Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

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EM.C
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Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby EM.C » Fri May 29, 2015 7:55 am

Hi,

I'm 0L who will be attending law school from this fall. :?

Although I have no intention to become a fashion lawyer, I am wondering whether passing patent bar is required for fashion lawyers.

Since IP is a huge part of fashion law, intuitively it appears like an Yes - but I have no clue whether it is true. :roll:

For protecting the design of a smartphone or a wristwatch, background in engineering seems useful.

But for protecting the design of a clothing, I do not think there is much technical knowledge involved.

Can someone answer my question?

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Dr. Review
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby Dr. Review » Fri May 29, 2015 9:37 am

EM.C wrote:Although I have no intention to become a fashion lawyer, I am wondering whether passing patent bar is required for fashion lawyers.
If you don't want to do something, why are you concerned about its requirements for entry?
I have never heard of a 'fashion lawyer'. Pretty sure there is no such thing.

EM.C wrote:Since IP is a huge part of fashion law, intuitively it appears like an Yes - but I have no clue whether it is true. :roll:
IP is a larger and more complex thing than 'patent law or not IP'.

EM.C wrote:For protecting the design of a smartphone or a wristwatch, background in engineering seems useful.
If you are protecting a smartphone chances are you are interested in a large number of different technologies, and are patenting the design (which is not, strictly speaking, engineering based), hardware components (heavy on EE, with some materials and ME), and potentially software components (CS/EE and/or copyright). If you are a patent or IP attorney assisting a client (or the company where you work) in pursuing one or more patents, you will NEED a science/engineering degree, as it is a prerequisite for practicing before the USPTO.

EM.C wrote:But for protecting the design of a clothing, I do not think there is much technical knowledge involved.
If regular/routine clothing and outerwear is even eligible for a design patent (not 100% sure, as I have not encountered it in my practice), technical knowledge is not the barrier. Being able to practice before the USPTO is the barrier. As stated above, a science/engineering degree is a prerequisite for the patent bar.

EM.C wrote:Can someone answer my question?
No, because it makes no sense.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Sat May 30, 2015 1:59 am

Is fashion law a thing

EM.C
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby EM.C » Sat May 30, 2015 9:13 am

I should have worded my question better but Dr.Review's reply was not very nice.

I don't think one has to have intention to practice to care about a legal subject.

But I still wish to thank you for writing some answers to my thread.

I am a newcomer to this TLS forum but even with few days of observing, I can surely conclude this forum is filled with trollings and sarcasm.

One assistant professor (lawyering) from NYU was introduced as an active voice in the field of fashion law, so I guessed there was something like fashion law. Since Finnegan's website stated fashion designers could utilize design patents, I had to think there were some patent lawyers who were filing those design patents. It was natural to me to wonder whether lawyers representing fashion house like Ralph Lauren and Louis Vuitton were typically patent lawyers.

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POTUSorSCOTUS
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby POTUSorSCOTUS » Sun May 31, 2015 11:02 am


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BeautyAndTheBrief
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby BeautyAndTheBrief » Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:56 am

I apologize if I cannot answer your question thoroughly, but I just wanted to chime in and say that I know what you meant by Fashion Law & Fashion Lawyer, so don't feel like you said something stupid because of the responses that you received. While Fashion Law may not be a big thing currently (seeing that it is a fairly new field), some LS are introducing fashion law courses.

Moving along, from the research I have done, the paths for lawyers in the fashion industry vary. IP is a common one, but not the only way to go. Seeing that not all lawyers in fashion focused on the IP route, I would think that the answer to your question is no- lawyers that practice in fashion are not necessarily patent lawyers.

Again, sorry for not being able to answer your question with certainty, but I still felt it necessary to comment in your defense. Here's an interesting read that showcases various career paths in FASHION LAW.

http://fashionlawcenter.com/?page_id=1061

rdawkins28
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby rdawkins28 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:06 am

We do general business law for small companies. One of them is a clothing company. Other than IP issues, the legal work we do is about the same as what we do for other small businesses. The IP issues come up about once a year. If it's something beyond a simple cease-and-desist letter, we normally tell our clients to use IP lawyers. The opposing sides also tend to use IP specific law firms, some small and some large.

grizz20
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby grizz20 » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:52 am

OP:

I did see a PLI newsletter about "fashion law." Didnt read it but probably falls within patents or trademarks. To work in patent litigation you don't have to sit for the patent bar, but it helps. Patent prosecution...must sit for it.

Don't take it as insults. It is just straight-shooting.

totesTheGoat
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby totesTheGoat » Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:56 pm

EM.C wrote:I should have worded my question better but Dr.Review's reply was not very nice.


Lawyers and law professors tend to not be very nice, especially when clarity of communication is an issue.

I don't think one has to have intention to practice to care about a legal subject.


Right, but sometimes when you ask questions that can be answered by a 10 minute google search, knowing why you're asking helps us cut to the chase.

I am a newcomer to this TLS forum but even with few days of observing, I can surely conclude this forum is filled with trollings and sarcasm.


welcome to law school. You need thick skin or they're gonna eat you alive.

One assistant professor (lawyering) from NYU was introduced as an active voice in the field of fashion law, so I guessed there was something like fashion law. Since Finnegan's website stated fashion designers could utilize design patents, I had to think there were some patent lawyers who were filing those design patents. It was natural to me to wonder whether lawyers representing fashion house like Ralph Lauren and Louis Vuitton were typically patent lawyers.



IP = Patent, Trademark, Copyright, Trade Secrets

You need to be registered to practice at the USPTO do to patents... thus it being called the patent bar.

While there are design patents, things like fashion are generally protected by trademark and copyright. You don't need the patent bar to practice trademark and copyright law.

Patent lawyers are not the same as copyright and trademark lawyers. However, it may be advantageous, depending on what the "fashion" is, to have a USPTO registered patent attorney, in case filing design patents makes sense.

grizz20
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby grizz20 » Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:51 pm

Just to be clear, you only have to pass the patent bar if you want to do prosecution work. Patent litigators are not confined by this.

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lacrossebrother
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby lacrossebrother » Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:53 pm

grizz20 wrote:Just to be clear, you only have to pass the patent bar if you want to do prosecution or administrative litigation work. Patent litigators are not confined by this perhaps technically required to, but in fact, largely do, become certified patent attorneys .

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rpupkin
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby rpupkin » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:14 pm

lacrossebrother wrote:
grizz20 wrote:Just to be clear, you only have to pass the patent bar if you want to do prosecution or administrative litigation work. Patent litigators are not confined by this perhaps technically required to, but in fact, largely do, become certified patent attorneys .

Your first correction is misleading: for reexam stuff you can still work on (and have your name appear on) the briefs you file with PTAB. But one of the attorneys will need to be a member of the patent bar. Your second correction is misleading as well. It's not just "technically" true that one can do patent lit without a patent reg number; many attorneys who do patent lit, including some of the leading patent litigators in the country, are not (and will never be) members of the patent bar.

When someone posts a correct statement, don't redline it with your own ignorant edits.

grizz20
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby grizz20 » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:18 pm

lacrossebrother wrote:
grizz20 wrote:Just to be clear, you only have to pass the patent bar if you want to do prosecution or administrative litigation work. Patent litigators are not confined by this perhaps technically required to, but in fact, largely do, become certified patent attorneys .


Good catch on the admin lit. Most the patent litigators I worked with as SA only went to Art III courts and a little over half were registered, some of the others thinking about it, and the rest not.

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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby grizz20 » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:22 pm

rpupkin wrote:
lacrossebrother wrote:
grizz20 wrote:Just to be clear, you only have to pass the patent bar if you want to do prosecution or administrative litigation work. Patent litigators are not confined by this perhaps technically required to, but in fact, largely do, become certified patent attorneys .

Your first correction is misleading: for reexam stuff you can still work on (and have your name appear on) the briefs you file with PTAB. But one of the attorneys will need to be a member of the patent bar. Your second correction is misleading as well. It's not just "technically" true that one can do patent lit without a patent reg number; many attorneys who do patent lit, including some of the leading patent litigators in the country, are not (and will never be) members of the patent bar.

When someone posts a correct statement, don't redline it with your own ignorant edits.


Thanks for the backing rpupkin. Was disheartened by thinking I was misleading people.

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lacrossebrother
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby lacrossebrother » Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:46 pm

rpupkin wrote:
lacrossebrother wrote:
grizz20 wrote:Just to be clear, you only have to pass the patent bar if you want to do prosecution or administrative litigation work. Patent litigators are not confined by this perhaps technically required to, but in fact, largely do, become certified patent attorneys .

Your first correction is misleading: for reexam stuff you can still work on (and have your name appear on) the briefs you file with PTAB. But one of the attorneys will need to be a member of the patent bar. Your second correction is misleading as well. It's not just "technically" true that one can do patent lit without a patent reg number; many attorneys who do patent lit, including some of the leading patent litigators in the country, are not (and will never be) members of the patent bar.

When someone posts a correct statement, don't redline it with your own ignorant edits.

TLS makes it seem like it's a waste of time to take the patent bar if you want to be a patent litigator. Your observation that older partners might not be patent barred is hugely irrelevant.

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lacrossebrother
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby lacrossebrother » Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:47 pm

And by your logic, you don't have to go to law school if you wanna do patent pros.

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rpupkin
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby rpupkin » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:09 pm

lacrossebrother wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
lacrossebrother wrote:
grizz20 wrote:Just to be clear, you only have to pass the patent bar if you want to do prosecution or administrative litigation work. Patent litigators are not confined by this perhaps technically required to, but in fact, largely do, become certified patent attorneys .

Your first correction is misleading: for reexam stuff you can still work on (and have your name appear on) the briefs you file with PTAB. But one of the attorneys will need to be a member of the patent bar. Your second correction is misleading as well. It's not just "technically" true that one can do patent lit without a patent reg number; many attorneys who do patent lit, including some of the leading patent litigators in the country, are not (and will never be) members of the patent bar.

When someone posts a correct statement, don't redline it with your own ignorant edits.

TLS makes it seem like it's a waste of time to take the patent bar if you want to be a patent litigator. Your observation that older partners might not be patent barred is hugely irrelevant.

I didn't say that it was a waste of time to take the patent bar if you want to be a patent litigator. As for your next sentence, it's not just "older partners" there are successful: there are successful patent litigators at every level (senior associates, junior partners, mid-level partners). Oh, and your next post—"and by your logic, you don't have to go to law school if you wanna do patent pros"—is completely unintelligible.

I don't understand why the mods tolerate you. They forced DaRascal into lounge jail, but they allow your little aspie-retard schtick to contaminate the on-topics. It's a mystery.

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lacrossebrother
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby lacrossebrother » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:15 am

youre a legit dick and not very smart. I made normal corrections. And you try to outsmart me by saying "you can just ghostwrite/pro hac your entire career." And then you call me names. Not sure what your deal is--

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lacrossebrother
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby lacrossebrother » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:24 am

What percent of fish litigation associates are patent barred?

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rpupkin
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby rpupkin » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:34 am

lacrossebrother wrote:What percent of fish litigation associates are patent barred?

I don't know, but I assume it's close to 100%. I believe that Fish likes for its junior associates to do some prosecution early in their careers even if their long-term goals involve patent lit. Other patent boutiques (like Finnegan and Knobbe) are probably similar.

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lacrossebrother
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby lacrossebrother » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:38 am

Well that was my point. You don't need to, ok, but it's limiting.

grizz20
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby grizz20 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:38 pm

I think none of the lawyer's at Fish in Houston are USPTO-registered.

Also, you don't have to be a lawyer to be USPTO-registered.

I am in the process of taking the Patent Bar, but I just wanted to let OP know what I heard and the rule that you don't have to be registered to do litigation in an Article III court.

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lacrossebrother
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby lacrossebrother » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:10 pm

grizz20 wrote:I think none of the lawyer's at Fish in Houston are USPTO-registered.

Also, you don't have to be a lawyer to be USPTO-registered.

I am in the process of taking the Patent Bar, but I just wanted to let OP know what I heard and the rule that you don't have to be registered to do litigation in an Article III court.

Actually, their website is very useful for this exact search.
5/11 Fish's lawyers in Houston are USPTO. 4/5 are self-characterized litigators.
Last edited by lacrossebrother on Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Desert Fox
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DFTHREAD

Postby Desert Fox » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:17 pm

Image
Last edited by Desert Fox on Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rpupkin
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Re: Passing patent bar required for fashion lawyers?

Postby rpupkin » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:26 pm

Desert Fox wrote:What can you even patent in the fashion world? Are there design patents on purses and shit?

Actually, yes. And jackets and shirts and jewelry. You can basically get a design patent on anything.




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