JD as Dr.

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
lmfao
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby lmfao » Sun May 15, 2011 5:44 pm

ThomasMN wrote:
Bartlebee06 wrote:It takes a lot to get a PhD, so in academia they deserve to be called that. Outside of that setting the only people who should be called "Doctor" are MD's. As far as J.D. is concerned, being called attorney, lawyer, counselor, etc. is prestigious enough. Leave the doctor connotation to the people who worked 100 hrs.+ to get through residency and have the ability to hand out narcotics.

By 100 hrs.+ I meant per week.


You know, some people have such a love affair with MD's, I don't really get it. Sure there are people who become doctors to help and heal people, but there are also people who enter a dozen other professions - that don't get paid anywhere near six figures - that help people as well. Looking at how the medical profession in America treats the rest of the population does not exactly engender a lot of respect.

Anyone who demands to be called a certain title might - emphasis on might - be a douche, but you're also a disrespectful douche bag if you can't extend someone the courtesy to address them by their formal title. I know its unthinkable for people to think that someone might actually like to be treated with respect. That being said, don't go telling people to refer to you as Dr. so and so when you have a JD. At the very most you might ask to be referred to as Mr. or Mrs. when in a professional environment etc.


Holy sh1t, I think I found my soulmate. Great post Thomas!

ResolutePear wrote:If law ceased to exist, then the JD would be worthless.
If we invented a self-repairing car, we would no longer need mechanics.
If we invented a self-flipping hamburger, we would no longer need burger flippers.
If all people became immortal, then the MD would be worthless.

Taking bets on which one is least likely.


Who is responsible for most scientific and medical breakthroughs? JDs, MDs or PhDs? Tough one.....

aliarrow
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby aliarrow » Sun May 15, 2011 5:45 pm

lmfao wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:If law ceased to exist, then the JD would be worthless.
If we invented a self-repairing car, we would no longer need mechanics.
If we invented a self-flipping hamburger, we would no longer need burger flippers.
If all people became immortal, then the MD would be worthless.

Taking bets on which one is least likely.


Who is responsible for most scientific and medical breakthroughs? JDs, MDs or PhDs? Tough one.....


JDs due to strict Patent laws.

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ResolutePear
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby ResolutePear » Sun May 15, 2011 5:46 pm

lmfao wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:If law ceased to exist, then the JD would be worthless.
If we invented a self-repairing car, we would no longer need mechanics.
If we invented a self-flipping hamburger, we would no longer need burger flippers.
If all people became immortal, then the MD would be worthless.

Taking bets on which one is least likely.


Who is responsible for most scientific and medical breakthroughs? JDs, MDs or PhDs? Tough one.....


Where the fuck does a PhD come in in my scenario?

It's like betting it all on blue in roulette. lmfao.

lmfao
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby lmfao » Sun May 15, 2011 5:50 pm

aliarrow wrote:
lmfao wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:If law ceased to exist, then the JD would be worthless.
If we invented a self-repairing car, we would no longer need mechanics.
If we invented a self-flipping hamburger, we would no longer need burger flippers.
If all people became immortal, then the MD would be worthless.

Taking bets on which one is least likely.


Who is responsible for most scientific and medical breakthroughs? JDs, MDs or PhDs? Tough one.....


JDs due to strict Patent laws.


ResolutePear wrote:Where the fuck does a PhD come in in my scenario?

It's like betting it all on blue in roulette. lmfao.


you guys are funny :)

09042014
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby 09042014 » Sun May 15, 2011 6:01 pm

Science PhD's and medical researchers. NOT MDs. MDs are like mechanics. They just fix the problems with methods they memorized. Very few MD's are innovators.

lmfao
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby lmfao » Sun May 15, 2011 6:03 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Science PhD's and medical researchers. NOT MDs. MDs are like mechanics. They just fix the problems with methods they memorized. Very few MD's are innovators.


A+ :wink:

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kapachino
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby kapachino » Sun May 15, 2011 6:11 pm

I had a couple JDs for my poli sci courses, and everyone referred to them as "Dr."

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dr123
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby dr123 » Sun May 15, 2011 6:12 pm

kapachino wrote:I had a couple JDs for my poli sci courses, and everyone referred to them as "Dr."


What douches, fuck any teacher who prefers to be called anything other than their damn name.

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kapachino
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby kapachino » Sun May 15, 2011 6:19 pm

dr123 wrote:
kapachino wrote:I had a couple JDs for my poli sci courses, and everyone referred to them as "Dr."


What douches, fuck any teacher who prefers to be called anything other than their damn name.



Dude, read what I actually said. They didn't call themselves that, their students just lumped them in with the Ph.Ds and called them "Dr.". It was a matter of respect, since they were two of the most popular profs.

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dr123
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby dr123 » Sun May 15, 2011 6:21 pm

Oh, okay, at my UG it was the opposite the teachers would get pissed if we reffered to them as Dr. or Professor and not their first name

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IzziesGal
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby IzziesGal » Sun May 15, 2011 6:25 pm

Didn't read first six pages....

....but my cousin is a lawyer and he goes by "Dr." at the university he teaches at. Me and pretty much everyone in my family make fun of him mercilessly for this.

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niederbomb
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby niederbomb » Mon May 16, 2011 12:10 am

USCtrojan86 wrote:I will admit right up front that I've never taken a single class towards earning either a JD or a PhD/MD degree, but based on the numerous people that I have seen and known who have, I'm going to come out and make an official proclamation:

Anyone who thinks that the work that goes into taking the LSATs/getting a JD/passing the bar is in any way, shape or form even remotely comparable to the work that goes into taking the MCATs/earning an MD/interning is either demonstrably insane or unfathomably uninformed and idiotic. It's like comparing the NY Yankees to some minor league team stuck out in Podunk, ND. MD's earned the hell out of that title; JD's don't even deserve the laughs that they should rightfully get if they try and claim it.

PhD's fall somewhere in the middle; many PhD tracks are as difficult as (some are probably even more difficult than) the path to MD; some (cough cough you know who you are) are probably easier than a challenging Masters program. For the most part, however, I'm going to say that the sheer level of commitment and temerity that needs to be displayed to get any PhD (solid grounding in related and relevant coursework at a Bachelors and possibly Masters level, years and years of taking fairly to ridiculously advanced classes, dissertations and all the other ephemera that can be thrown as requirements just to make life hell) once again vastly outweigh anything involved in the JD. How many people graduate with a bachelors and decide to get a PhD in even the easiest and most BS-able subject on a whim? How many people graduate with a bachelors and decide to get a JD on a whim- and end up going to a T3 or T6 school to boot?

It's just not close. The JD is a joke degree compared to either a PhD or an MD, and is therefore is completely undeserving of the title of Doctorate or the "Dr." signifier. Compare the number of dental/medical schools in this country with the number of law schools...do you really want to be calling the kid that almost failed out of Cooley "Dr. So-and-so"?

That's why God invented LLM's and other advanced legal degrees.


I agree in principle. However, I know there are some joke doctorate degrees out there, too, like the one my aunt got in order to get an Air Force promotion.

A "JD" is just another designation for the old LL.b that most Commonwealth countries still use. Basically, if you wanted to study law, you went to university for 3 years and studied law. Then you became a lawyer after 1 or more years of apprenticeship (the PCLL in Hong Kong or the "articling" in Canada are remnants). In the U.S., most academic institutions changed the law degree into a post-graduate qualification after the pay of lawyers outstripped the pay of other Bachelor degrees. However, the nature of the degree has not changed. Evidence? Many countries, including Canada, Singapore, and Hong Kong, have simply changed the name of "LLB" to "JD" in recent years to become more "Americanized" without changing the content of the underlying programs.

Thus, a JD is just like getting a second Bachelor's degree. To me, the whole process is stupid and wasteful. Basically, you're telling kids to waste 4 years and big bucks getting an (often useless) piece of paper based on coursework that often ultimately has nothing to do with the career they eventually want to pursue. Then, they plunk down $100,000 + for another 3 years of school for a second Bachelor's degree. Then, finally, they start doing what they want to do.

If I were to do the process again, I would have gone to a top UK university right out of high school, done 3 years of law, then either tried to practice in the Commonwealth or gotten an LLM from NYU (just 1 year). Either way, it would have made more sense and saved tons of time and money.

JD=stupid degree=stupid.

/ end rant

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vamedic03
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby vamedic03 » Mon May 16, 2011 12:33 am

niederbomb wrote:
USCtrojan86 wrote:I will admit right up front that I've never taken a single class towards earning either a JD or a PhD/MD degree, but based on the numerous people that I have seen and known who have, I'm going to come out and make an official proclamation:

Anyone who thinks that the work that goes into taking the LSATs/getting a JD/passing the bar is in any way, shape or form even remotely comparable to the work that goes into taking the MCATs/earning an MD/interning is either demonstrably insane or unfathomably uninformed and idiotic. It's like comparing the NY Yankees to some minor league team stuck out in Podunk, ND. MD's earned the hell out of that title; JD's don't even deserve the laughs that they should rightfully get if they try and claim it.

PhD's fall somewhere in the middle; many PhD tracks are as difficult as (some are probably even more difficult than) the path to MD; some (cough cough you know who you are) are probably easier than a challenging Masters program. For the most part, however, I'm going to say that the sheer level of commitment and temerity that needs to be displayed to get any PhD (solid grounding in related and relevant coursework at a Bachelors and possibly Masters level, years and years of taking fairly to ridiculously advanced classes, dissertations and all the other ephemera that can be thrown as requirements just to make life hell) once again vastly outweigh anything involved in the JD. How many people graduate with a bachelors and decide to get a PhD in even the easiest and most BS-able subject on a whim? How many people graduate with a bachelors and decide to get a JD on a whim- and end up going to a T3 or T6 school to boot?

It's just not close. The JD is a joke degree compared to either a PhD or an MD, and is therefore is completely undeserving of the title of Doctorate or the "Dr." signifier. Compare the number of dental/medical schools in this country with the number of law schools...do you really want to be calling the kid that almost failed out of Cooley "Dr. So-and-so"?

That's why God invented LLM's and other advanced legal degrees.


I agree in principle. However, I know there are some joke doctorate degrees out there, too, like the one my aunt got in order to get an Air Force promotion.

A "JD" is just another designation for the old LL.b that most Commonwealth countries still use. Basically, if you wanted to study law, you went to university for 3 years and studied law. Then you became a lawyer after 1 or more years of apprenticeship (the PCLL in Hong Kong or the "articling" in Canada are remnants). In the U.S., most academic institutions changed the law degree into a post-graduate qualification after the pay of lawyers outstripped the pay of other Bachelor degrees. However, the nature of the degree has not changed. Evidence? Many countries, including Canada, Singapore, and Hong Kong, have simply changed the name of "LLB" to "JD" in recent years to become more "Americanized" without changing the content of the underlying programs.

Thus, a JD is just like getting a second Bachelor's degree. To me, the whole process is stupid and wasteful. Basically, you're telling kids to waste 4 years and big bucks getting an (often useless) piece of paper based on coursework that often ultimately has nothing to do with the career they eventually want to pursue. Then, they plunk down $100,000 + for another 3 years of school for a second Bachelor's degree. Then, finally, they start doing what they want to do.

If I were to do the process again, I would have gone to a top UK university right out of high school, done 3 years of law, then either tried to practice in the Commonwealth or gotten an LLM from NYU (just 1 year). Either way, it would have made more sense and saved tons of time and money.

JD=stupid degree=stupid.

/ end rant


You know that medical school in the UK is also an undergrad program, right?

03121202698008
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby 03121202698008 » Mon May 16, 2011 12:36 am

In some states, you can call yourself Dr but not put into advertisements. In others, it violates ethics rules to use at all. In still others, it only violates ethics rules if misleading (e.g. you practice medical mal).

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northwood
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby northwood » Mon May 16, 2011 12:38 am

Doctors are people you go see when you are sick or hurt.

Ph.Ds you call professors

People witha Master Degree or lower you call Mr or Mrs, unless they are teaching a college course then you call professor

I totally understand how great it is that people get advanced degrees, and that people with advanced degrees are not the majority of the population. However, If your job title or description doesnt help humans, or cure diseases, or fix bones or whatnot then im not going to call you a doctor- unless you insist. If you do insist- ill go along with it, because i know you worked hard for the title and piece of paper( that may or may not have cost you a ton of money) that you bought an expensive frame to hang on your wall- but I will lable you a condensending prick in my eye and and try to avoid your lamfuishness ( lamfu- Look At Me, Fcuk You) whenb possible.

phd are doctors, but they are docotrs of philosophy- the philosophical study of whatever degree they liked. They like a certain part of the intellectual study of a subject, and want to devote their time and efforts in researching and learning more about that particular subject. IMO only people whose profession is to save lives, and cure/ treat illnesses, and injuries deserve to be called doctor- the rest of us with pieces of paper that cost around the same amount as a home in many places dont deserve that title.

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niederbomb
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby niederbomb » Mon May 16, 2011 12:42 am

vamedic03 wrote:
niederbomb wrote:
USCtrojan86 wrote:I will admit right up front that I've never taken a single class towards earning either a JD or a PhD/MD degree, but based on the numerous people that I have seen and known who have, I'm going to come out and make an official proclamation:

Anyone who thinks that the work that goes into taking the LSATs/getting a JD/passing the bar is in any way, shape or form even remotely comparable to the work that goes into taking the MCATs/earning an MD/interning is either demonstrably insane or unfathomably uninformed and idiotic. It's like comparing the NY Yankees to some minor league team stuck out in Podunk, ND. MD's earned the hell out of that title; JD's don't even deserve the laughs that they should rightfully get if they try and claim it.

PhD's fall somewhere in the middle; many PhD tracks are as difficult as (some are probably even more difficult than) the path to MD; some (cough cough you know who you are) are probably easier than a challenging Masters program. For the most part, however, I'm going to say that the sheer level of commitment and temerity that needs to be displayed to get any PhD (solid grounding in related and relevant coursework at a Bachelors and possibly Masters level, years and years of taking fairly to ridiculously advanced classes, dissertations and all the other ephemera that can be thrown as requirements just to make life hell) once again vastly outweigh anything involved in the JD. How many people graduate with a bachelors and decide to get a PhD in even the easiest and most BS-able subject on a whim? How many people graduate with a bachelors and decide to get a JD on a whim- and end up going to a T3 or T6 school to boot?

It's just not close. The JD is a joke degree compared to either a PhD or an MD, and is therefore is completely undeserving of the title of Doctorate or the "Dr." signifier. Compare the number of dental/medical schools in this country with the number of law schools...do you really want to be calling the kid that almost failed out of Cooley "Dr. So-and-so"?

That's why God invented LLM's and other advanced legal degrees.


I agree in principle. However, I know there are some joke doctorate degrees out there, too, like the one my aunt got in order to get an Air Force promotion.

A "JD" is just another designation for the old LL.b that most Commonwealth countries still use. Basically, if you wanted to study law, you went to university for 3 years and studied law. Then you became a lawyer after 1 or more years of apprenticeship (the PCLL in Hong Kong or the "articling" in Canada are remnants). In the U.S., most academic institutions changed the law degree into a post-graduate qualification after the pay of lawyers outstripped the pay of other Bachelor degrees. However, the nature of the degree has not changed. Evidence? Many countries, including Canada, Singapore, and Hong Kong, have simply changed the name of "LLB" to "JD" in recent years to become more "Americanized" without changing the content of the underlying programs.

Thus, a JD is just like getting a second Bachelor's degree. To me, the whole process is stupid and wasteful. Basically, you're telling kids to waste 4 years and big bucks getting an (often useless) piece of paper based on coursework that often ultimately has nothing to do with the career they eventually want to pursue. Then, they plunk down $100,000 + for another 3 years of school for a second Bachelor's degree. Then, finally, they start doing what they want to do.

If I were to do the process again, I would have gone to a top UK university right out of high school, done 3 years of law, then either tried to practice in the Commonwealth or gotten an LLM from NYU (just 1 year). Either way, it would have made more sense and saved tons of time and money.

JD=stupid degree=stupid.

/ end rant


You know that medical school in the UK is also an undergrad program, right?


Don't get me started on how, wasteful, inefficient, and irrational the U.S. healthcare system is too! :)

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dr123
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby dr123 » Mon May 16, 2011 12:45 am

northwood wrote:Doctors are people you go see when you are sick or hurt.

Ph.Ds you call professors

People witha Master Degree or lower you call Mr or Mrs, unless they are teaching a college course then you call professor



fuck that noise, everyone who's not a dr. of medicine I just address them using their name. Addressing a professor as professor is just silly in my book.

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northwood
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby northwood » Mon May 16, 2011 12:46 am

dr123 wrote:
northwood wrote:Doctors are people you go see when you are sick or hurt.

Ph.Ds you call professors

People witha Master Degree or lower you call Mr or Mrs, unless they are teaching a college course then you call professor



fuck that noise, everyone who's not a dr. of medicine I just address them using their name. Addressing a professor as professor is just silly in my book.



yea- but when you are in class- call them prof. outside class go by first name

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dr123
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby dr123 » Mon May 16, 2011 12:49 am

northwood wrote:
dr123 wrote:
northwood wrote:Doctors are people you go see when you are sick or hurt.

Ph.Ds you call professors

People witha Master Degree or lower you call Mr or Mrs, unless they are teaching a college course then you call professor



fuck that noise, everyone who's not a dr. of medicine I just address them using their name. Addressing a professor as professor is just silly in my book.



yea- but when you are in class- call them prof. outside class go by first name


Nah, every professor I've ever had has specifically stated that they prefer to be addressed by their first name in class. During one of my seminars a student once addressed the teacher as professor _last name_ and he told him to not call him that and to address him by his first name

aliarrow
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby aliarrow » Mon May 16, 2011 12:50 am

Better safe than sorry - always call anyone who teaches a college course "Professor" in any correspondence or interactions. You're much more likely to piss someone off by not addressing them as professor when that's what they prefer than you are by calling someone professor who prefers to go by their name.

Dr123- Your school is just atypical. I've run into many traditional professors who get upset if you address them by name. Professor/Dr. is the standard unless they tell you otherwise.

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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby 03121202698008 » Mon May 16, 2011 12:52 am

dr123 wrote:
northwood wrote:
dr123 wrote:
northwood wrote:Doctors are people you go see when you are sick or hurt.

Ph.Ds you call professors

People witha Master Degree or lower you call Mr or Mrs, unless they are teaching a college course then you call professor



fuck that noise, everyone who's not a dr. of medicine I just address them using their name. Addressing a professor as professor is just silly in my book.



yea- but when you are in class- call them prof. outside class go by first name


Nah, every professor I've ever had has specifically stated that they prefer to be addressed by their first name in class. During one of my seminars a student once addressed the teacher as professor _last name_ and he told him to not call him that and to address him by his first name


Law school professors? Even our most relaxed are formal with title. At most, people refer to them in 3rd person by last name.

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northwood
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby northwood » Mon May 16, 2011 12:56 am

I think its better to err on the respectful side. Call them Prof________ then if they want you to call them something else- they will let you know and you call them that. If you dont call them that- then you are being disrespectful because thats waht they requested you to call them and you didnt. Its not really that big of a deal, some people live for the title ( and plaster everything with their name and title on it) and others go by the noun their parents put down on their birth certificate- or some deviation of that noun.

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ResolutePear
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby ResolutePear » Mon May 16, 2011 4:18 am

I call anybody who is of a professor rank, professor. Since all my professors have PhD's, sans one with a JD, I haven't had an issue with what to call them outside of class. I think they deserve the respect - especially when around other professors.

It's like the title of Dean in my book. There is no appropriate time for not using it as your school career transcends the institutional walls.

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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby firemed » Mon May 16, 2011 12:38 pm

northwood wrote:Doctors are people you go see when you are sick or hurt.

Ph.Ds you call professors

People witha Master Degree or lower you call Mr or Mrs, unless they are teaching a college course then you call professor

I totally understand how great it is that people get advanced degrees, and that people with advanced degrees are not the majority of the population. However, If your job title or description doesnt help humans, or cure diseases, or fix bones or whatnot then im not going to call you a doctor- unless you insist. If you do insist- ill go along with it, because i know you worked hard for the title and piece of paper( that may or may not have cost you a ton of money) that you bought an expensive frame to hang on your wall- but I will lable you a condensending prick in my eye and and try to avoid your lamfuishness ( lamfu- Look At Me, Fcuk You) whenb possible.

phd are doctors, but they are docotrs of philosophy- the philosophical study of whatever degree they liked. They like a certain part of the intellectual study of a subject, and want to devote their time and efforts in researching and learning more about that particular subject. IMO only people whose profession is to save lives, and cure/ treat illnesses, and injuries deserve to be called doctor- the rest of us with pieces of paper that cost around the same amount as a home in many places dont deserve that title.


You should work on your definition... by that one I could be called doctor. And I certainly don't deserve that.


ETA: I always call professors "Doctor" or "Professor" and "Sir/Ma'am" unless they request otherwise, or I have become friends with them. In the same way that I call all my Lieutenants by that title unless asked otherwise. Titles like this are useful in social situations in which one is unaware of the other person's preferences. You might mildly annoy someone by referring to them with their title, but you can seriously offend someone who prefers their title be used and you call them by their first name.

I think some of this might be generational too. For instance I called every adult "Mr./Mrs./Ms" and "Sir/Ma'am" Until I graduated high school. Because my parents taught me to do so. It was just polite. I had the hardest times with adults who wanted me to call them by their first name. Like, are you aware you just equated yourself an equal with a guy who hasn't even got all his pubes in yet? Really?
Last edited by firemed on Mon May 16, 2011 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: JD as Dr.

Postby 09042014 » Mon May 16, 2011 12:42 pm

firemed wrote:
northwood wrote:Doctors are people you go see when you are sick or hurt.

Ph.Ds you call professors

People witha Master Degree or lower you call Mr or Mrs, unless they are teaching a college course then you call professor

I totally understand how great it is that people get advanced degrees, and that people with advanced degrees are not the majority of the population. However, If your job title or description doesnt help humans, or cure diseases, or fix bones or whatnot then im not going to call you a doctor- unless you insist. If you do insist- ill go along with it, because i know you worked hard for the title and piece of paper( that may or may not have cost you a ton of money) that you bought an expensive frame to hang on your wall- but I will lable you a condensending prick in my eye and and try to avoid your lamfuishness ( lamfu- Look At Me, Fcuk You) whenb possible.

phd are doctors, but they are docotrs of philosophy- the philosophical study of whatever degree they liked. They like a certain part of the intellectual study of a subject, and want to devote their time and efforts in researching and learning more about that particular subject. IMO only people whose profession is to save lives, and cure/ treat illnesses, and injuries deserve to be called doctor- the rest of us with pieces of paper that cost around the same amount as a home in many places dont deserve that title.


You should work on your definition... by that one I could be called doctor. And I certainly don't deserve that.


1) EMTs >> dude who touches your balls then charges your HMO 100 dollars for the honor.

2) He said only those, not necessary that all those deserve the title.




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