to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
SplitMyPants

Gold
Posts: 1649
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:22 pm

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby SplitMyPants » Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:48 pm

Nekrowizard wrote:I wouldn't even call a Ph.D a doctor. If a Ph.D I know insisted on it, I would relentlessly mock them both to their faces and behind their backs. It's either MD or nothing.


Sounds like someone went into grad school for liberal arts... It's alright man, no one here is judging

User avatar
rpupkin

Platinum
Posts: 5658
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby rpupkin » Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:49 pm

SplitMyPants wrote:Sounds like someone went into grad school for liberal arts... It's alright man, noeveryone here is judging

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse

Diamond
Posts: 29317
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:58 pm

ih8makingscreennames wrote:
toomanymornings wrote:
stego wrote:I haven't been through it but I would not say a dissertation defense is that stressful. If you're not ready, your advisor and your PhD committee won't let you defend. It's almost unheard of for someone to fail their defense.


I have been through it and it's pretty stressful. It's essentially two hours of experts in your field telling you the various ways you've fucked up the project you've been working on for two years, and asking you to explain/account for/correct those fuck ups on the spot.

There is no way I would have failed, and you're right that it's rare for anyone to fail, but that doesn't mean it's not hellish and difficult.

The rest of my PhD was pretty chill, for what it's worth, but I don't know that my experience was representative.


If that's your defense, you're doing it wrong. Qualifying was a bitch. That's where I'd expect people to flunk out. By the time I got my degree, I was the expert. No one in that room or the world for that matter, knew more than me about my research. All they could do is ask me questions and why I had not looked at their particular protein/cell type/whatever of interest.

Some dissertations require an original thought. I was talking with another PhD at ASW about this. Do you know how hard it is to have an original thought, test it, and either prove it or see that it failed and come up with one that works (bc science, much to my chagrin, does not believe in negative data). Yeah so with all due respect to MDs (and I've taken some of their classes too), no one understands.

I think this kind of thing varies a little by field/culture/faculty. People are much more likely to fail at the qualifying stage (we called it preliminary exams), but some faculty in some fields see the defense actually as making you defend something. You still know more about it than they do, but it doesn't mean they can't make you suffer.

ih8makingscreennames

Bronze
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:34 pm

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby ih8makingscreennames » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:00 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
ih8makingscreennames wrote:
toomanymornings wrote:
stego wrote:I haven't been through it but I would not say a dissertation defense is that stressful. If you're not ready, your advisor and your PhD committee won't let you defend. It's almost unheard of for someone to fail their defense.


I have been through it and it's pretty stressful. It's essentially two hours of experts in your field telling you the various ways you've fucked up the project you've been working on for two years, and asking you to explain/account for/correct those fuck ups on the spot.

There is no way I would have failed, and you're right that it's rare for anyone to fail, but that doesn't mean it's not hellish and difficult.

The rest of my PhD was pretty chill, for what it's worth, but I don't know that my experience was representative.


If that's your defense, you're doing it wrong. Qualifying was a bitch. That's where I'd expect people to flunk out. By the time I got my degree, I was the expert. No one in that room or the world for that matter, knew more than me about my research. All they could do is ask me questions and why I had not looked at their particular protein/cell type/whatever of interest.

Some dissertations require an original thought. I was talking with another PhD at ASW about this. Do you know how hard it is to have an original thought, test it, and either prove it or see that it failed and come up with one that works (bc science, much to my chagrin, does not believe in negative data). Yeah so with all due respect to MDs (and I've taken some of their classes too), no one understands.

I think this kind of thing varies a little by field/culture/faculty. People are much more likely to fail at the qualifying stage (we called it preliminary exams), but some faculty in some fields see the defense actually as making you defend something. You still know more about it than they do, but it doesn't mean they can't make you suffer.


I could concur with that. I guess I'd actually done a good job of being thorough (and had regular committee meetings) such that the only things they could ask me at that point were theoretical, and I took comfort in knowing that they wouldn't know the answer either.

Nekrowizard

Bronze
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:53 am

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby Nekrowizard » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:14 am

SplitMyPants wrote:
Nekrowizard wrote:I wouldn't even call a Ph.D a doctor. If a Ph.D I know insisted on it, I would relentlessly mock them both to their faces and behind their backs. It's either MD or nothing.


Sounds like someone went into grad school for liberal arts... It's alright man, no one here is judging


Hey, I may be an asshole, but at least I'm not so full of myself that I demand to be called a doctor after writing a 200-page dissertation titled "Mutinous Muteness: Radicalizing Illegibility in Twentieth-Century African American Literature."

User avatar
fliptrip

Gold
Posts: 1879
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:10 pm

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby fliptrip » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:22 am

^^^ Methinks that you and Dr. PhD. here will have a few more differences beyond her insistence you call her doctor. Y'all will probably be best served by leaving each other alone.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse

Diamond
Posts: 29317
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:25 am

Nekrowizard wrote:
SplitMyPants wrote:
Nekrowizard wrote:I wouldn't even call a Ph.D a doctor. If a Ph.D I know insisted on it, I would relentlessly mock them both to their faces and behind their backs. It's either MD or nothing.


Sounds like someone went into grad school for liberal arts... It's alright man, no one here is judging


Hey, I may be an asshole, but at least I'm not so full of myself that I demand to be called a doctor after writing a 200-page dissertation titled "Mutinous Muteness: Radicalizing Illegibility in Twentieth-Century African American Literature."

Lol like you could actually write that.

Nekrowizard

Bronze
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:53 am

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby Nekrowizard » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:33 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Nekrowizard wrote:
SplitMyPants wrote:
Nekrowizard wrote:I wouldn't even call a Ph.D a doctor. If a Ph.D I know insisted on it, I would relentlessly mock them both to their faces and behind their backs. It's either MD or nothing.


Sounds like someone went into grad school for liberal arts... It's alright man, no one here is judging


Hey, I may be an asshole, but at least I'm not so full of myself that I demand to be called a doctor after writing a 200-page dissertation titled "Mutinous Muteness: Radicalizing Illegibility in Twentieth-Century African American Literature."

Lol like you could actually write that.


Pls call me Dr. Dr. Nekrowizard, Esq. in case I ever do though.

User avatar
banjo

Silver
Posts: 1351
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:00 pm

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby banjo » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:41 am

Nekrowizard wrote:
SplitMyPants wrote:
Nekrowizard wrote:I wouldn't even call a Ph.D a doctor. If a Ph.D I know insisted on it, I would relentlessly mock them both to their faces and behind their backs. It's either MD or nothing.


Sounds like someone went into grad school for liberal arts... It's alright man, no one here is judging


Hey, I may be an asshole, but at least I'm not so full of myself that I demand to be called a doctor after writing a 200-page dissertation titled "Mutinous Muteness: Radicalizing Illegibility in Twentieth-Century African American Literature."


I had an English teacher in high school who demanded to be called "Doctor" for a thesis sort of like that. We all did it because we felt sorry for her. She spent 11 years writing it and was now teaching Twelfth Night to a bunch of idiots.


User avatar
jbagelboy

Diamond
Posts: 10253
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:45 am

If a lawyer tried to refer to himself as a doctor (of law), I would most definitely laugh in his face.

User avatar
xael

Platinum
Posts: 7549
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:18 pm

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby xael » Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:53 am

I'm not reading the last 4 pages of what I'm assuming nony responding substantively to trolls but isn't there a doctorate of law degree? There are some nerds here who are here for like a billion years and have to write a thesis or something

User avatar
Clyde Frog

Platinum
Posts: 8978
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 2:27 am

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby Clyde Frog » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:54 am

Pple are practicing gynecology these days without even having gone to med school so I see no reason why you can't call yourself a doctor.


-Dr. Clyde Frog, M.D.

User avatar
jbagelboy

Diamond
Posts: 10253
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:26 am

xael wrote:I'm not reading the last 4 pages of what I'm assuming nony responding substantively to trolls but isn't there a doctorate of law degree? There are some nerds here who are here for like a billion years and have to write a thesis or something


ya a few schools offer a PhD in law

reasonableperson

New
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:01 am

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby reasonableperson » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:36 am

KeYe88 wrote:hey all,

can u give your views and provide solid ground to justify,
:D


Not in the US, and I'd rather be called counsel/ counselor, or lawyer/ attorney.
I know some European countries such as Italy and Germany have a tradition of referring to lawyers as Dr.

User avatar
TLSModBot

Diamond
Posts: 14842
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:54 am

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby TLSModBot » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:39 am

Nekrowizard wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Nekrowizard wrote:
SplitMyPants wrote:
Nekrowizard wrote:I wouldn't even call a Ph.D a doctor. If a Ph.D I know insisted on it, I would relentlessly mock them both to their faces and behind their backs. It's either MD or nothing.


Sounds like someone went into grad school for liberal arts... It's alright man, no one here is judging


Hey, I may be an asshole, but at least I'm not so full of myself that I demand to be called a doctor after writing a 200-page dissertation titled "Mutinous Muteness: Radicalizing Illegibility in Twentieth-Century African American Literature."

Lol like you could actually write that.


Pls call me Dr. Dr. Nekrowizard, Esq. in case I ever do though.

Esoteric though some (and really, rather few) fields may be, Ph.Ds will know more about their subject than you will ever know about anything, ever. So unless this isnsome kind of Kanye style pride-in-ignorance shit, there're no grounds for looking down on (or thinking you're equal to) any Ph.D with only a JD to your name.

User avatar
TLSModBot

Diamond
Posts: 14842
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:54 am

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby TLSModBot » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:43 am

Just to be perfectly clear, my position is each and every JD (myself gleefully included) is stupider than most Ph.Ds and worthy of less respect, both for choosing to go to law school and for the relative value of the degrees.

Hand

Gold
Posts: 3843
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 11:33 am

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby Hand » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:51 am

Capitol_Idea wrote:Just to be perfectly clear, my position is each and every JD (myself gleefully included) is stupider than most Ph.Ds and worthy of less respect, both for choosing to go to law school and for the relative value of the degrees.

nah, I suspect that this J.D. is going to get me a considerably more interesting job than my Ph.D. in an esoteric subject ever would have, despite the fact that the latter was much harder to obtain

User avatar
OLitch

Bronze
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:53 pm

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby OLitch » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:52 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
DrRighteous wrote:NONY IN THE HOUSE

:lol: :lol: PhD-lady-bro-fist bump

And no, law profs aren't called doctors, unless ththe have a PhD or SJD. Law is a weird not really real academic field that doesn't really have any distinctive training/methodology of its own (besides reading cases) and just scavenges from other academic fields.

But law profs make more than almost any other academics, so I doubt they care about the title.

(And yes, my PhD is supremely relevant and marketable.)


You ladies are awesome!

When using written correspondence, a female PhD is listed before her non-PhD spouse. As in, "Dear Dr. Xxx and Mr. Xxx." Unfortunately, so few people follow proper etiquette in this area. If I had a PhD, I would send out Christmas cards just so I could feel like a bad ass with my name listed first. Even my children would be forced to call me Dr. mom.

DrRighteous

Gold
Posts: 2031
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 6:49 am

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby DrRighteous » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:08 am

OLitch wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
DrRighteous wrote:NONY IN THE HOUSE

:lol: :lol: PhD-lady-bro-fist bump

And no, law profs aren't called doctors, unless ththe have a PhD or SJD. Law is a weird not really real academic field that doesn't really have any distinctive training/methodology of its own (besides reading cases) and just scavenges from other academic fields.

But law profs make more than almost any other academics, so I doubt they care about the title.

(And yes, my PhD is supremely relevant and marketable.)


You ladies are awesome!

When using written correspondence, a female PhD is listed before her non-PhD spouse. As in, "Dear Dr. Xxx and Mr. Xxx." Unfortunately, so few people follow proper etiquette in this area. If I had a PhD, I would send out Christmas cards just so I could feel like a bad ass with my name listed first. Even my children would be forced to call me Dr. mom.


<3

My sister addressed her wedding invites to Dr. Righteous and Mr. Idea. She knows what's up.

User avatar
Barack O'Drama

Gold
Posts: 3268
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:21 pm

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:04 am

DCfilterDC wrote:The ABA claims you can, but there is literally no reason anyone ever should.

I had a high school teacher who had a JD and made all students use "Dr. ___"


I had a High School teacher who did the same thing...Looking back now just lol
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Aeon

Silver
Posts: 583
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:46 pm

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby Aeon » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:47 am

Threads on this topic come up every now and again, and they always lead to much amusement.

It's all about context and traditional usage. Until the 19th century, "doctor" traditionally referred to an academic or ecclesiastical doctorate (with some interesting variations). Around the latter half of the 19th century, physicians appropriated the term, because they had begun to be professionally trained in schools which granted the MD. Fast forward to the present, and at least in the United States, "doctor" in ordinary usage refers to physicians.

While it's technically correct to call a Ph.D. a doctor, I find it jarring when people insist in mixed company that others call them that.

User avatar
fliptrip

Gold
Posts: 1879
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:10 pm

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby fliptrip » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:52 am

LOL anytime you have to insist on someone giving you a specific honorific, you've already lost the game. Probably best to just let it ride.

random. "hey, flip! how's it going?"
flip "noooooo, that's Mr. Flip, please and thanks."
random. "fuck you Mr. Flip. Is that better?"

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse

Diamond
Posts: 29317
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:07 am

Aeon wrote:Threads on this topic come up every now and again, and they always lead to much amusement.

It's all about context and traditional usage. Until the 19th century, "doctor" traditionally referred to an academic or ecclesiastical doctorate (with some interesting variations). Around the latter half of the 19th century, physicians appropriated the term, because they had begun to be professionally trained in schools which granted the MD. Fast forward to the present, and at least in the United States, "doctor" in ordinary usage refers to physicians.

While it's technically correct to call a Ph.D. a doctor, I find it jarring when people insist in mixed company that others call them that.

If you're in a professional setting, it's appropriate to get called by your professional title. If you're not in a professional setting, no one's professional title should matter. (Which is to say I don't know any PhDs who insist on getting called Dr. outside the classroom/a conference/other work place, but I'd be peeved by a medical doctor demanding to be called "doctor" at the local restaurant, too.)

jfiaff

New
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:25 am

Re: to be serious, can a jd call him/herself a doctor?

Postby jfiaff » Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:37 am

What if I want to be called Maestro?

By the way, if anyone is thinking about getting a place in Tuscany, don't bother. There's really nothing available.



Return to “Law School FAQ?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests