What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

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Colonel_funkadunk
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby Colonel_funkadunk » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:06 pm

whats the max amount of debt you'd take out for a motorcycle

cavalier1138
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:07 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:How I'd pay back my debt depends, for some options it'd be solely based on me working for others i'd potentially receive financial assistance from my family(i would not get this for most of my cheaper options for a particular reason).


Let's suppose that your family wasn't going to help you pay back your debts. And let's even lower your debt to $100k, but now you're at a T2. How, specifically, are you going to pay that debt back? What job do you get? What is the salary? How does your payment schedule look?

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UVA2B
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby UVA2B » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:08 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
loslakers wrote:just curious cavalier how much debt would you be willing to take on for a Vandy, Washington, UCLA/USC, UT. assuming you would be cool with living and working in nashville, st. louis, los angeles, and texas.


<$100k for Vanderbilt and UT, nothing anywhere else.


So you think only 16 schools are worth taking on debt for? Yeah, I'm the crazy person.


Just out of curiosity, you mentioned that you would take on $150k in debt for a T1 school. How would you be paying that debt back?


Well I said 100-150, 150 is the ceiling, I'm thinking 120-125 for the T's I'm applying to. I also might take out around that much for a T2 in the region I'm heavily leaning on practicing in(not sure the amount it will cost, it's dependent on getting in state residency or not/negotiating). How I'd pay back my debt depends, for some options it'd be solely based on me working for others i'd potentially receive financial assistance from my family(i would not get this for most of my cheaper options for a particular reason). Don't really feel comfortable explaining the details further, it's somewhat tentative though. Once I get my decisions from W+M and W+L, I am going to make a "Choosing a Law School thread" to discuss my situation further. Anyway I think less than 100k for a TT is pretty reasonable and a little more for a T is reasonable(I know you may think the employment opportunities are pretty similar but the T's i'm applying to do good enough stats and an area I prefer and I think that's worth 20k-30k more. Right now, I'm more worried about picking my region of practice, the schools that are giving me the best offers are either TTT's or schools in an area I'm leaning against practicing in. Seeing this though, for me Vandy would be a no brainier at 100, even 150(still haven't actually been rejected yet;). If I did have really good stats though I would take Vanderbilt over almost any T-14 though because it was my dream school and Nashville is an area I'd love to live in and practice.


Why do you keep rope a doping basic questions like this? Let's say you go to W&M with $150k debt (make sure you're including living expenses in your cost estimations). You're looking at ~$1700/month in loan repayments upon graduation. If you get the most likely outcome at W&M, you'll be making in the range of $40k-$50k employment starting out. After taxes, that'll give you about $3k-$4k/month. That means around half of your take home pay would go to paying off loans in a regular schedule, or relying on PAYE/IBR for 20 years, saddling you with growing debt that will affect every financial decision you make in the future with a fun tax bomb at the end of it when it's forgiven.

You obsess over these "tiers" distinctions like they actually matter in the least. You're borderline criminally underprepared to actually make this type of financially cavalier decision, and that makes me very sad.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:15 pm

Or financially very un-cavalier(1138) decision!

I had an objectively very good outcome out of my T1 school (label for identification purposes, not because I think it has independent meaning), and I'm going for PSLF. But it's still pretty terrible to see my loan balance going up instead of down. $100-150k is still a lot of money, even if it's a lot less than $250k.

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guynourmin
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby guynourmin » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:18 pm

Colonel_funkadunk wrote:whats the max amount of debt you'd take out for a motorcycle


For a Honda, probably $55,000. If Bentley made a motorcycle probably $120,000, though, or maybe even more. You can't tell me that's unreasonable because its a personal decision.

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UVA2B
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby UVA2B » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:20 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Or financially very un-cavalier(1138) decision!

I had an objectively very good outcome out of my T1 school (label for identification purposes, not because I think it has independent meaning), and I'm going for PSLF. But it's still pretty terrible to see my loan balance going up instead of down. $100-150k is still a lot of money, even if it's a lot less than $250k.


I'd give him at least some credit if he had said PSLF from the start, but I'm not even sure he's thought beyond the acceptance letters showing up in the mail and potentially wearing a suit to work every day. Very. Exciting. Stuff.

It's entirely possible to land in a PSLF gig and use that to your advantage, but you are also required under PSLF to maintain that position for 120 payments before it is forgiven, meaning it's still a pretty big risk to take out that much in loans for a 50/50 chance at being able to have it forgiven. But I'd at least give credit that there is more of a plan in place. At that point, we're just talking about risk aversion, which is perfectly acceptable to have differing levels of risk aversion.

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Ferrisjso
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby Ferrisjso » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:25 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
loslakers wrote:just curious cavalier how much debt would you be willing to take on for a Vandy, Washington, UCLA/USC, UT. assuming you would be cool with living and working in nashville, st. louis, los angeles, and texas.


<$100k for Vanderbilt and UT, nothing anywhere else.


So you think only 16 schools are worth taking on debt for? Yeah, I'm the crazy person.


Just out of curiosity, you mentioned that you would take on $150k in debt for a T1 school. How would you be paying that debt back?


Well I said 100-150, 150 is the ceiling, I'm thinking 120-125 for the T's I'm applying to. I also might take out around that much for a T2 in the region I'm heavily leaning on practicing in(not sure the amount it will cost, it's dependent on getting in state residency or not/negotiating). How I'd pay back my debt depends, for some options it'd be solely based on me working for others i'd potentially receive financial assistance from my family(i would not get this for most of my cheaper options for a particular reason). Don't really feel comfortable explaining the details further, it's somewhat tentative though. Once I get my decisions from W+M and W+L, I am going to make a "Choosing a Law School thread" to discuss my situation further. Anyway I think less than 100k for a TT is pretty reasonable and a little more for a T is reasonable(I know you may think the employment opportunities are pretty similar but the T's i'm applying to do good enough stats and an area I prefer and I think that's worth 20k-30k more. Right now, I'm more worried about picking my region of practice, the schools that are giving me the best offers are either TTT's or schools in an area I'm leaning against practicing in. Seeing this though, for me Vandy would be a no brainier at 100, even 150(still haven't actually been rejected yet;). If I did have really good stats though I would take Vanderbilt over almost any T-14 though because it was my dream school and Nashville is an area I'd love to live in and practice.


Why do you keep rope a doping basic questions like this? Let's say you go to W&M with $150k debt (make sure you're including living expenses in your cost estimations). You're looking at ~$1700/month in loan repayments upon graduation. If you get the most likely outcome at W&M, you'll be making in the range of $40k-$50k employment starting out. After taxes, that'll give you about $3k-$4k/month. That means around half of your take home pay would go to paying off loans in a regular schedule, or relying on PAYE/IBR for 20 years, saddling you with growing debt that will affect every financial decision you make in the future with a fun tax bomb at the end of it when it's forgiven.

You obsess over these "tiers" distinctions like they actually matter in the least. You're borderline criminally underprepared to actually make this type of financially cavalier decision, and that makes me very sad.


"Cavalier", nice word play! I am including COL in all of my estimations. Thank you for the info though, it's very helpful(though I hope I'll be making a little more than 50k). I was planning on doing PI potentially for PSLF but I want to see if the new administration keeps it in place first(because many on here think that's in danger). I'm not rope a doping anything, shouldn't have brought the tiers into it perhaps though. This thread isn't about me, it's about people's answers to a question though, I will have a thread in the near future to discuss my situation if anyone is interested.

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UVA2B
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby UVA2B » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:29 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
loslakers wrote:just curious cavalier how much debt would you be willing to take on for a Vandy, Washington, UCLA/USC, UT. assuming you would be cool with living and working in nashville, st. louis, los angeles, and texas.


<$100k for Vanderbilt and UT, nothing anywhere else.


So you think only 16 schools are worth taking on debt for? Yeah, I'm the crazy person.


Just out of curiosity, you mentioned that you would take on $150k in debt for a T1 school. How would you be paying that debt back?


Well I said 100-150, 150 is the ceiling, I'm thinking 120-125 for the T's I'm applying to. I also might take out around that much for a T2 in the region I'm heavily leaning on practicing in(not sure the amount it will cost, it's dependent on getting in state residency or not/negotiating). How I'd pay back my debt depends, for some options it'd be solely based on me working for others i'd potentially receive financial assistance from my family(i would not get this for most of my cheaper options for a particular reason). Don't really feel comfortable explaining the details further, it's somewhat tentative though. Once I get my decisions from W+M and W+L, I am going to make a "Choosing a Law School thread" to discuss my situation further. Anyway I think less than 100k for a TT is pretty reasonable and a little more for a T is reasonable(I know you may think the employment opportunities are pretty similar but the T's i'm applying to do good enough stats and an area I prefer and I think that's worth 20k-30k more. Right now, I'm more worried about picking my region of practice, the schools that are giving me the best offers are either TTT's or schools in an area I'm leaning against practicing in. Seeing this though, for me Vandy would be a no brainier at 100, even 150(still haven't actually been rejected yet;). If I did have really good stats though I would take Vanderbilt over almost any T-14 though because it was my dream school and Nashville is an area I'd love to live in and practice.


Why do you keep rope a doping basic questions like this? Let's say you go to W&M with $150k debt (make sure you're including living expenses in your cost estimations). You're looking at ~$1700/month in loan repayments upon graduation. If you get the most likely outcome at W&M, you'll be making in the range of $40k-$50k employment starting out. After taxes, that'll give you about $3k-$4k/month. That means around half of your take home pay would go to paying off loans in a regular schedule, or relying on PAYE/IBR for 20 years, saddling you with growing debt that will affect every financial decision you make in the future with a fun tax bomb at the end of it when it's forgiven.

You obsess over these "tiers" distinctions like they actually matter in the least. You're borderline criminally underprepared to actually make this type of financially cavalier decision, and that makes me very sad.


"Cavalier", nice word play! I am including COL in all of my estimations. Thank you for the info though, it's very helpful(though I hope I'll be making a little more than 50k). I was planning on doing PI potentially for PSLF but I want to see if the new administration keeps it in place first(because many on here think that's in danger). I'm not rope a doping anything, shouldn't have brought the tiers into it perhaps though. This thread isn't about me, it's about people's answers to a question though, I will have a thread in the near future to discuss my situation if anyone is interested.


Ok, I'll wait to tell you you're likely making a huge mistake until then.

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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:30 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:"Cavalier", nice word play! I am including COL in all of my estimations. Thank you for the info though, it's very helpful(though I hope I'll be making a little more than 50k). I was planning on doing PI potentially for PSLF but I want to see if the new administration keeps it in place first(because many on here think that's in danger). I'm not rope a doping anything, shouldn't have brought the tiers into it perhaps though. This thread isn't about me, it's about people's answers to a question though, I will have a thread in the near future to discuss my situation if anyone is interested.


But the thing is that you're using your rationale to discuss what might be a generally reasonable course of action.

And I hope you realize that hoping to make more than 50k is not going to actually get you a job that pays more than that. You should do some salary research, because it will likely change your debt tolerance level (assuming you aren't going PI).

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UVA2B
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby UVA2B » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:33 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:"Cavalier", nice word play! I am including COL in all of my estimations. Thank you for the info though, it's very helpful(though I hope I'll be making a little more than 50k). I was planning on doing PI potentially for PSLF but I want to see if the new administration keeps it in place first(because many on here think that's in danger). I'm not rope a doping anything, shouldn't have brought the tiers into it perhaps though. This thread isn't about me, it's about people's answers to a question though, I will have a thread in the near future to discuss my situation if anyone is interested.


But the thing is that you're using your rationale to discuss what might be a generally reasonable course of action.

And I hope you realize that hoping to make more than 50k is not going to actually get you a job that pays more than that. You should do some salary research, because it will likely change your a reasonably prudent investor's debt tolerance level (assuming you aren't going PI).


FTFY. No evidence to suggest that's the case here.

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Ferrisjso
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby Ferrisjso » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:41 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:"Cavalier", nice word play! I am including COL in all of my estimations. Thank you for the info though, it's very helpful(though I hope I'll be making a little more than 50k). I was planning on doing PI potentially for PSLF but I want to see if the new administration keeps it in place first(because many on here think that's in danger). I'm not rope a doping anything, shouldn't have brought the tiers into it perhaps though. This thread isn't about me, it's about people's answers to a question though, I will have a thread in the near future to discuss my situation if anyone is interested.


But the thing is that you're using your rationale to discuss what might be a generally reasonable course of action.

And I hope you realize that hoping to make more than 50k is not going to actually get you a job that pays more than that. You should do some salary research, because it will likely change your debt tolerance level (assuming you aren't going PI).


The thread asks the question, what level of debt are you comfortable with for non T14" and I answered the question. Since this is an issue I'm grappling with I thought it'd be good to share my perspective and see what others thought(and I can see crystal clear what you guys think). Again my answer was this, TT less than 100k(with one exception for me because it seems like the best fit for me), non T14 T1(the ones I'm applying to) a little bit more. That's my answer. If you're worried your responses aren't making me more skittish about the idea of taking out so much money though, rest assured they certainly are.

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waldorf
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby waldorf » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:48 pm

tncats wrote:This is a genuine question for everyone who's saying $0 or <$50k. How do you plan on paying for your living expenses?


I'm personally using my savings for COL, and I assume some people have family help (several of my friends parents aren't contributing to tuition, but help with rent, food, etc.).

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zerato5
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby zerato5 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:51 pm

.
Last edited by zerato5 on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby loslakers » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:51 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
loslakers wrote:just curious cavalier how much debt would you be willing to take on for a Vandy, Washington, UCLA/USC, UT. assuming you would be cool with living and working in nashville, st. louis, los angeles, and texas.


<$100k for Vanderbilt and UT, nothing anywhere else.


So you think only 16 schools are worth taking on debt for? Yeah, I'm the crazy person.


i actually agree with cavalier on this. there should be a very limited amount of schools youd be willing to take on debt for, the t14, and a few schools in the region youd want to practice in. however, just because a school feeds into an area doesnt necessarily mean that school is worth going into debt for. i dont mean to pick on any school but you wouldnt go into six figures of debt for Rutgers just because you wanted to practice in New Jersey (only 7% of their kids got into big law firms according to LST), thats literally suicide.

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Colonel_funkadunk
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby Colonel_funkadunk » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:35 pm

guybourdin wrote:
Colonel_funkadunk wrote:whats the max amount of debt you'd take out for a motorcycle


For a Honda, probably $55,000. If Bentley made a motorcycle probably $120,000, though, or maybe even more. You can't tell me that's unreasonable because its a personal decision.


this is the most reasonable post itt

BigZuck
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby BigZuck » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:39 pm

zerato5 wrote:This is a pretty general question, but do you all find that the cost of living estimates for most schools are accurate?

They're probably under shooting it a bit but generally not too bad. And it's not their fault people try to extrapolate 9 months of living expenses out to 12 I guess.

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tncats
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby tncats » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:51 pm

zerato5 wrote:This is a pretty general question, but do you all find that the cost of living estimates for most schools are accurate?


I don't think they're very reliable. The estimates I've seen are too close to the same for very different types of locations. I've worked and lived in a very low COL area for years, and it's hard for me to imagine living at the estimated costs even on a strict budget. I think there are just hidden life expenses that they don't include in those figures.

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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby AJordan » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:15 pm

The school's median salary in the ABA reports multiplied by the percentage of students who have a job after 9 months would seem right for me.

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Johann
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby Johann » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:51 pm

Toon out 140k at a TTT because I graduated with no job options. If (1) you have no job options outside of barista-Ing or (2) know you want to be a lawyer and have done your homework (interviewed many lawyers in different sectors, read the complete day in the life of thread, understand stress and sacrifice on quality of life , if he comfortable taking sticker debt at anywhere down to TTT.

WIth income based repayment plans, you only have to pay 10% of your income above the poverty threshold regardless of your debt. This means if you make 60k you pay about $200-300 per month regardless of your debt being 100k 200k or even 400k. For those with the right risk appetite, it's best to gnome the price tag and go to the school that maximizes the chance of achieving your desired outcome.

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dm1683
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby dm1683 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:56 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:Toon out 140k at a TTT because I graduated with no job options.


I must confess that the logic here confuses me a bit.

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Johann
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby Johann » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:07 pm

dm1683 wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:Toon out 140k at a TTT because I graduated with no job options.


I must confess that the logic here confuses me a bit.


Meant from undergrad. No job options in undergrad post grad. Knew ttt was risky but took the gamble because the alternatives were not much better.

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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:10 pm

dm1683 wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:Toon out 140k at a TTT because I graduated with no job options.


I must confess that the logic here confuses me a bit.


+2 I was thinking the same exact thing.

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dm1683
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby dm1683 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:23 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:
dm1683 wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:Toon out 140k at a TTT because I graduated with no job options.


I must confess that the logic here confuses me a bit.


Meant from undergrad. No job options in undergrad post grad. Knew ttt was risky but took the gamble because the alternatives were not much better.


Wow, that is a big dice roll. Did you graduate right after the crash, in '08/'09 or something? Was your degree in something non-marketable? Don't mean to be prying but it just fascinates me how one could be cornered into making this risky of a move.

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Johann
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby Johann » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:30 pm

Econ/finance degree interviewing during the crash. Probably should have done an MBA in hindsight but oh well. Didn't even start looking into law school until November before graduation.

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Johann
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby Johann » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:32 pm

Also fwiw, 80%+ of my class was people who never really considered law school until the crash and went out of "necessity". Some are very jaded, some are pleasantly surprised with the outcome. Runs a whole spectrum as you could imagine.




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