Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

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haus
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby haus » Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:11 pm

zeglo wrote:Top MBAs for for getting recruited at McKinsey, etc, not what you said.

Who cares. It is a consulting firm, other than a paycheck, no one wants to work for a consulting firm, as you will never do anything other than write pointless reports that will not be read past the summary.

OP is already making money doing pointless shit, why pay a ton of money and waste a few years of your life to just change gears to a slightly different flavor of pointless shit?

zeglo
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby zeglo » Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:13 pm

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Last edited by zeglo on Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thefatman11
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby thefatman11 » Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:26 pm

haus wrote:
zeglo wrote:Top MBAs for for getting recruited at McKinsey, etc, not what you said.

Who cares. It is a consulting firm, other than a paycheck, no one wants to work for a consulting firm, as you will never do anything other than write pointless reports that will not be read past the summary.

OP is already making money doing pointless shit, why pay a ton of money and waste a few years of your life to just change gears to a slightly different flavor of pointless shit?


in your view, is biglaw also pointless shit? what about most branches of law in general?

tskela
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby tskela » Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:35 pm

OP, I think you'd find what you're looking for in law school, but not necessarily in being a lawyer.

Your numbers are such that law school would not be a financially ruinous decision if you play your cards right. I'd retake the LSAT if I were you just to maximize your scholarship chances (in fact, I actually did retake a 171 myself). Definitely try to save up as much as possible. Half scholly + savings and I don't see you having to go into much debt at all.

What are the chances that you'd be able to get back into sales if you hate biglaw?

Also, have you thought about learning to code in your spare time?

darkjak7
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby darkjak7 » Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:15 pm

tskela wrote:OP, I think you'd find what you're looking for in law school, but not necessarily in being a lawyer.

Your numbers are such that law school would not be a financially ruinous decision if you play your cards right. I'd retake the LSAT if I were you just to maximize your scholarship chances (in fact, I actually did retake a 171 myself). Definitely try to save up as much as possible. Half scholly + savings and I don't see you having to go into much debt at all.

What are the chances that you'd be able to get back into sales if you hate biglaw?

Also, have you thought about learning to code in your spare time?


This is important. OP, law school is certainly intellectually rigorous and stimulating. Being a lawyer usually isn't. That's why many people on here say the transition from law school to biglaw associate is very, very jarring.

If intellectual stimulation is what you're mainly after in a professional career, I'd recommend becoming a professor. You can get a PhD in Economics or Mathematics, or you could go to law school with the ultimate aim of becoming a law professor. Nothing comes close to that.

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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby dabigchina » Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:30 pm

thefatman11 wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
thefatman11 wrote:thanks for the replies everyone, really appreciate it.

I just wanted to run one other concern with you all. I looked deep inside, and realized, that one of the biggest reasons I wanted to go to law school and go into biglaw is that I want to be surrounded by extremely intelligent and knowledgeable peers. All my life, I've been an academic achiever, getting A grades in honors and advanced placement classes, getting into a top college, and performing well academically there.

in the real world, in sales, i work alongside monkeys. they are really not that smart, and have little knowledge. half of them are college dropouts. many of them got trash grades from shit-tier schools. when they talk about politics or other stuff, it's quite evident they don't really think things through well.

it's just...reading on this board, even the off-topic forum, made me feel really at home. i really miss that academic environment where while i was smart, I was surrounded by very smart and accomplished people as well, and we were all knowledgeable, bright, etc., and pushed ourselves to succeed.

the fact that at law school, i'd be competing with people who are just as smart as me (if not more intelligent), and are hard working, makes me really happy compared to the low-education idiots I deal with on a consistent basis.

i know this is shallow, but this was among the biggest reasons of wanting to switch from sales to law. when i put in so much effort to excel academically all throughout my life, i feel my education has been a complete waste when a college jock dropout thinks he's the shit and my equal.

for those working in biglaw, be honest. is it not a plus to work with smart peers? is it not a plus to have bright law school classmates? as opposed to working with idiotic people?


IMO this is not a good reason to go to law school. In any case, are you going to be comfortable with sharing a classroom with someone who went to some no name state school? Because many of your "peers" will be people like that.

Go get an MBA.


I mean, even if they went to no name state schools, I think that's more than compensated by getting a very high GPA and rocking the LSAT. So they'd be worthy of my respect. They'd be at the top 5% or higher at their schools, making them not so far off from the median student at let's say, Cornell.

But I guess you all are right. An MBA seems to be a more efficient path, and one that fits my career history and trajectory better. I can look into strategy roles, corporate development, or management consulting (not as interested in i-banking, although hedge fund and private equity work seems interesting).

I have a 3.4 from a shitty state school but I go to ccn. Where do I fit on your preftige continuum?

in all seriousness, I think you have come to the right conclusion.

thatsnotmyname
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby thatsnotmyname » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:29 pm

sweets91 wrote:
thatsnotmyname wrote:TLDR: DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL.

Please do not go to law school. You will not find what you're looking for in law school. I'm not telling you to continue being a sales professional if you don't think that is what you want to be doing in life either, but based on what you described that you want out of life, you will not find it in law school. People have already discussed in this thread how it's likely that you won't find the work in biglaw to be any more intellectually stimulating and I agree with that based on my discussions with biglaw associates about how tedious and mundane they find their work. But you also mention being Asian American and wanting to do it for the "prestige." I can empathize, but I would tell you that is a horrible thing to be factoring into your calculus.

First of all trying to make a decision off of perceived prestige is a stupid idea, because when it comes right down to it you could've always been doing something that was more prestigious. While you will likely get an immediate "prestige" bump from Asian parents and older Asian people (older people in general) just by being able to say that you're a lawyer, you'll find that that prestige bump is actually nowhere near as high among your fellow, young highly educated college peers. That's due to the fact that at this point it's no secret to most of them that law school and a legal career path in general is a losing proposition and even if you end up in a good spot, there were many easier, more efficient ways to get there that did not involve going to law school. Your peer group will not be impressed. I know people with bachelors degrees working in decent business jobs who automatically judge people who waste three years on law school as idiots for the most part. You say your peers include i-bankers, consultants, doctors, other lawyers. They won't even consider you going to law school to be "prestigious."

Second of all, if it is prestige that you're chasing to impress your Asian parents, that can easily be compensated for with... money. Yes, Asian parents, love their kids going to grad school and professional school so that when they talk about you to other parents they can quickly and easily communicate that they raised a successful child by saying something along the lines of "My son is studying to be a lawyer at Berkeley Law." But you know how else they can communicate they raised a successful kid? Once you buy a mansion and a Ferrari and invite all of your parent's friends over for a party with all of the works, they'll quickly shut the f up. That's when all of your Asian parents friends go back and yell at their Asian kids that so and so's kid only has a bachelors degree and has all of this shit and bought all of this shit for his parents and you're in school to be a cardiologist and you haven't done shit yet. Asian parent behavior is very predictable.

Lastly, I don't think I need to go into this, but what you're considering doing by going to law school is financially idiotic. An absolute financial disaster in the making. It's very likely that you will never make as much money in the law that you're saying that you can make in sales. The opportunity cost of you going to law school is absolutely massive. I won't harp on this because I'm sure that you're aware of it and it seems that the main reason is that you want to leave your current profession because it's not intellectually stimulating enough for you. The truth of the matter is that unless you end up as a professor or philosopher probably no job will ever be intellectually stimulating. Find your sources of intellectual stimulation from outside of work.


Wow...as an Asian American there are so many false stereotypes in your post about Asians (the parenting, the berating of children, the desire to one-up their peers, and the chase of money and prestige) that offend me I don't even know where to begin.
Unfortunately, it seems OP is one of the few Asian Americans who seem to want to fit this stereotype.

Your post is still shit though thatsnotmyname, and idk if you yourself are Asian American, but I'm sorry you buy into all this crap about Asians


I know I'm late on replying to this but I don't check TLS very often, so sorry about the late reply. All I'll say is that I am Asian and this is definitely not bullshit in my experience and applicable to the vast majority of Asians that are raised by parents who are straight from Asia. Your experiences may be different, but just because you've had a different experience than me doesn't make my post bullshit at all. Almost every single Asian American I speak to can relate and get my inside jokes about how it is to grow up Asian, it's not some sort of experience that's isolated to me. Anyways, I will say that it's different for Southeast Asians (Filipinos, Thais, Vietnamese, etc.)... I feel like their experiences with parents are definitely different and not as strict.

Alive97
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby Alive97 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:57 pm

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Last edited by Alive97 on Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

thefatman11
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby thefatman11 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:02 am

At the end of the day, I believe that I'm just craving praise and admiration. When I was attending my Ivy League UG, whenever people asked me what I was doing, or where I was studying, they all lightened up and showered me with my praise when I told them. They were like, "wow, you must be extremely smart." However, now, whenever I tell people I'm just a salesman, they're like, "oh, meh, that's interesting."

I make a lot of money, but people don't automatically respect me, or view me as smart, the way I used to. Meanwhile, my lawyer friends in biglaw, and also management consultants, and i-bankers still get treated well and viewed as highly intelligent when they reveal their professions (and academic history) to others. I think that's the main reason I want to go to law school or become a lawyer- so that my educational attainment and profession will be a heuristic for others to view me as very smart.

Call me a shallow POS, and yes I am, but having lay prestige would bring me subjective happiness, more so than lacking lay prestige but making $$.

Since so many of you are dissuading me from pursuing law school, what other paths do you recommend? I'm not super into academia because I want both lay prestige + $$, so I think corporate law or management consulting gives you the both of best worlds. Maybe an M7 MBA into MBB consulting is the best path for me then.

foregetaboutdre
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby foregetaboutdre » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:36 am

thefatman11 wrote:At the end of the day, I believe that I'm just craving praise and admiration. When I was attending my Ivy League UG, whenever people asked me what I was doing, or where I was studying, they all lightened up and showered me with my praise when I told them. They were like, "wow, you must be extremely smart." However, now, whenever I tell people I'm just a salesman, they're like, "oh, meh, that's interesting."

I make a lot of money, but people don't automatically respect me, or view me as smart, the way I used to. Meanwhile, my lawyer friends in biglaw, and also management consultants, and i-bankers still get treated well and viewed as highly intelligent when they reveal their professions (and academic history) to others. I think that's the main reason I want to go to law school or become a lawyer- so that my educational attainment and profession will be a heuristic for others to view me as very smart.

Call me a shallow POS, and yes I am, but having lay prestige would bring me subjective happiness, more so than lacking lay prestige but making $$.

Since so many of you are dissuading me from pursuing law school, what other paths do you recommend? I'm not super into academia because I want both lay prestige + $$, so I think corporate law or management consulting gives you the both of best worlds. Maybe an M7 MBA into MBB consulting is the best path for me then.


Ever think about getting an MBA and moving into supply chain/operations? You'll have some legitimate targets to make and a lot of it is technical work work. Also for your preffffftige desire - go to Harvard Business School (or the like) and then regularly go to the Harvard Club in whatever city you're in. Plus your sales background is going to help you when you're more senior. A lot of those soft skills you have are critical for C-level positions (esp. CEO).

Biglaw prestige to a non-lawyer might be viewed as "holy shit that's cool" But, SOME corporate biglaw lawyers have an inferiority complex (just look at this board) where they think they are solely getting in the way of business, just pushing paper, doing mindless due diligence etc....

Keilz
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby Keilz » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:44 pm

Phil Brooks wrote:OP, you sound arrogant and insecure at the same time. On the one hand, "I am so much smarter than all the rubes around me who *gasp* didn't go to fancy schools. They are monkeys." Yet on the other hand, "I need to do something prefstigious in order to impress my Asian parents."

Here's an idea: gain real self-esteem by beginning to live your own life, instead of attempting to gain it by looking down on others.

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BlendedUnicorn
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:08 am

Did you ever resolve your dilemma? Because junior biglaw associates are little more than comma placers and the eventual goal is basically to become a salesman again so I'd vote no. Take the 108 hours/week that you're not working and do something intellectual with them and all your money if you want to fill the void.

us3rnam3
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby us3rnam3 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:35 am

why not get a doctorate in something you're actually intrested in or become a college professor. you just want to be intellectulaly stimulated there are plenty of ways to accomplish that without going to law school.

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pancakes3
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby pancakes3 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:03 pm

lol, phd.

lay prestige ruins lives yo.

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Pragmatic Gun
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:07 pm

pancakes3 wrote:lol, phd.

lay prestige ruins lives yo.

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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby Julius » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:09 pm

pancakes3 wrote:itt an ivy grad with latin honors in applied math and econ contemplates LS over 110 base salary plus 90k in commission with upward mobility and shot at 500k.

where is your god now, classical economics?


Well done

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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby Hikikomorist » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:27 am

us3rnam3 wrote:why not get a doctorate in something you're actually intrested in or become a college professor. you just want to be intellectulaly stimulated there are plenty of ways to accomplish that without going to law school.

Professional degrees have more prestige than PhDs. I can rattle off the top MD/MBA/JD programs off the top of my head, but I'd have to check on anything else. PhDs are also supposedly more work than MBA/JDs.

The right answer is obviously to keep making bank doing an easy job, but your idea is even worse for OP's goals.

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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby BasilHallward » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:53 am

thefatman11 wrote:
As someone who went to an ivy league undergrad and got a 3.7 GPA in Applied Math and Economics, I really do miss being in an academic and intellectually stimulating environment, and being surrounded by brilliant peers. Half of my fellow sales reps, while making bank and are social animals, are high school dropouts. A monkey could go do my job, and it's pretty low-skill all things considered. Just find that high school dropout who partied all day and ditched class, got Fs and Ds while flirting with girls and making friends, and instill him a good work ethic, and he would excel at my job.




You well not get the bold in law school, generally; it's pseudo-intellectual. At the end of the day, it's about getting a job. No one cares about the intellectual goodwill after the first month, IMO.


And the italicized sounds great! Sign me up!

thefatman11
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby thefatman11 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:29 pm

hey all,

i honestly want to thank each and every one of you for ur thoughtful responses. i was venting and ranting a lot in my original post, and i appreciate y'all for the clarity you've given me.

i decided against law school and applied for MBA programs instead w/ the GRE score i took a few years ago (i was considering an econ master's). I'm glad to say i'll be attending UChicago Booth's Full-Time MBA program this year. Will aim for MBB consulting.

I really don't mean to come off as condescending, especially on a law schools forum, and I respect the work you all do and your intelligence. But I found out I liked business better than law, and it was a better path for me.

thanks a ton!
-thefatman11

squishylawstudent321
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby squishylawstudent321 » Tue May 16, 2017 11:26 am

thefatman11 wrote:hey all,

i honestly want to thank each and every one of you for ur thoughtful responses. i was venting and ranting a lot in my original post, and i appreciate y'all for the clarity you've given me.

i decided against law school and applied for MBA programs instead w/ the GRE score i took a few years ago (i was considering an econ master's). I'm glad to say i'll be attending UChicago Booth's Full-Time MBA program this year. Will aim for MBB consulting.

I really don't mean to come off as condescending, especially on a law schools forum, and I respect the work you all do and your intelligence. But I found out I liked business better than law, and it was a better path for me.

thanks a ton!
-thefatman11


smart man. law school is an absolutely terrible decision for about 90% of people.

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Johann
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby Johann » Tue May 16, 2017 11:34 am

squishylawstudent321 wrote:
thefatman11 wrote:hey all,

i honestly want to thank each and every one of you for ur thoughtful responses. i was venting and ranting a lot in my original post, and i appreciate y'all for the clarity you've given me.

i decided against law school and applied for MBA programs instead w/ the GRE score i took a few years ago (i was considering an econ master's). I'm glad to say i'll be attending UChicago Booth's Full-Time MBA program this year. Will aim for MBB consulting.

I really don't mean to come off as condescending, especially on a law schools forum, and I respect the work you all do and your intelligence. But I found out I liked business better than law, and it was a better path for me.

thanks a ton!
-thefatman11


smart man. law school is an absolutely terrible decision for about 90% of people.

Npret
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Re: Should I go to law school or continue being a sales professional?

Postby Npret » Tue May 16, 2017 11:42 am

thefatman11 wrote:hey all,

i honestly want to thank each and every one of you for ur thoughtful responses. i was venting and ranting a lot in my original post, and i appreciate y'all for the clarity you've given me.

i decided against law school and applied for MBA programs instead w/ the GRE score i took a few years ago (i was considering an econ master's). I'm glad to say i'll be attending UChicago Booth's Full-Time MBA program this year. Will aim for MBB consulting.

I really don't mean to come off as condescending, especially on a law schools forum, and I respect the work you all do and your intelligence. But I found out I liked business better than law, and it was a better path for me.

thanks a ton!
-thefatman11

It's always great news when the forum helps people make good life decisions. Thanks for posting.




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