Implications of GRE applicants for splitters?

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doglawin
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Implications of GRE applicants for splitters?

Postby doglawin » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:26 pm

So, I have scoured through TLS, Reddit, and 7sage's forums for some indication of what the effects of future GRE applicants might be on splitters. I understand there isn't enough data to support a concrete answer to this question, and that all that can be provided are opinions-- that said, I've seen the eloquent, informative, and indubitably helpful answers given by *a ver specific set* of TLS users, and I would appreciate if You could share your thoughts on this matter with me.

Initially, my intentions were to apply to law school this cycle, so I began studying for the LSAT back in June, and will sit for the LSAT, for the first time, in December. I'm very confident in my intellectual abilities, so please, I ask that you don't fill this thread with "come back when you have an LSAT score" comments, because if I don't score in the 170s in December I will in June, and regardless-- those remarks aren't helpful to me or many others with this same question.

To get to the point, I decided to work one more year because I truly like my job, and because it is right at the intersection of private and public work, I feel it will add to my narrative when my time to apply comes. However, delaying the application process for another cycle has lessened my hopes of being accepted to NU, my dreams school, or any comparatively prestigious law school, or T14.

In no way do I feel deterred from pursuing my dream by this, but I've found myself frequently returning to what effect the GRE acceptances will have on applicants such as myself.

TL;DR: if you could make an educated guess, what do you think will be the implications of GRE applicants on splitters for the next application cycle?

Con agradadecimiento,
Doglawin'

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icechicken
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Re: Implications of GRE applicants for splitters?

Postby icechicken » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:59 pm

It's basically pointless to speculate at this point because we have no way of knowing what guidance will come down from the ABA about standardized tests or how USNWR is going to grade GRE medians. Those two outcomes, along with a bunch of other stuff, are extremely consequential. What follows is basically science-fiction. I think this is the worst-case scenario for splitters:

- by taking on large numbers of GRE applicants, that also have high uGPAs, schools are able to simultaneously massage their standardized-test and GPA medians upward while keeping steady on other important goals like diversity.
- US News and/or the ABA allow law schools to cherrypick which board scores they report for any given applicant. This allows reverse splitters to take the GRE and, if they do better, far outperform their old LSAT scores. The LSAT no longer creates a hard ceiling for such applicants.
- Suddenly, for T6 schools, the supreme rankings bottleneck is not the ~1,000 people a year who score a 173 or better on the LSAT but the tiny number of people each year who have a 4.01 or better LSAC GPA.

In such a world, I think things are dire for, say, a 3.6/174, because the LSAT medians at HYSColumbia shoot up to 174/5 and Chicago keeps pace by setting their GPA floor somewhere above 3.9. They're no longer adding value to any of those schools' admissions.

Sky-high LSAT scores (176 or better - the top 2/5ths of the top 1%) are still going to command a premium, because such a small number exist - in fact, they might even become more important in a landscape where HYSC are trying to push their medians even higher than they are now, because the GRE doesn't really have the granularity to differentiate people at that level. But marginal cases like the 3.6/174 I described earlier are out of luck; their comparative advantage has been eroded by the sudden existence of this whole new population of "99th-percentile" test-takers. Their prospects go from "in at Columbia/NYU, maybe at Chicago or Harvard" to "you'll probably find a seat in the T13 but Columbia is a moonshot".

Over 500,000 people took the GRE last year, meaning there are 5,000 in the top percentile by definition. If only a tenth of that population decides to apply to law school because why not, the number of 99ers expands from around 1,000 to 1,500. There are only about 3700 1L seats available in the T13.

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Mikey
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Re: Implications of GRE applicants for splitters?

Postby Mikey » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:42 pm

I don't think anyone can answer fully any questions about what implications the GRE will have at this point. Everything rn will just be speculations. We just have to see what happens from this cycle.

People have said though that schools will accept people with high GRE's and very high GPA's. Who knows if there is any truth to this because again, rn there are only speculations.

doglawin
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Re: Implications of GRE applicants for splitters?

Postby doglawin » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:57 pm

ice chicken wrote:...I think this is the worst-case scenario for splitters...


Thank you for replying!

In all honesty, this is exactly what I was hoping for-- a worst-case scenario perspective-- and naturally, it solely addresses the quantitative part of the application. We'll have to see how it plays out, my best bet is to prepare get a 175+, and to prepare an immaculate application over the next year.

Gracias!

doglawin
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Re: Implications of GRE applicants for splitters?

Postby doglawin » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:12 pm

Mikey wrote:I don't think anyone can answer fully any questions about what implications the GRE will have at this point. Everything rn will just be speculations. We just have to see what happens from this cycle.

People have said though that schools will accept people with high GRE's and very high GPA's. Who knows if there is any truth to this because again, rn there are only speculations.


Yeah, I've noticed that the general consensus is that it will serve as a way to weed out splitters, and increase their GPA stats. However, I wonder how much of a commitment to studying law is shown by not taking the LSAT. As an adcomm, I would think that choosing to sit for the LSAT shows a determination to attend law school, and that GRE applicants are taking advantage of an opportune situation. While this may not hold across every single applicant, those that have only taken the LSAT show their commitment to attending law school-- or at least I'm hoping that adcomms will see it in this light.

sparkytrainer
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Re: Implications of GRE applicants for splitters?

Postby sparkytrainer » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:31 pm

doglawin wrote:
Mikey wrote:I don't think anyone can answer fully any questions about what implications the GRE will have at this point. Everything rn will just be speculations. We just have to see what happens from this cycle.

People have said though that schools will accept people with high GRE's and very high GPA's. Who knows if there is any truth to this because again, rn there are only speculations.


Yeah, I've noticed that the general consensus is that it will serve as a way to weed out splitters, and increase their GPA stats. However, I wonder how much of a commitment to studying law is shown by not taking the LSAT. As an adcomm, I would think that choosing to sit for the LSAT shows a determination to attend law school, and that GRE applicants are taking advantage of an opportune situation. While this may not hold across every single applicant, those that have only taken the LSAT show their commitment to attending law school-- or at least I'm hoping that adcomms will see it in this light.


Maybe initially, but I believe this will change once there are many more GRE applicants. If I could go back in time, I would only take the GRE. Most people who went to grad school before law school already have a GRE score as well.

Make no mistake, this shift is to increase the applicant pool and buy some high gpas. It will hurt splitters.

doglawin
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:31 pm

Re: Implications of GRE applicants for splitters?

Postby doglawin » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:26 pm

sparkytrainer wrote:
Maybe initially, but I believe this will change once there are many more GRE applicants. If I could go back in time, I would only take the GRE. Most people who went to grad school before law school already have a GRE score as well.

Make no mistake, this shift is to increase the applicant pool and buy some high gpas. It will hurt splitters.


Agreed.

I want to maximize my chances of being accepted to a T14, that's why I'm taking one year to get the highest possible LSAT and apply in early September and no later, I agree that as the number of GRE applicants increase my chances and that of other splitters will dwindle.




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