to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

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Nekrowizard

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby Nekrowizard » Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:41 am

Capitol_Idea wrote:
Nekrowizard wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Nekrowizard wrote:
SplitMyPants wrote:
Nekrowizard wrote:I wouldn't even call a Ph.D a doctor. If a Ph.D I know insisted on it, I would relentlessly mock them both to their faces and behind their backs. It's either MD or nothing.


Sounds like someone went into grad school for liberal arts... It's alright man, no one here is judging


Hey, I may be an asshole, but at least I'm not so full of myself that I demand to be called a doctor after writing a 200-page dissertation titled "Mutinous Muteness: Radicalizing Illegibility in Twentieth-Century African American Literature."

Lol like you could actually write that.


Pls call me Dr. Dr. Nekrowizard, Esq. in case I ever do though.

Esoteric though some (and really, rather few) fields may be, Ph.Ds will know more about their subject than you will ever know about anything, ever. So unless this isnsome kind of Kanye style pride-in-ignorance shit, there're no grounds for looking down on (or thinking you're equal to) any Ph.D with only a JD to your name.

I certainly don't expect or think that a JD should be called a doctor, nor do I look down on PhDs. I do think it's dumb and kind of pathetic to demand a title when social convention is so obviously against it (see random Dr. HS English teacher).

Aeon wrote:While it's technically correct to call a Ph.D. a doctor, I find it jarring when people insist in mixed company that others call them that.

This was really the only point I was trying to convey initially.

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby toomanymornings » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:49 pm

The only time I've pointed out that it's 'Dr.' rather than 'Mr.' is when I'm on the phone with Comcast. They magically cut down on some of their usual bullshit.

This was a tip I got from another PhD.

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby Hikikomorist » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:55 pm

Capitol_Idea wrote:
Nekrowizard wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Nekrowizard wrote:
SplitMyPants wrote:
Nekrowizard wrote:I wouldn't even call a Ph.D a doctor. If a Ph.D I know insisted on it, I would relentlessly mock them both to their faces and behind their backs. It's either MD or nothing.


Sounds like someone went into grad school for liberal arts... It's alright man, no one here is judging


Hey, I may be an asshole, but at least I'm not so full of myself that I demand to be called a doctor after writing a 200-page dissertation titled "Mutinous Muteness: Radicalizing Illegibility in Twentieth-Century African American Literature."

Lol like you could actually write that.


Pls call me Dr. Dr. Nekrowizard, Esq. in case I ever do though.

Esoteric though some (and really, rather few) fields may be, Ph.Ds will know more about their subject than you will ever know about anything, ever. So unless this isnsome kind of Kanye style pride-in-ignorance shit, there're no grounds for looking down on (or thinking you're equal to) any Ph.D with only a JD to your name.

I think this is taking it quite a bit too far. There are plenty of TTT doctoral programs out there, too. Even a lot of the Ph.D. candidates I know in the social sciences at good schools aren't so amazing that I feel I should look up/feel inferior in comparison to them. Different story with most of the hard-science candidates at good schools, I'll admit.

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby Hand » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:56 pm

toomanymornings wrote:The only time I've pointed out that it's 'Dr.' rather than 'Mr.' is when I'm on the phone with Comcast. They magically cut down on some of their usual bullshit.

This was a tip I got from another PhD.

I'm gonna try this next time I'm on the phone with those clowns

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rpupkin

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby rpupkin » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:56 pm

toomanymornings wrote:The only time I've pointed out that it's 'Dr.' rather than 'Mr.' is when I'm on the phone with Comcast. They magically cut down on some of their usual bullshit.

This was a tip I got from another PhD.

I find it very hard to believe that Comcast support is capable of cutting down on the bullshit. ("Hey Sanjay, the customer on the phone has a PhD--make sure to use the no-bullshit, high-iq script that you'll find in the right-hand desk drawer.")

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby Hikikomorist » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:57 pm

Also, even the best programs have kind of weak standards with regard to GRE medians.

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby ih8makingscreennames » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:01 pm

toomanymornings wrote:The only time I've pointed out that it's 'Dr.' rather than 'Mr.' is when I'm on the phone with Comcast. They magically cut down on some of their usual bullshit.

This was a tip I got from another PhD.


When I am dealing with any customer service online, I make sure that my email signature game is strong. Lol.

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fliptrip

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby fliptrip » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:23 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:Also, even the best programs have kind of weak standards with regard to GRE medians.


I dunno about weak, but even granting you that, they are much harder to get into. For instance, less than 5% of folks get into Harvard's Sociology PhD program each year. That's about half YLS' acceptance rate.

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby Hand » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:32 pm

fliptrip wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:Also, even the best programs have kind of weak standards with regard to GRE medians.


I dunno about weak, but even granting you that, they are much harder to get into. For instance, less than 5% of folks get into Harvard's Sociology PhD program each year. That's about half YLS' acceptance rate.

Likewise, it is way, way harder to get into a good PhD program in Philosophy than it is to get into HYS for law, going simply by the acceptance rate. Many of the top philosophy programs don't even require the GRE, and those that do give it little weight in the admissions program, relying instead on writings samples and recommendations.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:36 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:Also, even the best programs have kind of weak standards with regard to GRE medians.

Nice trolling.

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby DrRighteous » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:43 pm

Yeah my PhD program accepted 1-2 students a year.

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WinterComing

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby WinterComing » Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:15 pm

I work as a magazine editor, and our book follows AP style. According to the AP, the title Dr. should appear only "before the name of an individual who holds a doctor of dental surgery, doctor of medicine, doctor of optometry, doctor of osteopathic medicine, doctor of podiatric medicine, or doctor of veterinary medicine." So all of you Ph.D. folks are out of luck.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:While it's technically correct to call a Ph.D. a doctor, I find it jarring when people insist in mixed company that others call them that.

If you're in a professional setting, it's appropriate to get called by your professional title. If you're not in a professional setting, no one's professional title should matter. (Which is to say I don't know any PhDs who insist on getting called Dr. outside the classroom/a conference/other work place, but I'd be peeved by a medical doctor demanding to be called "doctor" at the local restaurant, too.)


This situational argument is interesting. When I interned at The New York Times years ago, I remember their courtesy title rules taking situation into account. For medical doctors, we called them Dr. Schmoe if they were working as a doctor or Mr./Mrs. Schmoe if they used to be a doctor and retired to run a karaoke joint. With Ph.D.s, we called them Dr. only if they requested it and only if the story pertained to their work in their field. Otherwise, they too got the Mr./Mrs. treatment. (more on the NYT's thoughts on Dr. here: http://afterdeadline.blogs.nytimes.com/ ... tyle/?_r=0 )

Neither the AP guide nor the NYT one, which each at least weigh in one way or the other on Ph.D.s, even mentions the possibility of calling a lawyer a doctor, which I think it telling.

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:08 pm

That is interesting. I guess I wouldn't consider being cited in a magazine quite the same as being addressed in a professional context, though (depending on the magazine, though). Do you use titles very often when referring to people these days? Like if you're quoting the serial killer's downstairs neighbor, is it "Ms. Jane Smith," or just "Jane Smith"?

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby fliptrip » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:41 pm

WinterComing wrote:
Neither the AP guide nor the NYT one, which each at least weigh in one way or the other on Ph.D.s, even mentions the possibility of calling a lawyer a doctor, which I think it telling.


Not surprising. The Newspaper of Record does not traffic in absurdities.

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby QuentonCassidy » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:48 pm

WinterComing wrote:Neither the AP guide nor the NYT one, which each at least weigh in one way or the other on Ph.D.s, even mentions the possibility of calling a lawyer a doctor, which I think it telling.

What the hell am I going to law school for then? I hope my seat deposit is refundable...

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby abogadesq » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:54 pm

The only time I'm ever called "Doctor" is by Hispanic clients. Apparently, lawyers are called doctors in that part of the world.

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby Nekrowizard » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:12 pm

WinterComing wrote:I work as a magazine editor, and our book follows AP style. According to the AP, the title Dr. should appear only "before the name of an individual who holds a doctor of dental surgery, doctor of medicine, doctor of optometry, doctor of osteopathic medicine, doctor of podiatric medicine, or doctor of veterinary medicine." So all of you Ph.D. folks are out of luck.

Sweet vindication.

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby fliptrip » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:15 pm

this is as good a time as any to point out that our word doctor comes from Latin and means "teacher", so who's really got right to the title?

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WinterComing

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby WinterComing » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:50 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:That is interesting. I guess I wouldn't consider being cited in a magazine quite the same as being addressed in a professional context, though (depending on the magazine, though). Do you use titles very often when referring to people these days? Like if you're quoting the serial killer's downstairs neighbor, is it "Ms. Jane Smith," or just "Jane Smith"?


In the magazine, as a rule, we don't use courtesy titles. So the killer would be Jane Smith on first reference and just Smith thereafter. Unless Smith was a medical doctor who was murdering her patients, in which case she would be Dr. Jane Smith on first reference and still just Smith thereafter. The only courtesy title we use is Dr., and we never call anyone Mr. or Ms. unless we're mocking them.

But The Grey Lady, as they call the Times, is among the last papers in the country that still uses courtesy titles for everybody (except athletes in the sports section). Lots of Mr. Snowden and Mr. Obama. So they would call you Ms. Mouse, unless it was an article quoting you about medieval history and you asked to be called Dr.
Last edited by WinterComing on Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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WinterComing

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby WinterComing » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:52 pm

QuentonCassidy wrote:
WinterComing wrote:Neither the AP guide nor the NYT one, which each at least weigh in one way or the other on Ph.D.s, even mentions the possibility of calling a lawyer a doctor, which I think it telling.

What the hell am I going to law school for then? I hope my seat deposit is refundable...


Good thing there's no seat deposit at Harvard.

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby Iam3hunna » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:44 pm

WinterComing wrote:
QuentonCassidy wrote:
WinterComing wrote:Neither the AP guide nor the NYT one, which each at least weigh in one way or the other on Ph.D.s, even mentions the possibility of calling a lawyer a doctor, which I think it telling.

What the hell am I going to law school for then? I hope my seat deposit is refundable...


Good thing there's no seat deposit at Harvard.


Shhhh. He's trying to conceal himself as one of the many commoners that must pay a hefty seat deposit.

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby HYPSM » Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:34 am

Nekrowizard wrote:I wouldn't even call a Ph.D a doctor. If a Ph.D I know insisted on it, I would relentlessly mock them both to their faces and behind their backs. It's either MD or nothing.


This is ridiculous, and I'm not sure what your basis is for thinking this. M.D.s are called doctors because they are medical doctors (which has developed specific connotations due to everyday discourse). Ph.D.s are simply doctors of another discipline. It is very common for Ph.D.s to be called "doctor."

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby eagle2a » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:22 am

No fucking way, a JD is a pretty fucking easy degree to obtain, not to mention pretty fucking useless

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby Nekrowizard » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:25 pm

HYPSM wrote:
Nekrowizard wrote:I wouldn't even call a Ph.D a doctor. If a Ph.D I know insisted on it, I would relentlessly mock them both to their faces and behind their backs. It's either MD or nothing.


This is ridiculous, and I'm not sure what your basis is for thinking this. M.D.s are called doctors because they are medical doctors (which has developed specific connotations due to everyday discourse). Ph.D.s are simply doctors of another discipline. It is very common for Ph.D.s to be called "doctor."


Hey man, don't blame me, blame the AP style guide:

I work as a magazine editor, and our book follows AP style. According to the AP, the title Dr. should appear only "before the name of an individual who holds a doctor of dental surgery, doctor of medicine, doctor of optometry, doctor of osteopathic medicine, doctor of podiatric medicine, or doctor of veterinary medicine." So all of you Ph.D. folks are out of luck.


I mean, yes, they are technically doctors as you say. A JD is a "Doctor of Jurisprudence" as well, though. So if we're going with technicalities, we can all go around demanding to be called Dr. HYPSM and Dr. Nekrowizard. But I think you'll recognize that that's silly and pretentious because it's so far outside of our accepted social norms surrounding titles. It's like if you're at a party, and a PhD in Comp Lit introduced himself as a doctor. I think that would be jarring and pretentious, while wouldn't think twice if an MD did the same.

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Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby fliptrip » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:51 pm

^^ but isn't that a little pretentious even for the MD? You're not really promoting good social relations if you insist on some venerated title upon first meeting someone new. Sounds like a route to not making many friends.



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