Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

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MangoPapi
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Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

Postby MangoPapi » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:30 pm

Hey everyone,

I know this topic has been beat to death but I'd like to revive it just this once so bear with me. Just how hard is it for being top 25% in Law School compared to undergrad? I've heard how the finals are 100% and how there's a strict bell curve and it's graded blind but that's really no different from how my undergraduate institution grades for my program. My program has roughly over 500 students, the finals are often 60% with a 40% midterm (a few courses are 80% final), everything's graded blind, there's a strict bellcurve where each section can only have a certain number of A's, etc. Obviously the content and the vast quantity of material you learn in Law School will be greater which amplifies the difficulty of being top 25% but in terms of the process, is it safe to assume that given how my undergraduate institute does things, I'd be ready more or less in terms of how law school operates?

grades??
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Re: Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

Postby grades?? » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:36 pm

What you aren't considering is at any of the t13 schools, a law school class is made up by all top 10% kids from their undergrad competing against each other. Now, half will be below median. They are nowhere near the same.

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zot1
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Re: Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

Postby zot1 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:37 pm

It'll still be different, and you will still have very little control over it.

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jkpolk
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Re: Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

Postby jkpolk » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:38 pm

MangoPapi wrote:Hey everyone,

I know this topic has been beat to death but I'd like to revive it just this once so bear with me. Just how hard is it for being top 25% in Law School compared to undergrad? I've heard how the finals are 100% and how there's a strict bell curve and it's graded blind but that's really no different from how my undergraduate institution grades for my program. My program has roughly over 500 students, the finals are often 60% with a 40% midterm (a few courses are 80% final), everything's graded blind, there's a strict bellcurve where each section can only have a certain number of A's, etc. Obviously the content and the vast quantity of material you learn in Law School will be greater which amplifies the difficulty of being top 25% but in terms of the process, is it safe to assume that given how my undergraduate institute does things, I'd be ready more or less in terms of how law school operates?


It is different (but also not). The "substance" of law school is largely learning a process (as opposed to undergrad, which is, generally speaking, about learning facts). You learn HOW federal courts adjudicate shit, and then discuss an ambiguous case based on the HOW you learned (so you won't have learned the answers but you'll have learned the process). That's not always the case, sometimes it is important to know what the facts of some random bullshit case were, but that's the exception.

Some people who are good at cramming facts in UG will struggle at the small amount of original thought that law school requires. But yet again, the amount of original thought required for LS is vastly overrated, and perhaps not required at all, strictly speaking, so I would say more similar to UG than commonly believed (if you are a thinking person). Top 25% UG says nothing, you might be a shit head. But if you were #1 at like, I don't know, Michigan UG, you'll probably, but not certainly, be fine in law school.
Last edited by jkpolk on Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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de minimis
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Re: Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

Postby de minimis » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:38 pm

Similar, except filter out 425 of those 500 people in your class and you're left competing with those that are left on the same curve.

MangoPapi
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Re: Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

Postby MangoPapi » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:20 pm

I don't want to come off as ignorant or anything so correct me if I'm wrong with my assumptions but my UG program only accepts 10% of people who apply to it and about 1000 students apply for it. If I'm top 25% in my program right now, can I assume that my transition towards LS will be easier compared to other students who's UG hasn't been as rigourous or rather, as similar to how LS operates?

I understand what I'm asking is quite silly since none of you know me personally so it's hard for you to voice your opinion given such limited facts about me but I was just curious because browsing through these threads and talking to fellow prospective law students and 1/2LS, it seems to me that (generalizing here) a lot of law students went through a pretty easy non-specialized honours UG and are used to getting A's for all their courses. I'm the complete opposite and upon conversing with these students and reading through some threads on here, I realized that my UG has prepared me in a way for LS without me even realizing it and I was wondering if this will give me a slight advantage over my peers in LS, if it will really help me stand out and help me perform well since I'm used to the rigours process of LS, or, would not give me any advantage whatsoever.

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zot1
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Re: Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

Postby zot1 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:33 pm

Bro, this depends on the school. You go to a top 50 school, you'll be competing with the best students in the country. If you don't, you won't.

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OneHandedEconomist
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Re: Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

Postby OneHandedEconomist » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:37 pm

OP, clearly you'll be #1 in your class. Don't listen to these naysayers.

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mjb447
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Re: Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

Postby mjb447 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:39 pm

There's really no way to answer this question. Some very smart and capable people adjust really well to law school, and some don't. I'm also not sure why you're asking it: will it affect your decision to go, or where you apply?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:40 pm

I don't think it will make much of a difference because I don't think getting how to take law school exams depends on previous experience being graded on a curve. Being used to being graded on a curve doesn't have as much effect on your grades as figuring out how to apply law to facts on an exam. People warn 0Ls about the curve etc. so 0Ls realize they can't predict where they'll fall in the class, but the big thing that's different is the nature of the material - some people get it more quickly than others.

MangoPapi
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Re: Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

Postby MangoPapi » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:49 pm

OneHandedEconomist wrote:OP, clearly you'll be #1 in your class. Don't listen to these naysayers.


Haha I wish it was that easy

MangoPapi
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Re: Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

Postby MangoPapi » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:52 pm

mjb447 wrote:There's really no way to answer this question. Some very smart and capable people adjust really well to law school, and some don't. I'm also not sure why you're asking it: will it affect your decision to go, or where you apply?


I was just asking for curiosity's sake. I know from reading various threads that picking a lower ranked law school isn't the smart thing to do as there's always going to be smarter/more hard working students despite how low school's LSAT median is

gwillygecko
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Re: Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

Postby gwillygecko » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:52 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I don't think it will make much of a difference because I don't think getting how to take law school exams depends on previous experience being graded on a curve. Being used to being graded on a curve doesn't have as much effect on your grades as figuring out how to apply law to facts on an exam. People warn 0Ls about the curve etc. so 0Ls realize they can't predict where they'll fall in the class, but the big thing that's different is the nature of the material - some people get it more quickly than others.


any advice on how to apply facts to law exams for us "rising 1Ls" lol?

MangoPapi
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Re: Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

Postby MangoPapi » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:54 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I don't think it will make much of a difference because I don't think getting how to take law school exams depends on previous experience being graded on a curve. Being used to being graded on a curve doesn't have as much effect on your grades as figuring out how to apply law to facts on an exam. People warn 0Ls about the curve etc. so 0Ls realize they can't predict where they'll fall in the class, but the big thing that's different is the nature of the material - some people get it more quickly than others.


Thank you for this input. I was thinking of it (bell curve) in a different manner so when I read your sentences, it opened a new perspective for me so I appreciate it

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Undergrad --> Law School. Is There Really Such A Diff?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:19 pm

gwillygecko wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I don't think it will make much of a difference because I don't think getting how to take law school exams depends on previous experience being graded on a curve. Being used to being graded on a curve doesn't have as much effect on your grades as figuring out how to apply law to facts on an exam. People warn 0Ls about the curve etc. so 0Ls realize they can't predict where they'll fall in the class, but the big thing that's different is the nature of the material - some people get it more quickly than others.


any advice on how to apply facts to law exams for us "rising 1Ls" lol?

I suck at explaining any of that, but there's a ton of advice about this already in the Law Students Forum (you can't post there till you're in school, but you can read around in it).




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