Which law schools are worth 160k debt?

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brinicolec
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Re: Which law schools are worth 160k debt?

Postby brinicolec » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:11 am

So, this was quite a few pages ago but I saw someone say the average tenure for biglaw is 3 years. Does anyone know why?

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Johann
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Re: Which law schools are worth 160k debt?

Postby Johann » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:50 pm

brinicolec wrote:So, this was quite a few pages ago but I saw someone say the average tenure for biglaw is 3 years. Does anyone know why?

have you read the "a day in the life" thread?

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brinicolec
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Re: Which law schools are worth 160k debt?

Postby brinicolec » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:17 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:
brinicolec wrote:So, this was quite a few pages ago but I saw someone say the average tenure for biglaw is 3 years. Does anyone know why?

have you read the "a day in the life" thread?


So... just because people are unhappy?

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Johann
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Re: Which law schools are worth 160k debt?

Postby Johann » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:05 pm

brinicolec wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
brinicolec wrote:So, this was quite a few pages ago but I saw someone say the average tenure for biglaw is 3 years. Does anyone know why?

have you read the "a day in the life" thread?


So... just because people are unhappy?

during a good economy mostly because of unhappiness. force outs when things arent as good for the group.
but, law is an up or out model. with the annual raise you get every year, you get a higher billable rate that means you have to justify that increased expense to the client. if client's won't pay for you, you are no longer an asset to the firm and asked to leave.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Which law schools are worth 160k debt?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:10 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:
brinicolec wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
brinicolec wrote:So, this was quite a few pages ago but I saw someone say the average tenure for biglaw is 3 years. Does anyone know why?

have you read the "a day in the life" thread?


So... just because people are unhappy?

during a good economy mostly because of unhappiness. force outs when things arent as good for the group.
but, law is an up or out model. with the annual raise you get every year, you get a higher billable rate that means you have to justify that increased expense to the client. if client's won't pay for you, you are no longer an asset to the firm and asked to leave.

And along these same lines, expectations continue to increase as you move up the ladder. Unlike most jobs, if you like being a first year associate making first year associate salary you don't just get to stay at that level and keep doing that work. You're always expected to move up.

gaddockteeg
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Re: Which law schools are worth 160k debt?

Postby gaddockteeg » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:16 am

totesTheGoat wrote:
Some of us graduated from state schools with shit GPA's in useless degrees with no sort of experience besides nonprofessional jobs to keep the lights on in college.


The counterpoint to you is that you shouldn't double down on stupid by taking a $160k gamble to try to get into an awful job that just may allow you to pay your debt off in a decade (if you make it that long in the awful job).

Making poor decisions in undergrad doesn't make it more acceptable to make poor decisions after undergrad.

When you can't pay your bills, the solution generally is not to add more bills to the pile.


Meh. I had a 3.1 out of my big state undergrad in a bogus major. No internships whatsoever. I was in a frat and I literally did nothing for 5 years (took me an extra year to graduate).

Took another year off to "find myself" but I relaly just lived at home at studied LSATs. I did well abd then took another year to apply to schools. Went to a t20 and took on 120k debt - which still isn;t that smart by most standards.

Currently a big law associate making market. there is no way law school wasn't worth it for me.

I agree with you that throwing more money after lost money is not a smart decision, but I think when you have literally zero options, even a 40% chance at a real career is worht it.

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RamTitan
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Re: Which law schools are worth 160k debt?

Postby RamTitan » Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:45 pm

gaddockteeg wrote:
totesTheGoat wrote:
Some of us graduated from state schools with shit GPA's in useless degrees with no sort of experience besides nonprofessional jobs to keep the lights on in college.


The counterpoint to you is that you shouldn't double down on stupid by taking a $160k gamble to try to get into an awful job that just may allow you to pay your debt off in a decade (if you make it that long in the awful job).

Making poor decisions in undergrad doesn't make it more acceptable to make poor decisions after undergrad.

When you can't pay your bills, the solution generally is not to add more bills to the pile.


Meh. I had a 3.1 out of my big state undergrad in a bogus major. No internships whatsoever. I was in a frat and I literally did nothing for 5 years (took me an extra year to graduate).

Took another year off to "find myself" but I relaly just lived at home at studied LSATs. I did well abd then took another year to apply to schools. Went to a t20 and took on 120k debt - which still isn;t that smart by most standards.

Currently a big law associate making market. there is no way law school wasn't worth it for me.

I agree with you that throwing more money after lost money is not a smart decision, but I think when you have literally zero options, even a 40% chance at a real career is worht it.

As someone who is a freelancer that is usually underemployed/unemployed, that makes me feel a lot better about my chances of getting into a good school.

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BizBro
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Re: Which law schools are worth 160k debt?

Postby BizBro » Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:54 pm

Going to law school for 160k is ridiculous yet I'm sure atleast 1/3 of the students at my school are shelling out that much.

Save yourself the money and heartache and just get a practical undergrad degree is what I'd tell college freshmen.

laggyking
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Re: Which law schools are worth 160k debt?

Postby laggyking » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:19 am

So, lots of people r claiming 160k debts is insane. of course, its a lot of money, but without this money how could you pay your tuition? any graduate program in this country costs somewhere around 100K-160K. I was in a top 10 graduate program program, without my parents, I will be in 100K debts at least, with a 45k salary. Even my big boss doesnt make 100k a year. I know people go to harvard design school pays 50k tuition for 2-3 years, and only get a 50k job at boston. I cant imagine how could he pay off hes debts. I mean 160k is a lot, but you get paid almost as triple as other jobs. If you can't handle this, I would suggest you not to go to any graduate school, especially law school and business school. There is no way you get everything you want and give away nothing. Im pretty sure if you have 160k debts, first 10 years would be like living in the hell.after that, you will have a wonderful life. If you dont take out this 160k, get yourself a low paid job, you will be living in the hell for the rest of your life.

cavalier1138
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Re: Which law schools are worth 160k debt?

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:55 am

laggyking wrote:So, lots of people r claiming 160k debts is insane. of course, its a lot of money, but without this money how could you pay your tuition? any graduate program in this country costs somewhere around 100K-160K. I was in a top 10 graduate program program, without my parents, I will be in 100K debts at least, with a 45k salary. Even my big boss doesnt make 100k a year. I know people go to harvard design school pays 50k tuition for 2-3 years, and only get a 50k job at boston. I cant imagine how could he pay off hes debts. I mean 160k is a lot, but you get paid almost as triple as other jobs. If you can't handle this, I would suggest you not to go to any graduate school, especially law school and business school. There is no way you get everything you want and give away nothing. Im pretty sure if you have 160k debts, first 10 years would be like living in the hell.after that, you will have a wonderful life. If you dont take out this 160k, get yourself a low paid job, you will be living in the hell for the rest of your life.


If only law schools had robust scholarship funding that would enable the savvy prospective student to minimize their debt by getting the best numbers they can and strategically leveraging schools against one another to get bigger scholarship offers. If only...

laggyking
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Re: Which law schools are worth 160k debt?

Postby laggyking » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:12 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
laggyking wrote:So, lots of people r claiming 160k debts is insane. of course, its a lot of money, but without this money how could you pay your tuition? any graduate program in this country costs somewhere around 100K-160K. I was in a top 10 graduate program program, without my parents, I will be in 100K debts at least, with a 45k salary. Even my big boss doesnt make 100k a year. I know people go to harvard design school pays 50k tuition for 2-3 years, and only get a 50k job at boston. I cant imagine how could he pay off hes debts. I mean 160k is a lot, but you get paid almost as triple as other jobs. If you can't handle this, I would suggest you not to go to any graduate school, especially law school and business school. There is no way you get everything you want and give away nothing. Im pretty sure if you have 160k debts, first 10 years would be like living in the hell.after that, you will have a wonderful life. If you dont take out this 160k, get yourself a low paid job, you will be living in the hell for the rest of your life.


If only law schools had robust scholarship funding that would enable the savvy prospective student to minimize their debt by getting the best numbers they can and strategically leveraging schools against one another to get bigger scholarship offers. If only...

well, thats true. but compare with some other schools, law student usually has a better future. Most schools like Architecture school, fine arts, or school of education, they cost roughly the same as law school and no scholarship, their students will only get a job with a pathetic salary such as myself. if you compare law school with computer science or engineer schools, its true that law school sucks.

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btruj777
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Re: Which law schools are worth 160k debt?

Postby btruj777 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:48 pm

TheGoat18 wrote:I find it ridiculously bordering on insane to suggest that no law school is worth 160k ever. Unlike many folks on this forum with Ivy undergrad degrees in economics and bulge bracket experience - who are probably idiots for taking out six figure debt for a law degree - quite a few people who take out this debt are making an at least defensible, probably shrewd decision. This is assuming a T14 degree of course.

Some of us graduated from state schools with shit GPA's in useless degrees with no sort of experience besides nonprofessional jobs to keep the lights on in college. I've never worked in an office in my life and now I have a 1L SA lined up that will pay me more money in one summer than some of my friends with equally useless degrees make in an entire year. Certainly more than most of my old work buddies from the service industry make.

Thanks to my unexpected 1L SA I will owe about 120k at repayment according to the LST calculator. You cannot tell me that I, or the many law students like me would be better off as far as lifetime earnings and overall financial security go if we would have pursued low paying entry level office jobs with our liberal arts degrees.

As far as happiness and life enjoyment, well maybe I would have been better off sticking with working in restaurants. But I find it almost impossible to believe that 160k in debt for a T14 degree is not a shrewd investment if you have no other opportunities to break into a high earning field.



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