"Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

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Mr_Chukes
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby Mr_Chukes » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:14 pm

Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:There's obviously not a hard cut off...you're at Chicago. Relax!

+180

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Smc1994
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby Smc1994 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:00 pm

Sussmann, Gibson, and W&C have all made appearances at UChi's OCI. Elite lit is still in the picture!

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Rigo
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby Rigo » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:04 pm

When people say unicorn jobs it's generally in the context of PI (or at least I project that context because of my own interests) and it's the people hoping for ACLU/Earthjustice/international human rights law etc.

Ensign Ro
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby Ensign Ro » Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:35 pm

Hi there, I currently work at the ACLU and I'm headed to law school in the Fall. Each project is different, but most of the litigators went to Yale, NYU, Stanford, etc. The biggest school by far is NYU. They are almost all from the topmost schools, a few from the lower T-14, and then an occasional person who has come from a lower-ranked school that has distinguished themselves professionally in some other way. As someone mentioned, Chelsea Manning's attorney, Chase Strangio, went to Northeastern. Right after graduation, you are probably not going to get a job at an ACLU legal project anyway because you are not a subject matter expert in anything. Many people come in after a clerkship and/or some prior work history on a particular issue that gives them some expertise on LGBT, privacy, prisons, what have you. Many people come in as Skaddens or with other fellowships. If you aren't going to a T-14 but want to work for the ACLU, one way to get there is to work at an affiliate office (i.e., the ACLU of Ohio, Indiana, or another state), distinguish yourself, and try to move into the national office later. Ppl have done that. Another way to get your foot in the door is to get a job as a legal assistant or paralegal, put in two years, pick up some AWESOME recommendations and then head off to law school while keeping in touch with the legal project.

curry1
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby curry1 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:38 pm

1styearlateral wrote:
call-me-bubbles wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:i mean... do you not know how statistics work?


Again, so many people throw around "unicorn jobs!!" as a reason for taking sticker debt at YSH over full-rides at other T13s with comparable legal employment scores, so I don't think it's a ridiculous question to dig a little deeper and try to understand what people actually mean when they're talking about "unicorn" jobs and how they actually use that concept to justify the exceptionalism of YSH.

In no particular order:

Supreme Court clerk
Supreme Court justice
POTUS
WLRK/Cravath
Elite Lit Boutique
Counsel at IB/PE/Banking (I think?); really GC/in-house at any F500


lmao at the idea that cravath is a "unicorn" outcome. Per data posted on this site, 25 Columbia grads are headed to CSM this fall and they regularly hire down to median.

lawlorbust
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby lawlorbust » Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:48 pm

curry1 wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:
call-me-bubbles wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:i mean... do you not know how statistics work?


Again, so many people throw around "unicorn jobs!!" as a reason for taking sticker debt at YSH over full-rides at other T13s with comparable legal employment scores, so I don't think it's a ridiculous question to dig a little deeper and try to understand what people actually mean when they're talking about "unicorn" jobs and how they actually use that concept to justify the exceptionalism of YSH.

In no particular order:

Supreme Court clerk
Supreme Court justice
POTUS
WLRK/Cravath
Elite Lit Boutique
Counsel at IB/PE/Banking (I think?); really GC/in-house at any F500


lmao at the idea that cravath is a "unicorn" outcome. Per data posted on this site, 25 Columbia grads are headed to CSM this fall and they regularly hire down to median.


Columbia = TTT

curry1
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby curry1 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:53 pm

lawlorbust wrote:
curry1 wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:
call-me-bubbles wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:i mean... do you not know how statistics work?


Again, so many people throw around "unicorn jobs!!" as a reason for taking sticker debt at YSH over full-rides at other T13s with comparable legal employment scores, so I don't think it's a ridiculous question to dig a little deeper and try to understand what people actually mean when they're talking about "unicorn" jobs and how they actually use that concept to justify the exceptionalism of YSH.

In no particular order:

Supreme Court clerk
Supreme Court justice
POTUS
WLRK/Cravath
Elite Lit Boutique
Counsel at IB/PE/Banking (I think?); really GC/in-house at any F500


lmao at the idea that cravath is a "unicorn" outcome. Per data posted on this site, 25 Columbia grads are headed to CSM this fall and they regularly hire down to median.


Columbia = TTT


YSHICAGO tier has been emerging as of late

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Po$eidon
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby Po$eidon » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:01 pm

curry1 wrote:
lawlorbust wrote:
curry1 wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:
call-me-bubbles wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:i mean... do you not know how statistics work?


Again, so many people throw around "unicorn jobs!!" as a reason for taking sticker debt at YSH over full-rides at other T13s with comparable legal employment scores, so I don't think it's a ridiculous question to dig a little deeper and try to understand what people actually mean when they're talking about "unicorn" jobs and how they actually use that concept to justify the exceptionalism of YSH.

In no particular order:

Supreme Court clerk
Supreme Court justice
POTUS
WLRK/Cravath
Elite Lit Boutique
Counsel at IB/PE/Banking (I think?); really GC/in-house at any F500


lmao at the idea that cravath is a "unicorn" outcome. Per data posted on this site, 25 Columbia grads are headed to CSM this fall and they regularly hire down to median.


Columbia = TTT


YSHICAGO tier has been emerging as of late


It's for good reason: Columbia just does what the rest of the T14 does but at a higher percent (biglaw placement). Chicago, on the other hand, actually trains future academics and gets its students proper clerkships. Until CLS resumes being a fully fleshed tippy top school the order should continue to be Y>S>HChi>ClsN>VPDMNCornB>the rest

lawlorbust
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby lawlorbust » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:06 pm

Po$eidon wrote:It's for good reason: Columbia just does what the rest of the T14 does but at a higher percent (biglaw placement). Chicago, on the other hand, actually trains future academics and gets its students proper clerkships. Until CLS resumes being a fully fleshed tippy top school the order should continue to be Y>S>HChi>ClsN>VPDMNCornB>the rest


Strong analysis but I think the proper interim measure is to put Columbia on probationary status pending a successful restructuring to achieve proper T6 outcomes (rather than permanently alter the tier altogether): YHS(C*)CN

curry1
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby curry1 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:19 pm

Po$eidon wrote:
curry1 wrote:
lawlorbust wrote:
curry1 wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:
call-me-bubbles wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:i mean... do you not know how statistics work?


Again, so many people throw around "unicorn jobs!!" as a reason for taking sticker debt at YSH over full-rides at other T13s with comparable legal employment scores, so I don't think it's a ridiculous question to dig a little deeper and try to understand what people actually mean when they're talking about "unicorn" jobs and how they actually use that concept to justify the exceptionalism of YSH.

In no particular order:

Supreme Court clerk
Supreme Court justice
POTUS
WLRK/Cravath
Elite Lit Boutique
Counsel at IB/PE/Banking (I think?); really GC/in-house at any F500


lmao at the idea that cravath is a "unicorn" outcome. Per data posted on this site, 25 Columbia grads are headed to CSM this fall and they regularly hire down to median.


Columbia = TTT


YSHICAGO tier has been emerging as of late


It's for good reason: Columbia just does what the rest of the T14 does but at a higher percent (biglaw placement). Chicago, on the other hand, actually trains future academics and gets its students proper clerkships. Until CLS resumes being a fully fleshed tippy top school the order should continue to be Y>S>HChi>ClsN>VPDMNCornB>the rest



I was only semi-joking. At Chicago's asw this weekend a lot of current students would refer to Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Chicago leaving out NYU and Columbia. T6 also wasn't a thing IRL, a lot of people talked about "top 5 schools," which I found weird. The statistics do seem to bear out that Chicago's placement into clerkships/academia is much more in line with H/S than C/N. Y is its own beast. I'm not convinced that H is better than Chicago, they seem equal in virtually all respects. S undoubtedly does better with clerkships.

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Po$eidon
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby Po$eidon » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:21 pm

lawlorbust wrote:
Po$eidon wrote:It's for good reason: Columbia just does what the rest of the T14 does but at a higher percent (biglaw placement). Chicago, on the other hand, actually trains future academics and gets its students proper clerkships. Until CLS resumes being a fully fleshed tippy top school the order should continue to be Y>S>HChi>ClsN>VPDMNCornB>the rest


Strong analysis but I think the proper interim measure is to put Columbia on probationary status pending a successful restructuring to achieve proper T6 outcomes (rather than permanently alter the tier altogether): YHS(C*)CN


Agreed. Tho I'm not sure which is a stronger causal contributor: Cls slipping or UChi excelling. UChi works for its place whereas I feel that CLS rests (a bit like H) on its laurels (take for instance how stingy CLS often is whereas UChi throws money and how Cls has - reportedly - a pretty crap clerkship office)

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Kummel
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby Kummel » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:24 pm

RedPurpleBlue wrote:
grand inquisitor wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:Elizabeth Warren went to Rutgers-Newark and has had a string of unicorn jobs.

wouldn't have been possible if she weren't american indian.


http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... rican.html



She is, after all, one of the three most-cited scholars in the bankruptcy/commercial law field, and she is the only woman in the top ten.


Damn I did not know that

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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby RSN » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:35 pm

curry1 wrote:
I was only semi-joking. At Chicago's asw this weekend a lot of current students would refer to Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Chicago leaving out NYU and Columbia. T6 also wasn't a thing IRL, a lot of people talked about "top 5 schools," which I found weird. The statistics do seem to bear out that Chicago's placement into clerkships/academia is much more in line with H/S than C/N. Y is its own beast. I'm not convinced that H is better than Chicago, they seem equal in virtually all respects. S undoubtedly does better with clerkships.


Lol, that's egregious and actually pretty funny rankings trolling by Chicago. One year of slight U.S. News bump and suddenly they think they're basically the HLS of the Midwest. It doesn't matter which order the Cs go in CCN, it's still CCN.

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Po$eidon
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby Po$eidon » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:37 pm

curry1 wrote:I was only semi-joking. At Chicago's asw this weekend a lot of current students would refer to Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Chicago leaving out NYU and Columbia. T6 also wasn't a thing IRL, a lot of people talked about "top 5 schools," which I found weird. The statistics do seem to bear out that Chicago's placement into clerkships/academia is much more in line with H/S than C/N. Y is its own beast. I'm not convinced that H is better than Chicago, they seem equal in virtually all respects. S undoubtedly does better with clerkships.


Agreed. I put H with Chi because I also think H is WAAAAY overestimated. It's only real benefits come if you make H law review or in that one in 3000000 chance you get into deep politics. Betting on those, though? Stupid

I got into Uchi last year w/$75k but I turned it down cuz it would have left me never seeing my SO who I'm madly in love with. I've been kicking myself since as I really am interested in academia (I'm a great teacher) but I'll live (going to Cornell w/a fat scholly this coming fall instead)

Edit: we live in NYC. Also, congrats on that Uchi acceptance
Last edited by Po$eidon on Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Po$eidon
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby Po$eidon » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:39 pm

RSN wrote:
curry1 wrote:
I was only semi-joking. At Chicago's asw this weekend a lot of current students would refer to Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Chicago leaving out NYU and Columbia. T6 also wasn't a thing IRL, a lot of people talked about "top 5 schools," which I found weird. The statistics do seem to bear out that Chicago's placement into clerkships/academia is much more in line with H/S than C/N. Y is its own beast. I'm not convinced that H is better than Chicago, they seem equal in virtually all respects. S undoubtedly does better with clerkships.


Lol, that's egregious and actually pretty funny rankings trolling by Chicago. One year of slight U.S. News bump and suddenly they think they're basically the HLS of the Midwest. It doesn't matter which order the Cs go in CCN, it's still CCN.


I've personally judged Chicago as above CLS for a while now and my opinion personally wasn't changed by the rankings shift. CLS doesn't place into academia or clerkships well enough for its spot imo

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RSN
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby RSN » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:04 pm

Po$eidon wrote:
RSN wrote:
curry1 wrote:
I was only semi-joking. At Chicago's asw this weekend a lot of current students would refer to Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Chicago leaving out NYU and Columbia. T6 also wasn't a thing IRL, a lot of people talked about "top 5 schools," which I found weird. The statistics do seem to bear out that Chicago's placement into clerkships/academia is much more in line with H/S than C/N. Y is its own beast. I'm not convinced that H is better than Chicago, they seem equal in virtually all respects. S undoubtedly does better with clerkships.


Lol, that's egregious and actually pretty funny rankings trolling by Chicago. One year of slight U.S. News bump and suddenly they think they're basically the HLS of the Midwest. It doesn't matter which order the Cs go in CCN, it's still CCN.


I've personally judged Chicago as above CLS for a while now and my opinion personally wasn't changed by the rankings shift. CLS doesn't place into academia or clerkships well enough for its spot imo

Po$eidon wrote:
Agreed. I put H with Chi because I also think H is WAAAAY overestimated. It's only real benefits come if you make H law review or in that one in 3000000 chance you get into deep politics. Betting on those, though? Stupid

I got into Uchi last year w/$75k but I turned it down cuz it would have left me never seeing my SO who I'm madly in love with. I've been kicking myself since as I really am interested in academia (I'm a great teacher) but I'll live (going to Cornell w/a fat scholly this coming fall instead)

Edit: we live in NYC. Also, congrats on that Uchi acceptance


Let it be known to all: the 0L sea god has spoken. Bow before his divine judgments and greatness of teaching ability.

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Po$eidon
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby Po$eidon » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:05 pm

RSN wrote:
Po$eidon wrote:
RSN wrote:
curry1 wrote:
I was only semi-joking. At Chicago's asw this weekend a lot of current students would refer to Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Chicago leaving out NYU and Columbia. T6 also wasn't a thing IRL, a lot of people talked about "top 5 schools," which I found weird. The statistics do seem to bear out that Chicago's placement into clerkships/academia is much more in line with H/S than C/N. Y is its own beast. I'm not convinced that H is better than Chicago, they seem equal in virtually all respects. S undoubtedly does better with clerkships.


Lol, that's egregious and actually pretty funny rankings trolling by Chicago. One year of slight U.S. News bump and suddenly they think they're basically the HLS of the Midwest. It doesn't matter which order the Cs go in CCN, it's still CCN.


I've personally judged Chicago as above CLS for a while now and my opinion personally wasn't changed by the rankings shift. CLS doesn't place into academia or clerkships well enough for its spot imo

Po$eidon wrote:
Agreed. I put H with Chi because I also think H is WAAAAY overestimated. It's only real benefits come if you make H law review or in that one in 3000000 chance you get into deep politics. Betting on those, though? Stupid

I got into Uchi last year w/$75k but I turned it down cuz it would have left me never seeing my SO who I'm madly in love with. I've been kicking myself since as I really am interested in academia (I'm a great teacher) but I'll live (going to Cornell w/a fat scholly this coming fall instead)

Edit: we live in NYC. Also, congrats on that Uchi acceptance


Let it be known to all: the 0L sea god has spoken. Bow before his divine judgments and greatness of teaching ability.


Better a seagod who has placed students at Harvard Law and NYU than a douchebag

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Rigo
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby Rigo » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:07 pm

In 50 pages this thread will be about whether Vassar or WUSTL has more lay prestige in Northern Virginia. You heard it here first.

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RSN
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby RSN » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:08 pm

Po$eidon wrote:
RSN wrote:
Po$eidon wrote:
RSN wrote:
curry1 wrote:
I was only semi-joking. At Chicago's asw this weekend a lot of current students would refer to Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Chicago leaving out NYU and Columbia. T6 also wasn't a thing IRL, a lot of people talked about "top 5 schools," which I found weird. The statistics do seem to bear out that Chicago's placement into clerkships/academia is much more in line with H/S than C/N. Y is its own beast. I'm not convinced that H is better than Chicago, they seem equal in virtually all respects. S undoubtedly does better with clerkships.


Lol, that's egregious and actually pretty funny rankings trolling by Chicago. One year of slight U.S. News bump and suddenly they think they're basically the HLS of the Midwest. It doesn't matter which order the Cs go in CCN, it's still CCN.


I've personally judged Chicago as above CLS for a while now and my opinion personally wasn't changed by the rankings shift. CLS doesn't place into academia or clerkships well enough for its spot imo

Po$eidon wrote:
Agreed. I put H with Chi because I also think H is WAAAAY overestimated. It's only real benefits come if you make H law review or in that one in 3000000 chance you get into deep politics. Betting on those, though? Stupid

I got into Uchi last year w/$75k but I turned it down cuz it would have left me never seeing my SO who I'm madly in love with. I've been kicking myself since as I really am interested in academia (I'm a great teacher) but I'll live (going to Cornell w/a fat scholly this coming fall instead)

Edit: we live in NYC. Also, congrats on that Uchi acceptance


Let it be known to all: the 0L sea god has spoken. Bow before his divine judgments and greatness of teaching ability.


Better a seagod who has placed students at Harvard Law and NYU than a douchebag


How does it feel to be both though?

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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby Vursz » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:10 pm

Po$eidon wrote:
RSN wrote:
curry1 wrote:
I was only semi-joking. At Chicago's asw this weekend a lot of current students would refer to Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Chicago leaving out NYU and Columbia. T6 also wasn't a thing IRL, a lot of people talked about "top 5 schools," which I found weird. The statistics do seem to bear out that Chicago's placement into clerkships/academia is much more in line with H/S than C/N. Y is its own beast. I'm not convinced that H is better than Chicago, they seem equal in virtually all respects. S undoubtedly does better with clerkships.


Lol, that's egregious and actually pretty funny rankings trolling by Chicago. One year of slight U.S. News bump and suddenly they think they're basically the HLS of the Midwest. It doesn't matter which order the Cs go in CCN, it's still CCN.


I've personally judged Chicago as above CLS for a while now and my opinion personally wasn't changed by the rankings shift. CLS doesn't place into academia or clerkships well enough for its spot imo


While this whole thread is definitely full of trolling/flame, in my experience (and that of a lot of folks I know) there do seem to be a lot of good reasons to prefer Chicago over CLS, particularly if "NYC biglaw" isn't the be-all end-all of your goals.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:46 pm

Po$eidon wrote:I've personally judged Chicago as above CLS for a while now and my opinion personally wasn't changed by the rankings shift. CLS doesn't place into academia or clerkships well enough for its spot imo

Of course, your average top law grad couldn't care less about academia, so they go to CLS to get the biglaw gig they want.

Also,
Po$eidon wrote:I've been kicking myself since as I really am interested in academia (I'm a great teacher)
you know that teaching doesn't get you anywhere in legal academia, right?

lawlorbust
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby lawlorbust » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:03 pm

Po$eidon wrote:
curry1 wrote:I was only semi-joking. At Chicago's asw this weekend a lot of current students would refer to Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Chicago leaving out NYU and Columbia. T6 also wasn't a thing IRL, a lot of people talked about "top 5 schools," which I found weird. The statistics do seem to bear out that Chicago's placement into clerkships/academia is much more in line with H/S than C/N. Y is its own beast. I'm not convinced that H is better than Chicago, they seem equal in virtually all respects. S undoubtedly does better with clerkships.


Agreed. I put H with Chi because I also think H is WAAAAY overestimated. It's only real benefits come if you make H law review or in that one in 3000000 chance you get into deep politics. Betting on those, though? Stupid

I got into Uchi last year w/$75k but I turned it down cuz it would have left me never seeing my SO who I'm madly in love with. I've been kicking myself since as I really am interested in academia (I'm a great teacher) but I'll live (going to Cornell w/a fat scholly this coming fall instead)

Edit: we live in NYC. Also, congrats on that Uchi acceptance


No need to apologize. Great decision! Cornell is basically the new "C". Although if Columbia manages to turn the ship around (unlikely), it's possibly we'll settle into a new "CCCN" tier.

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RSN
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby RSN » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:09 pm

lawlorbust wrote:
Po$eidon wrote:
curry1 wrote:I was only semi-joking. At Chicago's asw this weekend a lot of current students would refer to Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Chicago leaving out NYU and Columbia. T6 also wasn't a thing IRL, a lot of people talked about "top 5 schools," which I found weird. The statistics do seem to bear out that Chicago's placement into clerkships/academia is much more in line with H/S than C/N. Y is its own beast. I'm not convinced that H is better than Chicago, they seem equal in virtually all respects. S undoubtedly does better with clerkships.


Agreed. I put H with Chi because I also think H is WAAAAY overestimated. It's only real benefits come if you make H law review or in that one in 3000000 chance you get into deep politics. Betting on those, though? Stupid

I got into Uchi last year w/$75k but I turned it down cuz it would have left me never seeing my SO who I'm madly in love with. I've been kicking myself since as I really am interested in academia (I'm a great teacher) but I'll live (going to Cornell w/a fat scholly this coming fall instead)

Edit: we live in NYC. Also, congrats on that Uchi acceptance


No need to apologize. Great decision! Cornell is basically the new "C". Although if Columbia manages to turn the ship around (unlikely), it's possibly we'll settle into a new "CCCN" tier.


Why not go for broke and just say CCN is now Chicago, Cornell, NYU?

Veil of Ignorance
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:12 pm

Rigo wrote:In 50 pages this thread will be about whether Vassar or WUSTL has more lay prestige in Northern Virginia. You heard it here first.


I laughed at this, thanks :) .

lawlorbust
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Re: "Unicorn" jobs' school cut-off?

Postby lawlorbust » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:32 pm

RSN wrote:Why not go for broke and just say CCN is now Chicago, Cornell, NYU?


That's possible but I think we should err on the side of caution. Who knows, maybe Dean Lester can make something happen. Unlike TTT USNews, I rank objectively. I'm not interested in stirring up shit to sell magazines.




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