48 pm

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anotherme
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby anotherme » Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:10 pm

wow that was definitely an interesting discussion....i hate the fact that im going to be in debt...but i really want to be a lawyer but will that be possible.

Darth Topher
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby Darth Topher » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:01 am

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madtownlawgirl
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby madtownlawgirl » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:47 am

Maybe if this person wasn't such a god-awful writer, she could get a job. IMO, that seems to be what is holding her back.

It reads like someone in high school wrote it.

AllanC
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby AllanC » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:00 pm

It's a sad reality but it differs not from most UnderGrad programs. People in humanities and liberal arts rarely use their degrees after University (unless...of course they go onto Grad school). This is why one should enroll in an Undergrad that will land them a job on its own merit.

That is one should take a degree (an undergrad) with practical application such as Engineering, mathematics, science, etc. If shit hits the fan you always have something to fall back on. If you take Political science, Art History, English or anything of the like and you fail in your legal aspirations you're unequivocally, irreducibly and utterly fucked.

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luckynumber8s
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Re: More sad stories from our friends at JD underground

Postby luckynumber8s » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:09 pm

AllanC wrote:It's a sad reality but it differs not from most UnderGrad programs. People in humanities and liberal arts rarely use their degrees after University (unless...of course they go onto Grad school). This is why one should enroll in an Undergrad that will land them a job on its own merit.

That is one should take a degree (an undergrad) with practical application such as Engineering, mathematics, science, etc. If shit hits the fan you always have something to fall back on. If you take Political science, Art History, English or anything of the like and you fail in your legal aspirations you're unequivocally, irreducibly and utterly fucked.


My buddy who is Goldman Sachs makes 200K+, 1 year out of undergrad, Major: Business, Finance, Investment Banking.

Shoulda been an I-banker.




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