What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

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Kinch08
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby Kinch08 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:21 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Those 10% of income plans. I'm also one of the most frugal human beings alive. I don't drive(no car, car insurance), I don't watch TV(no cable bill), I don't like heat during the winter(no heating) and I eat once a day twice occasionally!

Okay, this is silly. 1) on the 10% of income plans you won't actually pay off the debt. I'm on one of those and I graduated in 2011 and my debt is higher than when I graduated. 2) no one actually lives like that.


Besides the lack of heat, I already live like that and I would live like that if I was making 200k a year. I can't drive, don't watch anything on TV that I can't watch on my xfinity account and I eat one big meal a day. Only reason I have heating is because I usually live with other people who want it. So I really don't get how that's unrealistic.

Have you actually lived on your own not in school? Anywhere that actually gets cold? And the vast majority of humans eat normally.

But apart from whatever you're willing to do, you seem to be projecting your willingness to live the most frugal lifestyle minimally compatible with life when you say debt of $150k is NBD. And most people are not going to succeed in living that kind of lifestyle. While most Americans could probably stand to be more frugal (me included), assuming a lifestyle like that is going to set most people up for failure.


I actually live pretty close to the same way he does, and I'm on my own not in college. I know a couple of other people who do as well.

IMO if you're really set on pursuing a legal career and you think it'd be good for you then it can sometimes make sense to decide to be poor for a long time

Money's overrated sometimes for some people. Would you really rather have a car than a fulfilling career? Bus rides are fun, you can play games on your phone and read or whatever.
Last edited by Kinch08 on Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:23 am

You go without heat and eat one meal a day?

There's frugal, and then there's impoverished.

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Kinch08
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby Kinch08 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:26 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:You go without heat and eat one meal a day?

There's frugal, and then there's impoverished.


I do have heat, so I'm not quite as hardcore as him.

For single guys who don't quite have their lives together, the one-meal thing kills a bunch of birds with one stone. You don't have to wash nearly as many dishes, you don't have to spend a bunch of time making food, it's cheaper, you get to gorge yourself, you won't feel the negative health effects for another ten years or so...

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GFox345
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby GFox345 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:28 am

I'd take out 100k debt for Vandy and UT. Caution in these matters is definitely well-advised, but at some point, being "debt averse" is just being stupid. There is no life path that 100% guarantees long term financial security. Graduating at Median from a top 20 law school with 100k of debt is pretty damn good. I think sometimes people on this forum lack perspective.

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brinicolec
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby brinicolec » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:46 am

GFox345 wrote:I'd take out 100k debt for Vandy and UT. Caution in these matters is definitely well-advised, but at some point, being "debt averse" is just being stupid. There is no life path that 100% guarantees long term financial security. Graduating at Median from a top 20 law school with 100k of debt is pretty damn good. I think sometimes people on this forum lack perspective.


Are we talking tuition only or including CoL?

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Ferrisjso
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby Ferrisjso » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:48 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:You go without heat and eat one meal a day?

There's frugal, and then there's impoverished.


You keep accusing me of imposing my own situation on other people in regards to "living frugally" and "not wanting to wait a year" but these are not concerns exclusive to Ferrisjso. Tons of millennials live super frugally with or without law school debt that's just the way it is. The situation I've described is super common. It honestly isn't that hard to eat only one meal a day once you get used to it. None of the things I've mentioned are things I made a conscious effort to sacrifice(except heat, because I just don't like heat during the winter, I know that's bizarre that one's probably just me lol, although I know a house of people who lived without heat an entire winter and were fine, although that was an accident because the pipes just burst and they never realized it).

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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:02 am

Ferrisjso wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:You go without heat and eat one meal a day?

There's frugal, and then there's impoverished.


You keep accusing me of imposing my own situation on other people in regards to "living frugally" and "not wanting to wait a year" but these are not concerns exclusive to Ferrisjso. Tons of millennials live super frugally with or without law school debt that's just the way it is. The situation I've described is super common. It honestly isn't that hard to eat only one meal a day once you get used to it. None of the things I've mentioned are things I made a conscious effort to sacrifice(except heat, because I just don't like heat during the winter, I know that's bizarre that one's probably just me lol, although I know a house of people who lived without heat an entire winter and were fine, although that was an accident because the pipes just burst and they never realized it).


I live quite frugally, but as long as I'm actually paying more than $500 a month to rent an apartment, I cannot pay off $150k in debt on $60k a year (which is a pretty optimistic starting point for non-biglaw salaries right out of law school). Your initial answer betrayed a real naivete about how debt repayment schedules work. You cannot pay off six figures on the IBR or PAYE plans. You can just let it sit there and eventually hope that you don't have to pay a massive amount in taxes after 25 years.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:58 am

Ferrisjso wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:You go without heat and eat one meal a day?

There's frugal, and then there's impoverished.


You keep accusing me of imposing my own situation on other people in regards to "living frugally" and "not wanting to wait a year" but these are not concerns exclusive to Ferrisjso. Tons of millennials live super frugally with or without law school debt that's just the way it is. The situation I've described is super common. It honestly isn't that hard to eat only one meal a day once you get used to it. None of the things I've mentioned are things I made a conscious effort to sacrifice(except heat, because I just don't like heat during the winter, I know that's bizarre that one's probably just me lol, although I know a house of people who lived without heat an entire winter and were fine, although that was an accident because the pipes just burst and they never realized it).

I simply think your assumptions about how you can pay back debt and why you can't take a year off are extremely unrealistic.

CanadianWolf
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:04 am

One meal a day seems a bit extreme (unless in conjunction with a couple of "snacks"), but I can vouch for the no heat preference.

cavalier1138
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:43 am

CanadianWolf wrote:One meal a day seems a bit extreme (unless in conjunction with a couple of "snacks"), but I can vouch for the no heat preference.


Can we really trust a Canadian's judgment on temperature preferences?

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GFox345
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby GFox345 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:15 pm

brinicolec wrote:
GFox345 wrote:I'd take out 100k debt for Vandy and UT. Caution in these matters is definitely well-advised, but at some point, being "debt averse" is just being stupid. There is no life path that 100% guarantees long term financial security. Graduating at Median from a top 20 law school with 100k of debt is pretty damn good. I think sometimes people on this forum lack perspective.


Are we talking tuition only or including CoL?


Total Debt, so including COL. I'd probably even do 125k, but that's starting to push it.

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waldorf
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby waldorf » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:17 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:You go without heat and eat one meal a day?

There's frugal, and then there's impoverished.


You keep accusing me of imposing my own situation on other people in regards to "living frugally" and "not wanting to wait a year" but these are not concerns exclusive to Ferrisjso. Tons of millennials live super frugally with or without law school debt that's just the way it is. The situation I've described is super common. It honestly isn't that hard to eat only one meal a day once you get used to it. None of the things I've mentioned are things I made a conscious effort to sacrifice(except heat, because I just don't like heat during the winter, I know that's bizarre that one's probably just me lol, although I know a house of people who lived without heat an entire winter and were fine, although that was an accident because the pipes just burst and they never realized it).


I really don't think it's realistic to assume that most people can survive without heat and on one meal a day. You're an extreme case of living "frugally" and shouldn't think your case applies to everyone.

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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby fazzvm56 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:19 am

I just deposited at Fordham and with my scholarship, I'll probably be taking out 60k total over three years. I think this is the max I would do but if you asked me pre-scholarship money I would probably have a very different answer. I was fully prepared to be 150k deep to go to Georgetown until I was faced with half tuition at Fordham which places very well in NYC (I'm from New York). Seemed like a reasonable option and now that I'm there, I probably wouldn't go anywhere non-T14 without at least half tuition in schollys. I wouldn't go anywhere T2 in general, but going anywhere T2 without a full-ride is crazy, in my opinion.

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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby us3rnam3 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:35 pm

This might be a weird question but has anyone had to convince their parents or spouse that law school (t20) is not worth six figure debt. Because mine are fighting me on this and I am at a loss for words...

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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby bitter_melon » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:42 pm

us3rnam3 wrote:This might be a weird question but has anyone had to convince their parents or spouse that law school (t20) is not worth six figure debt. Because mine are fighting me on this and I am at a loss for words...


Yes, same situation. They think that the "prestige" makes it worth it and that "you'll make it all back" and it's like, uhh that's terrible advice.

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Stylnator
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby Stylnator » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:43 pm

bitter_melon wrote:
us3rnam3 wrote:This might be a weird question but has anyone had to convince their parents or spouse that law school (t20) is not worth six figure debt. Because mine are fighting me on this and I am at a loss for words...


Yes, same situation. They think that the "prestige" makes it worth it and that "you'll make it all back" and it's like, uhh that's terrible advice.


Just tell them you want to go into 40k/year PI field. That shut my fam up pretty quick

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bitter_melon
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby bitter_melon » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:44 pm

Stylnator wrote:
bitter_melon wrote:
us3rnam3 wrote:This might be a weird question but has anyone had to convince their parents or spouse that law school (t20) is not worth six figure debt. Because mine are fighting me on this and I am at a loss for words...


Yes, same situation. They think that the "prestige" makes it worth it and that "you'll make it all back" and it's like, uhh that's terrible advice.


Just tell them you want to go into 40k/year PI field. That shut my fam up pretty quick


They would NOT be happy with that lol. (Not that they have any bearing on my decision)

us3rnam3
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby us3rnam3 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:55 pm

bitter_melon wrote:
Stylnator wrote:
bitter_melon wrote:
us3rnam3 wrote:This might be a weird question but has anyone had to convince their parents or spouse that law school (t20) is not worth six figure debt. Because mine are fighting me on this and I am at a loss for words...


Yes, same situation. They think that the "prestige" makes it worth it and that "you'll make it all back" and it's like, uhh that's terrible advice.


Just tell them you want to go into 40k/year PI field. That shut my fam up pretty quick


They would NOT be happy with that lol. (Not that they have any bearing on my decision)


Thats exactly what i've been telling them, they won't listen. They think im going to do biglaw and even if I was fortunate enough to do that, the way I live my life it wouldn't happen for more than like 5 years. They're all start struck by "prestige" which is ridicuolus because i'm not even the first person in my family to get a graduate degree or go to law school.

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Stylnator
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby Stylnator » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:58 pm

us3rnam3 wrote:
bitter_melon wrote:
Stylnator wrote:
bitter_melon wrote:
us3rnam3 wrote:This might be a weird question but has anyone had to convince their parents or spouse that law school (t20) is not worth six figure debt. Because mine are fighting me on this and I am at a loss for words...


Yes, same situation. They think that the "prestige" makes it worth it and that "you'll make it all back" and it's like, uhh that's terrible advice.


Just tell them you want to go into 40k/year PI field. That shut my fam up pretty quick


They would NOT be happy with that lol. (Not that they have any bearing on my decision)


Thats exactly what i've been telling them, they won't listen. They think im going to do biglaw and even if I was fortunate enough to do that, the way I live my life it wouldn't happen for more than like 5 years. They're all start struck by "prestige" which is ridicuolus because i'm not even the first person in my family to get a graduate degree or go to law school.


That's really tough, I've had similar experiences from friends as well. I wish I could show everyone TLS to get rid of all the misinformation that gets spread about the legal field.

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HarveySpecterr
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby HarveySpecterr » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:55 pm

I'm just gonna leave this right here:

https://lawyerist.com/83690/defusing-st ... -tax-bomb/

cavalier1138
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:58 pm

HarveySpecterr wrote:I'm just gonna leave this right here:

https://lawyerist.com/83690/defusing-st ... -tax-bomb/


Great idea. Financially fuck yourself over by putting all your money into liabilities; that way you won't have to pay a tax bomb and you'll have no money in savings 30 years from now! What a great plan!

To the posters above fretting about T20 "prestige": just let your parents know that T20 schools don't have prestige. If they want to base their career input on perception, then tell them which law schools actually look "prestigious" on a resume.

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Wild Card
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby Wild Card » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:04 pm

I would go to UT Austin, UCLA, or Vanderbilt if those schools were to offer me named scholarships covering tuition for all three years.

To answer your question, however much debt I would need to assume to cover remaining expenses (food and housing).

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HarveySpecterr
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby HarveySpecterr » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:24 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
HarveySpecterr wrote:I'm just gonna leave this right here:

https://lawyerist.com/83690/defusing-st ... -tax-bomb/


Great idea. Financially fuck yourself over by putting all your money into liabilities; that way you won't have to pay a tax bomb and you'll have no money in savings 30 years from now! What a great plan!

To the posters above fretting about T20 "prestige": just let your parents know that T20 schools don't have prestige. If they want to base their career input on perception, then tell them which law schools actually look "prestigious" on a resume.


I dare say I am beginning to rather enjoy our predictably petulant cavalier . . . the way one enjoys an ill-tempered cartoon character who, should he ever shock you with a response that is not filled with negativity and biting sarcasm, would leave one feeling sorely disappointed by his departure from the perfect consistency of his character. Bra-VOOO, I say! [clapping hands emoji]

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star fox
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Re: What level of debt are you comfortable with for nont14

Postby star fox » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:12 pm

Stylnator wrote:
us3rnam3 wrote:
bitter_melon wrote:
Stylnator wrote:
bitter_melon wrote:
us3rnam3 wrote:This might be a weird question but has anyone had to convince their parents or spouse that law school (t20) is not worth six figure debt. Because mine are fighting me on this and I am at a loss for words...


Yes, same situation. They think that the "prestige" makes it worth it and that "you'll make it all back" and it's like, uhh that's terrible advice.


Just tell them you want to go into 40k/year PI field. That shut my fam up pretty quick


They would NOT be happy with that lol. (Not that they have any bearing on my decision)


Thats exactly what i've been telling them, they won't listen. They think im going to do biglaw and even if I was fortunate enough to do that, the way I live my life it wouldn't happen for more than like 5 years. They're all start struck by "prestige" which is ridicuolus because i'm not even the first person in my family to get a graduate degree or go to law school.


That's really tough, I've had similar experiences from friends as well. I wish I could show everyone TLS to get rid of all the misinformation that gets spread about the legal field.

It's your life, can't let anyone else have that sort of impact on your decisions.




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