Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

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lymenheimer
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby lymenheimer » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:21 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:You realize that DV victims frequently show up with their spouses and don't want to testify against them and want the charges to be dropped, right?


Yes I understand that but this isn't someone under my spell for years nor did she have any physcical signs of abuse. The psychological signs in that situation could have been misperceived due to her being reluctant to testify. But she wasn't reluctant, she was only telling the truth.

The point is that the court/etc. didn't know that.

I'm now convinced this poster is a child. He is struggling with the same psychological development milestones that children do, when they don't realize that people don't share their same experiences. Littered throughout these posts.

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future liT1g4tor
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby future liT1g4tor » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:44 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote: The point is that the court/etc. didn't know that.

I know. I had to take this L a long time ago. I was just story-telling because I brought it up.

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future liT1g4tor
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby future liT1g4tor » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:51 pm

lymenheimer wrote: I'm now convinced this poster is a child. He is struggling with the same psychological development milestones that children do, when they don't realize that people don't share their same experiences. Littered throughout these posts.


Reiterate this.

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lymenheimer
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby lymenheimer » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:38 pm

future liT1g4tor wrote:
lymenheimer wrote: I'm now convinced this poster is a child. He is struggling with the same psychological development milestones that children do, when they don't realize that people don't share their same experiences. Littered throughout these posts.

Reiterate this.

weird request...I'm now convinced this poster is a child. He is struggling with the same psychological development milestones that children do, when they don't realize that people don't share their same experiences. Littered throughout these posts.

cavalier1138
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:28 am

lymenheimer wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote:
lymenheimer wrote: I'm now convinced this poster is a child. He is struggling with the same psychological development milestones that children do, when they don't realize that people don't share their same experiences. Littered throughout these posts.

Reiterate this.

weird request...I'm now convinced this poster is a child. He is struggling with the same psychological development milestones that children do, when they don't realize that people don't share their same experiences. Littered throughout these posts.


Can I help with reiterating?

HonestAdvice
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby HonestAdvice » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:55 am

Litigator - Having some experience with the C&F process I can say this --

1.) You want to characterize all these charges as a single episode - a bad stretch for you, which it seems like it was.

2.) Even if there were inequities or violation of process in your trial, it's probably best to drop anything you can't prove. The examiners will see it as a waste of their time, and also as evidence you're not rehabilitated. The question should be if you're right about everything, where would that get you? You'd have many of the same concerns.

3.)The issues are two-fold. You're not becoming a priest so it's not only a question of whether you're a good guy but whether you have good judgment. Whether you took meth or didn't, letting anything resembling it show up in your system shows a tendency to harm your reputation. The motivation behind C&F was not originally to protect the public - it was to protect the profession's reputation.

4.) t's not unsurmountable and I don't necessarily know what a C&F lawyer can tell you at this stage of the game. You'll hear this:

"You can fail outright, be delayed or can get sworn in. The reviewer has significant discretion". I'm sure that in every state, some people have passed and some have failed based on a very similar fact pattern, which comes back to the DWI-DV distinction. It doesn't matter how thee law sees it. It matters how the reviewer sees you.

5.) DWI's get forgiven, because they're easy for reviewers to empathize with. Everyone's had a few too many, and although most don't get into cars, you're with them for the first part. With DV, most of these fights are motivated by anger and anger induced violence is not that common.

6.) Your wife may have been a crazy bitch, and now say that you never hit her. The issue is that every abuser says the victim was a crazy bitch, and many abuse victims renounce their accusation. If you're not a real abuser, then the real abusers essentially fucked you but arguing this without hard evidence is a losing effort. Just take responsibility. If that requires lying, lie and take responsibility.

You basically need the reviewer to say, "well, he made mistakes but is no longer a concern," Harping on the past does not get you here.

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future liT1g4tor
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby future liT1g4tor » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:37 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote:
lymenheimer wrote: I'm now convinced this poster is a child. He is struggling with the same psychological development milestones that children do, when they don't realize that people don't share their same experiences. Littered throughout these posts.

Reiterate this.

weird request...I'm now convinced this poster is a child. He is struggling with the same psychological development milestones that children do, when they don't realize that people don't share their same experiences. Littered throughout these posts.


Can I help with reiterating?


Yes you can. I can also, I get where he/she is coming from with what they are saying. However, writing every post like he/she has a playground crush on me doesn't really prove their point.

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future liT1g4tor
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby future liT1g4tor » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:53 am

HonestAdvice wrote:Litigator - Having some experience with the C&F process I can say this --

1.) You want to characterize all these charges as a single episode - a bad stretch for you, which it seems like it was.

2.) Even if there were inequities or violation of process in your trial, it's probably best to drop anything you can't prove. The examiners will see it as a waste of their time, and also as evidence you're not rehabilitated. The question should be if you're right about everything, where would that get you? You'd have many of the same concerns.

3.)The issues are two-fold. You're not becoming a priest so it's not only a question of whether you're a good guy but whether you have good judgment. Whether you took meth or didn't, letting anything resembling it show up in your system shows a tendency to harm your reputation. The motivation behind C&F was not originally to protect the public - it was to protect the profession's reputation.

4.) t's not unsurmountable and I don't necessarily know what a C&F lawyer can tell you at this stage of the game. You'll hear this:

"You can fail outright, be delayed or can get sworn in. The reviewer has significant discretion". I'm sure that in every state, some people have passed and some have failed based on a very similar fact pattern, which comes back to the DWI-DV distinction. It doesn't matter how thee law sees it. It matters how the reviewer sees you.

5.) DWI's get forgiven, because they're easy for reviewers to empathize with. Everyone's had a few too many, and although most don't get into cars, you're with them for the first part. With DV, most of these fights are motivated by anger and anger induced violence is not that common.

6.) Your wife may have been a crazy bitch, and now say that you never hit her. The issue is that every abuser says the victim was a crazy bitch, and many abuse victims renounce their accusation. If you're not a real abuser, then the real abusers essentially fucked you but arguing this without hard evidence is a losing effort. Just take responsibility. If that requires lying, lie and take responsibility.

You basically need the reviewer to say, "well, he made mistakes but is no longer a concern," Harping on the past does not get you here.


So it's basically go to law school on a bet. I'll bet on myself. They can be titanium I make them fold.

Everyone has had a few too many but may have not gotten in a car, right? So everyone has had a fight with their spouse although most dont have a DV conviction they may empathize with the first part?

cavalier1138
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:08 am

future liT1g4tor wrote:So it's basically go to law school on a bet. I'll bet on myself. They can be titanium I make them fold.

Everyone has had a few too many but may have not gotten in a car, right? So everyone has had a fight with their spouse although most dont have a DV conviction they may empathize with the first part?


...no.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:49 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote:So it's basically go to law school on a bet. I'll bet on myself. They can be titanium I make them fold.

Everyone has had a few too many but may have not gotten in a car, right? So everyone has had a fight with their spouse although most dont have a DV conviction they may empathize with the first part?


...no.

Totally agree.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:37 am

future liT1g4tor wrote:
Everyone has had a few too many but may have not gotten in a car, right? So everyone has had a fight with their spouse although most dont have a DV conviction they may empathize with the first part?


Arguing with your spouse/being tipsy are probably near-universal experiences, but I don't see why that would make you more sympathetic to DV/drunk driving.

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future liT1g4tor
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby future liT1g4tor » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:01 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote:So it's basically go to law school on a bet. I'll bet on myself. They can be titanium I make them fold.

Everyone has had a few too many but may have not gotten in a car, right? So everyone has had a fight with their spouse although most dont have a DV conviction they may empathize with the first part?


...no.

Totally agree.


But do I get cool points for thinking like a lawyer?

Around the time I will sit before the bar a decade will have passed since this conviction occurred. In addition I haven't so much as got a traffic ticket since. While I can't say the same for traffic tickets I will not get another conviction let alone have charges brought up against me.

I know it all comes down to the individual and every case is circumstantial but will it really be such a huge factor in deciding if I am qualified or not? If I am granted a pardon it'll still be addressed, right?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:15 pm

What about that was thinking like a lawyer?

In any case, the longer the time since the offense, the less weight it has/the more you can show you've changed, as long as you present it well (I thought HonestAdvice's post was actually really on point on this). But yes, if you get pardoned it will still have to come up (even if it was expunged, in some states at least).

HarvardHopeful95
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby HarvardHopeful95 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:32 pm

HonestAdvice wrote:OP has much bigger issues. There's a major inconsistency on their app while Litigator's issues can be chalked up to kids being kids. What teenager hasn't goofed around? I pranked called, you cut school, Litigator did meth and beat women. Just kids being kids.


I don't know if I would call it a big issue at this point. The admissions office accepted the new resume along with my explanation with no questions.

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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby HarvardHopeful95 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:36 pm

Also, not sure how this post got so badly derailed. I've never had so much as a speeding ticket but litigator decided to compare their situation to mine. It's a reach.
Last edited by HarvardHopeful95 on Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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guynourmin
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby guynourmin » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:59 pm

HarvardHopeful95 wrote:
HonestAdvice wrote:OP has much bigger issues. There's a major inconsistency on their app while Litigator's issues can be chalked up to kids being kids. What teenager hasn't goofed around? I pranked called, you cut school, Litigator did meth and beat women. Just kids being kids.


I don't know if I would call it a big issue at this point. The admissions office accepted the new resume along with my explanation with no questions.

this was sarcasm

HarvardHopeful95
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby HarvardHopeful95 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:05 pm

guybourdin wrote:
HarvardHopeful95 wrote:
HonestAdvice wrote:OP has much bigger issues. There's a major inconsistency on their app while Litigator's issues can be chalked up to kids being kids. What teenager hasn't goofed around? I pranked called, you cut school, Litigator did meth and beat women. Just kids being kids.


I don't know if I would call it a big issue at this point. The admissions office accepted the new resume along with my explanation with no questions.

this was sarcasm


Sorry dude. I'm a 0L discussing C&F issues. I'm way out of my league and anxious about everything lol My bad

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guynourmin
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby guynourmin » Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:12 pm

HarvardHopeful95 wrote:
guybourdin wrote:
HarvardHopeful95 wrote:
HonestAdvice wrote:OP has much bigger issues. There's a major inconsistency on their app while Litigator's issues can be chalked up to kids being kids. What teenager hasn't goofed around? I pranked called, you cut school, Litigator did meth and beat women. Just kids being kids.


I don't know if I would call it a big issue at this point. The admissions office accepted the new resume along with my explanation with no questions.

this was sarcasm


Sorry dude. I'm a 0L discussing C&F issues. I'm way out of my league and anxious about everything lol My bad

no need to apologize, I was just letting you know! I am glad you were able to update your resume with the school.

ClubberLang
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby ClubberLang » Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:32 pm

future liT1g4tor wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote:So it's basically go to law school on a bet. I'll bet on myself. They can be titanium I make them fold.

Everyone has had a few too many but may have not gotten in a car, right? So everyone has had a fight with their spouse although most dont have a DV conviction they may empathize with the first part?


...no.

Totally agree.


But do I get cool points for thinking like a lawyer?

Around the time I will sit before the bar a decade will have passed since this conviction occurred. In addition I haven't so much as got a traffic ticket since. While I can't say the same for traffic tickets I will not get another conviction let alone have charges brought up against me.

I know it all comes down to the individual and every case is circumstantial but will it really be such a huge factor in deciding if I am qualified or not? If I am granted a pardon it'll still be addressed, right?


Yes, it will be a huge factor. No, you do not get cool points for thinking like a lawyer because you haven't done that. As far as reprehensible convictions go, wife beating is at or near the top. I can't make sense of your story, but it sounds like you also failed a drug test when out on bail. So even if, as you say, every case is circumstantial, your circumstances are not favorable. Going to law school would be a huge gamble because you will almost certainly have C&F difficulty.

Sometimes I think people go a bit overboard on the "hire a C&F attorney" advice, but you need to do that before you entertain any notion of attending law school.

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future liT1g4tor
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby future liT1g4tor » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:17 pm

ClubberLang wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote:So it's basically go to law school on a bet. I'll bet on myself. They can be titanium I make them fold.

Everyone has had a few too many but may have not gotten in a car, right? So everyone has had a fight with their spouse although most dont have a DV conviction they may empathize with the first part?


...no.

Totally agree.


But do I get cool points for thinking like a lawyer?

Around the time I will sit before the bar a decade will have passed since this conviction occurred. In addition I haven't so much as got a traffic ticket since. While I can't say the same for traffic tickets I will not get another conviction let alone have charges brought up against me.

I know it all comes down to the individual and every case is circumstantial but will it really be such a huge factor in deciding if I am qualified or not? If I am granted a pardon it'll still be addressed, right?


Yes, it will be a huge factor. No, you do not get cool points for thinking like a lawyer because you haven't done that. As far as reprehensible convictions go, wife beating is at or near the top. I can't make sense of your story, but it sounds like you also failed a drug test when out on bail. So even if, as you say, every case is circumstantial, your circumstances are not favorable. Going to law school would be a huge gamble because you will almost certainly have C&F difficulty.

Sometimes I think people go a bit overboard on the "hire a C&F attorney" advice, but you need to do that before you entertain any notion of attending law school.


Right but my case may sound much worse than it is. It's the lowest possible DV charge. It's not a crime of moral turpitude that's why it doesn't stop you from getting United States citizenship.

My case doesn't mention that I did any striking or any form of outright violence. Just the bare minimum for the state to file charges, that you are in an altercation with a spouse, immediate family member, etc. It was only brought up because my neighbor lied in the police report because she was jealous of my wife I'm not going to get into why.

I'm still married to my same wife and she is on medication now and I have proof that she suffers from BPD, which I wasn't really understanding of back then. Literally what my neighbor said (that I was holding her from the back for like 20 secs) is a proven mechanism to cope with the beginning of an episode.

" Cows are squeezed tightly in a chute before they're slaughtered. The chute applies intense pressure, resulting in decreased pulse rate, metabolic rate and muscle tone. It calms them down" Virginia Dixon, Grey's Anatomy, lol. As the Dr. Is being held by another to calm her down.

When my wife saw that episode she even showed me that it would work and I had the right to do it when she was flipping the f out. Even though we were arguing, it was due to her having an episode.

I wasn't even aware of the police being called so I wasn't there to argue the allegations, neither was my wife.

Unfortunately the medication she was on was not working and being a dancer she would occasionaly drink at her job further adding insult to injury.

Thankfully she is on new medication that actually works and she is actually aware of what she suffers from. Back then she was in the denial stage. We haven't had drama in years.

If you bare to see the relevance of why I am further explaining my situatuon, there is none. However what I am trying to portray is that there was also a lot of positivity associated with what I went through, what we went through.

Therefore, I am not going to let it stand in the way of my aspirations in life, like becoming an attorney. It stripped me of my constitutional right to own firearms. I won't let it strip me of my liberty of doing whatever the h*ll I want in life. I might be halfway trolling on the last sentence but it's real. I'm just trying to gather as much information as I can.

Plus a law degree without passing the bar will not be useless to me. For example you know how my family is in the construction business.

Having a law degree replaces three years of construction work and my bachelor's replaces one or two. Thus exceeding or equaling the four year requirement to have a contractor's license which will easily make me 250k a year.

So three years of law school will replace three years of working as a foreman. Although I have worked construction and helped with the business side; I cant officially prove I worked as a foreman let alone four years. Plus I will handle the business side not the construction side so I have no interest of actually obtaining the four years of working as a foreman.

The California contractor's exam is mostly on Business & Law, with a limited amount of trade specific questions which happen to be more on regulations anyway.

The law school opportunity cost is quite the opposite in my situation, it's favorable. Plus everyday I am craving to go to Law School.

My cousin is a lawyer in Romania with her practice based on helping with foreign investments, etc. My family has a large company in Romania, too. In addition to having an import/export company in Germany & in Belgium. If I am not able to practice American Law in these countries I can definitely advise on such matters.

What do you think? Still a no go? It will take me 6 to 8 years to get the four years of foreman experience. Even if I were to attend law school knowing I won't be a lawyer I may do it for that exact reason. However I really want to become a lawyer.

How about law schools? We haven't really touched this subject. Yes I will have a c&f attorney consult with me prior to applying but I still value your opinions.

cavalier1138
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:29 pm

Wow.

Barrred
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby Barrred » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:53 pm

OP, just print out all of your responses in this thread, and include them in your law school and moral character applications. I'm sure you'll go far.

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TooMuchTuna
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby TooMuchTuna » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:11 pm

So glad I stayed committed to following this thread.

I'm no expert on dancing, but I don't THINK ballet dancers or actresses in musicals drink at work, soooo I'm guessing your wife is/was a stripper. As such, it's readily apparent why your neighbor would be jealous of her. That's an industry that most women would give anything to break into.

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Slippin' Jimmy
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby Slippin' Jimmy » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:25 pm

future liT1g4tor wrote:
ClubberLang wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote:So it's basically go to law school on a bet. I'll bet on myself. They can be titanium I make them fold.

Everyone has had a few too many but may have not gotten in a car, right? So everyone has had a fight with their spouse although most dont have a DV conviction they may empathize with the first part?


...no.

Totally agree.


But do I get cool points for thinking like a lawyer?

Around the time I will sit before the bar a decade will have passed since this conviction occurred. In addition I haven't so much as got a traffic ticket since. While I can't say the same for traffic tickets I will not get another conviction let alone have charges brought up against me.

I know it all comes down to the individual and every case is circumstantial but will it really be such a huge factor in deciding if I am qualified or not? If I am granted a pardon it'll still be addressed, right?


Yes, it will be a huge factor. No, you do not get cool points for thinking like a lawyer because you haven't done that. As far as reprehensible convictions go, wife beating is at or near the top. I can't make sense of your story, but it sounds like you also failed a drug test when out on bail. So even if, as you say, every case is circumstantial, your circumstances are not favorable. Going to law school would be a huge gamble because you will almost certainly have C&F difficulty.

Sometimes I think people go a bit overboard on the "hire a C&F attorney" advice, but you need to do that before you entertain any notion of attending law school.


Right but my case may sound much worse than it is. It's the lowest possible DV charge. It's not a crime of moral turpitude that's why it doesn't stop you from getting United States citizenship.

My case doesn't mention that I did any striking or any form of outright violence. Just the bare minimum for the state to file charges, that you are in an altercation with a spouse, immediate family member, etc. It was only brought up because my neighbor lied in the police report because she was jealous of my wife I'm not going to get into why.

I'm still married to my same wife and she is on medication now and I have proof that she suffers from BPD, which I wasn't really understanding of back then. Literally what my neighbor said (that I was holding her from the back for like 20 secs) is a proven mechanism to cope with the beginning of an episode.

" Cows are squeezed tightly in a chute before they're slaughtered. The chute applies intense pressure, resulting in decreased pulse rate, metabolic rate and muscle tone. It calms them down" Virginia Dixon, Grey's Anatomy, lol. As the Dr. Is being held by another to calm her down.

When my wife saw that episode she even showed me that it would work and I had the right to do it when she was flipping the f out. Even though we were arguing, it was due to her having an episode.

I wasn't even aware of the police being called so I wasn't there to argue the allegations, neither was my wife.

Unfortunately the medication she was on was not working and being a dancer she would occasionaly drink at her job further adding insult to injury.

Thankfully she is on new medication that actually works and she is actually aware of what she suffers from. Back then she was in the denial stage. We haven't had drama in years.

If you bare to see the relevance of why I am further explaining my situatuon, there is none. However what I am trying to portray is that there was also a lot of positivity associated with what I went through, what we went through.

Therefore, I am not going to let it stand in the way of my aspirations in life, like becoming an attorney. It stripped me of my constitutional right to own firearms. I won't let it strip me of my liberty of doing whatever the h*ll I want in life. I might be halfway trolling on the last sentence but it's real. I'm just trying to gather as much information as I can.

Plus a law degree without passing the bar will not be useless to me. For example you know how my family is in the construction business.

Having a law degree replaces three years of construction work and my bachelor's replaces one or two. Thus exceeding or equaling the four year requirement to have a contractor's license which will easily make me 250k a year.

So three years of law school will replace three years of working as a foreman. Although I have worked construction and helped with the business side; I cant officially prove I worked as a foreman let alone four years. Plus I will handle the business side not the construction side so I have no interest of actually obtaining the four years of working as a foreman.

The California contractor's exam is mostly on Business & Law, with a limited amount of trade specific questions which happen to be more on regulations anyway.

The law school opportunity cost is quite the opposite in my situation, it's favorable. Plus everyday I am craving to go to Law School.

My cousin is a lawyer in Romania with her practice based on helping with foreign investments, etc. My family has a large company in Romania, too. In addition to having an import/export company in Germany & in Belgium. If I am not able to practice American Law in these countries I can definitely advise on such matters.

What do you think? Still a no go? It will take me 6 to 8 years to get the four years of foreman experience. Even if I were to attend law school knowing I won't be a lawyer I may do it for that exact reason. However I really want to become a lawyer.

How about law schools? We haven't really touched this subject. Yes I will have a c&f attorney consult with me prior to applying but I still value your opinions.


No way this guy is real.

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: Will I have an issue passing the bar C&F?

Postby Capitol_Idea » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:40 pm

I'm locking this.

Future Litigator: Calm your ass and don't hijack any more threads with your nonsense. This is your warning.

Others: Poking someone who's being an ass is generally fair sport (I've done it too), but when A. the thread has completely devolved into this and the original purpose of the thread is gone, and B. some of the shit said in here is pushing or over the line, I'm locking it.




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