JD as Dr.

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firemed
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby firemed » Mon May 16, 2011 12:46 pm

Desert Fox wrote:1) EMTs >> dude who touches your balls then charges your HMO 100 dollars for the honor.

2) He said only those, not necessary that all those deserve the title.


So you want me to touch your balls? :twisted:

aliarrow
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby aliarrow » Mon May 16, 2011 1:52 pm

Things were slow without you, Firemed :lol:

Skyhook
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby Skyhook » Mon May 16, 2011 4:59 pm

Some insight based on UK academics...

You enter university normally having specialized in 3 or 4 subjects from age 16 to 18.
Should you want to get higher degrees:
BSc/BA --> Masters --> PhD

For scientists, you can often skip the Masters level. Even so, the courses for your degree are much more specialized than those needed in the US. So yes, PhD's deserve the title Dr., they have worked for it.
In an academic department, the only people who get called Professor are those with tenure. Everyone else is likely to be called Dr.
In the US, the default seems to be to call everyone in an academic department Professor - convention and safe respectful term I suppose.
Calling someone Mr when you know full well they have a PhD is simply disrespectful. Mr Evil? :twisted:

For UK medicine, you have to about 5 years undergrad, then some rotations (memory a little fuzzy). Again, much more specialized from the time you start the program.
If you have a medical undergrad degree, you get to be called Dr.
If you become a surgeon in the UK, your title once again becomes Mr (historical reasons).
But make no mistake, everyone knows the level of respect a surgeon deserves, so being called Mr is no insult.

Lawyers. Well, they get to do an LLB for 3 years as others have mentioned. Then there is the training period of about 2 years, solicitor or barrister track. (Again, sketchy memory). No lawyer in the UK would have the title Dr unless they happened to have a medical degree or PhD.

My $0.02, or even £0.02, the JD is only the equivalent of an LLB, just with a different set of letters to show that it is not an undergrad qualification. The US system makes you take 4 years of undergrad with a load of non-specialized courses. A JD is in no way the equivalent of a PhD or medical degree, in either the UK or US system.

Calling yourself Dr with a JD just makes you look self-important.

dakatz
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby dakatz » Mon May 16, 2011 5:04 pm

Lol at calling a JD "doctor". Sure, they do that in South America, so I have this one cousin who jokes around how people call him that back at home. But I don't even call Ph.D. people "doctor" (and among those I know, they would feel too pretentious being called that by people outside of academic circles anyway). This is essentially a professional school that is clothed in pseudo-academia. But at the end of the day, its still just a professional degree.

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masochist
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby masochist » Mon May 16, 2011 5:43 pm

dakatz wrote: I don't even call Ph.D. people "doctor" (and among those I know, they would feel too pretentious being called that by people outside of academic circles anyway).


TITCR

People who issue healthcare related orders need to be called "dr" because it serves a function. Nobody else needs to be called "doctor" for any reason besides pretention. Anyone who insists upon it outside of a professional medical environment is a huge tool.

Nobody is going to get pissed if you choose to call someone with a Ph.D. "doctor," but that is probably not what they call themselves. I guess you could call someone with a JD "doctor," but that would be odd. Call your professors "professor." It is much harder to get an academic appointment than a doctoral degree anyway, so they probably consider "professor" a greater honor.

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ResolutePear
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby ResolutePear » Mon May 16, 2011 5:56 pm

masochist wrote:
dakatz wrote: I don't even call Ph.D. people "doctor" (and among those I know, they would feel too pretentious being called that by people outside of academic circles anyway).


TITCR

People who issue healthcare related orders need to be called "dr" because it serves a function. Nobody else needs to be called "doctor" for any reason besides pretention. Anyone who insists upon it outside of a professional medical environment is a huge tool.

Nobody is going to get pissed if you choose to call someone with a Ph.D. "doctor," but that is probably not what they call themselves. I guess you could call someone with a JD "doctor," but that would be odd. Call your professors "professor." It is much harder to get an academic appointment than a doctoral degree anyway, so they probably consider "professor" a greater honor.


WHAT do you call somebody with a PhD, then?

A Doctor is just one who teaches. The fact that you have to write a dissertation simply fulfills that requirement in my book. Through their research, they have taught and contributed to their field, furthering knowledge. Because of this, not all PhD's are equal though.

aliarrow
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby aliarrow » Mon May 16, 2011 6:01 pm

What I'd like to know is why this three year old thread keeps popping up

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ResolutePear
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby ResolutePear » Mon May 16, 2011 6:03 pm

aliarrow wrote:What I'd like to know is why this three year old thread keeps popping up


Quiet woman. Men are talking! *backhand*

09042014
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby 09042014 » Mon May 16, 2011 6:04 pm

aliarrow wrote:What I'd like to know is why this three year old thread keeps popping up


Butt hurt failure premeds.

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ResolutePear
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby ResolutePear » Mon May 16, 2011 6:06 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
aliarrow wrote:What I'd like to know is why this three year old thread keeps popping up


Butt hurt failure premeds.


For the record, I failed before I even considered premed.

aliarrow
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby aliarrow » Mon May 16, 2011 6:11 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
aliarrow wrote:What I'd like to know is why this three year old thread keeps popping up


Quiet woman. Men are talking! *backhand*


Image
Image

Butt hurt failure premeds.


It doesn't even seem that hard to eventually get into a med school if you have some intelligence. There are plenty of post-bacs or even Caribbean schools. If you want to be a Dr., go become a Doctor.

Skyhook
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby Skyhook » Mon May 16, 2011 6:15 pm

People with a JD calling themselves Dr probably just have a lot of debt, self-image issues, or want to score.

aliarrow
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby aliarrow » Mon May 16, 2011 6:16 pm

Skyhook wrote:People with a JD calling themselves Dr probably just have a lot of debt, self-image issues, or want to score.


ding ding ding ding ding ding ding

Skyhook
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby Skyhook » Mon May 16, 2011 6:20 pm

aliarrow wrote:
Skyhook wrote:People with a JD calling themselves Dr probably just have a lot of debt, self-image issues, or want to score.


ding ding ding ding ding ding ding


Wasn't too hard now, was it?!

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geoduck
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby geoduck » Mon May 16, 2011 6:38 pm

It's really a fluke of English that "Doctor" is mostly applied here to medical professionals while there is confusion as to whether academics deserve the title. Some of the earliest doctorates ever available were legal doctorates in the 12th century and the academic study of Roman Law was a doctoral study for most of the history since. In fact, if you go to a Spanish or Portugese speaking country with your JD, you will very possibly still be referred to as "Doctor". The reason that we have issue with this is that England used (and still does to an extent) an apprenticeship system for common law rather than full academic study like the rest of Europe. It was a return to the scientific study of law that caused Harvard to turn back to the european styling and borrow from the German Juris Utriuesque Doctor, which was a doctor of both church and civil law. Since they just had one law to learn, common, they dropped the Utriuesque.

It just so happens that in the US, the first professional doctorate to be offered was the MD in 1767. The PhD wasn't created (as a borrowed title from the German system, just like the JD) until 1861 and the JD in 1870. Americans just got used to the only people with doctorate degrees being medical or scientific professionals and have completely ignored the history of the term. So if you have a Juris Doctor, you're a Doctor. But you'll still sound like a douche if you insist on using it as a title in the US. That's what Esquire is for.

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masochist
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby masochist » Mon May 16, 2011 8:04 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
WHAT do you call somebody with a PhD, then?

.


By their first name if appropriate, professor if they have an academic appointment, or "dickhead" if you are referring to me.

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ResolutePear
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby ResolutePear » Mon May 16, 2011 8:31 pm

masochist wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
WHAT do you call somebody with a PhD, then?

.


By their first name if appropriate, professor if they have an academic appointment, or "dickhead" if you are referring to me.


I quoted this, because it might come in handy should we ever get into a fight.

aliarrow
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby aliarrow » Mon May 16, 2011 8:33 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
masochist wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
WHAT do you call somebody with a PhD, then?

.


By their first name if appropriate, professor if they have an academic appointment, or "dickhead" if you are referring to me.


I quoted this, because it might come in handy should we ever get into a fight.


How you get so much swag, Resolute God?

firemed
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby firemed » Mon May 16, 2011 8:34 pm

geoduck wrote:ly people with doctorate degrees being medical or scientific professionals and have completely ignored the history of the term. So if you have a Juris Doctor, you're a Doctor. But you'll still sound like a douche if you insist on using it as a title in the US. That's what Esquire is for.



To be fair, if you insisted on being called "Esquire" in public you would also be a douche.

On letters, yes. In conversation, no- you are a douchenozzle.

aliarrow
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby aliarrow » Mon May 16, 2011 8:35 pm

firemed wrote:
geoduck wrote:ly people with doctorate degrees being medical or scientific professionals and have completely ignored the history of the term. So if you have a Juris Doctor, you're a Doctor. But you'll still sound like a douche if you insist on using it as a title in the US. That's what Esquire is for.



To be fair, if you insisted on being called "Esquire" in public you would also be a douche.

On letters, yes. In conversation, no- you are a douchenozzle.


Is it weird that I just hate the term Esquire? It pisses me off every time I have to write it and I think I'd get upset when people call me that.

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AreJay711
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby AreJay711 » Mon May 16, 2011 8:38 pm

aliarrow wrote:
firemed wrote:
geoduck wrote:ly people with doctorate degrees being medical or scientific professionals and have completely ignored the history of the term. So if you have a Juris Doctor, you're a Doctor. But you'll still sound like a douche if you insist on using it as a title in the US. That's what Esquire is for.



To be fair, if you insisted on being called "Esquire" in public you would also be a douche.

On letters, yes. In conversation, no- you are a douchenozzle.


Is it weird that I just hate the term Esquire? It pisses me off every time I have to write it and I think I'd get upset when people call me that.


I wouldn't get upset but I'd never call myself that.

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ResolutePear
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby ResolutePear » Mon May 16, 2011 8:41 pm

aliarrow wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
masochist wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
WHAT do you call somebody with a PhD, then?

.


By their first name if appropriate, professor if they have an academic appointment, or "dickhead" if you are referring to me.


I quoted this, because it might come in handy should we ever get into a fight.


How you get so much swag, Resolute God?

Image

I couldn't find a lolwut pear baking brownies.

firemed
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby firemed » Mon May 16, 2011 9:27 pm

aliarrow wrote:
firemed wrote:
geoduck wrote:ly people with doctorate degrees being medical or scientific professionals and have completely ignored the history of the term. So if you have a Juris Doctor, you're a Doctor. But you'll still sound like a douche if you insist on using it as a title in the US. That's what Esquire is for.



To be fair, if you insisted on being called "Esquire" in public you would also be a douche.

On letters, yes. In conversation, no- you are a douchenozzle.


Is it weird that I just hate the term Esquire? It pisses me off every time I have to write it and I think I'd get upset when people call me that.



Is it weird that I think I would like to be called that in correspondence? Not in conversation, obviously since that would feel weird. But on letters I think it would be kind of fun.

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girlonfire
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby girlonfire » Mon May 16, 2011 9:34 pm

FWIW, they call all lawyers "Doctors" where I'm from (Dominican Republic), like "Dr. so&so"

also, I only read the 1st & last page of TT so whatever. & as always, I salute you, Master Pear.

03121202698008
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue May 17, 2011 12:16 am

firemed wrote:
aliarrow wrote:
firemed wrote:
geoduck wrote:ly people with doctorate degrees being medical or scientific professionals and have completely ignored the history of the term. So if you have a Juris Doctor, you're a Doctor. But you'll still sound like a douche if you insist on using it as a title in the US. That's what Esquire is for.



To be fair, if you insisted on being called "Esquire" in public you would also be a douche.

On letters, yes. In conversation, no- you are a douchenozzle.


Is it weird that I just hate the term Esquire? It pisses me off every time I have to write it and I think I'd get upset when people call me that.



Is it weird that I think I would like to be called that in correspondence? Not in conversation, obviously since that would feel weird. But on letters I think it would be kind of fun.


I've never heard someone orally called esquire...only in correspondence. Most lawyers use it...




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