JD as Dr. Forum

[Ulfrekr]

I personally would like the title SSJ4. Those of you who know what it means want it too.

...

[IStillPlayVideoGames]

Finalnight, two uber-nerd references in one page!

I salute you, Sir. I salute you.

[Cowboy]

Finalnight, two uber-nerd references in one page!

I salute you, Sir. I salute you.

Since we have strayed into the land of D&D

[Patrick Bateman]

I'm not really wanting to be called Dr., but is there any chance you could from this point forward refer to me as "Captain Goose"?

Is that really too much to ask?

Goose was a Lieutenant-Junior Grade, 0-2. You have 20 years and a whole lot of ass kissing before you make Captain in the Navy, 0-6.

[finalnight]

poster time!

[LawDog2]

Although I agree that if you demand that someone call you Dr. so and so, you may look like a dirt bag, here is what I found out.

Evidence that the J.D. is a doctoral level degree

* The American Bar Association, which regulates and accredits the Juris Doctor degree, authorizes holders of Juris Doctor degree to use the title "Doctor "[134][135] which is sometimes used to refer to holders of research doctorates, and some local bar associations in the United States have also issued concurring opinion statements.[120] . However, one Australian academic institution has stated that, despite its name, recipients of its Juris Doctor are not entitled to use the honorific title "Doctor" at that institution.[136];

* Some academic and professional organizations describe the J.D. distinctly as a professional doctorate.[137][138][139][140][141][142][143].

* Like holders of research doctorate degrees, holders of the Juris doctor are issued doctoral robes in ceremonial contexts,[144][145][146].

* The Juris Doctor is the sole graduate degree of some university presidents—a position for which universities commonly require a Ph.D.[147] or comparable[122] (i.e. terminal)[148] degree—is a J.D. (e.g. former Harvard president Derek Bok, and the presidents of Columbia [149] and Johns Hopkins universities).




1. ^ Association of American Universities Data Exchange. "Glossary of Terms for Graduate Education". --LinkRemoved--. Retrieved 2008-05-26.
2. ^ National Science Foundation (2006). "Time to Degree of U.S. Research Doctorate Recipients". InfoBrief, Science Resource Statistics NSF 06-312: 7. http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/ ... f06312.pdf. Under "Data notes" this article mentions that the J.D. is a professional doctorate.
3. ^ San Diego County Bar Association (1969). "Ethics Opinion 1969-5". --LinkRemoved--. Retrieved 2008-05-26. . Under "other references" differences between academic and professional doctorates, and contains a statement that the J.D. is a professional doctorate
4. ^ University of Utah (2006). "University of Utah – The Graduate School – Graduate Handbook". http://www.gradschool.utah.edu/catalog/degree.php. Retrieved 2008-05-28.
5. ^ German Federal Ministry of Education. "U.S. Higher Education / Evaluation of the Almanac Chronicle of Higher Education". --LinkRemoved--. Retrieved 2008-05-26. Report by the German Federal Ministry of Education analysing the Chronicle of Higher Education from the U.S. and stating that the J.D. is a professional doctorate.
6. ^ Encyclopedia Britannica. 3. 2002. p. 962:1a.
7. ^ U.S. Department of Education (2008). "USNEI-Structure of U.S. Education - Graduate/Post Education Levels". http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ou ... udies.html. Retrieved 2008-05-25.
8. ^ College Blue Book (1999). Degrees Offered by College and Subject. New York: MacMillan. pp. 817. (the degrees offered by law schools are listed in this volume as doctorates and not first professional degrees)
9. ^ University of Washington School of Law. "JD Program & Policies". http://www.law.washington.edu/students/academics/. Retrieved 2008-09-02.
10. ^ Russo, Eugene (2004). "The Changing Length of PhDs". Nature 431 (7006): 382–383. doi:10.1038/nj7006-382a. PMID 15372047. --LinkRemoved--. Retrieved 2008-09-02.
11. ^ Herbermann, et al. (1915). Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Encyclopedia Press. Accessed May 26, 2008.
12. ^ García y García, A. (1992). "The Faculties of Law," A History of the University in Europe, London: Cambridge University Press. Accessed May 26, 2008.
13. ^ García y García (1992), 390.
14. ^ Stein (1981), 434, 435.
15. ^ Stein (1981), 434, 436.
16. ^ a b c Stein (1981), 436.
17. ^ Stein, R. (1981). The Path of Legal Education from Edward to Langdell: A History of Insular Reaction, Pace University School of Law Faculty Publications, 1981, 57 Chi.-Kent L. Rev. 429, p. 430.
18. ^ Stein (1981), 431.
19. ^ Stein (1981), 432.
20. ^ Stein (1981), 433.
21. ^ Stein (1981), 434.
22. ^ a b Stein (1981), 435.
23. ^ Moline, Brian J., Early American Legal Education, 42 Washburn Law Journal 775, 793 (2003).
24. ^ Moline (2003), 775.
25. ^ Stein (1981), 429.
26. ^ Stein (1981), 438.
27. ^ a b Stein (1981), 439.
28. ^ Moline (2003), 781.
29. ^ a b c Moline (2003), 782.
30. ^ Moline (2003), 782 and 783.
31. ^ Sonsteng, J. (2007). "[ http://ssrn.com/abstract=1084098 A Legal Education Renaissance: A Practical Approach for the Twenty-First Century]" . William Mitchell Law Review, Vol. 34, No. 1, Revised April 2, 2008. Accessed May 26, 2008. page 13.
32. ^ Stein (1981).
33. ^ Stein (1981), 442.
34. ^ Kirkwood, M. and Owens, W. A Brief History of the Stanford Law School, 1893-1946, Stanford University School of Law. Accessed May 26, 2008.
35. ^ Moline (2003), 794.
36. ^ Moline (2003), 795.
37. ^ Kirkwood, 19.
38. ^ a b Sonsteng (2007), 15.
39. ^ a b Moline (2003), 798.
40. ^ Moline (2003), 800.
41. ^ a b Moline (2003), 801.
42. ^ Stein (1981), 445.
43. ^ For detailed discussions of the development of Langdell's method, see LaPiana, W. (1994). Logic and Experience: The Origin of Modern American Legal Education, New York: Oxford University Press; and Stein, R. (1981). The Path of Legal Education from Edward to Langdell: A History of Insular Reaction, Pace University School of Law Faculty Publications, 1981, 57 Chi.-Kent L. Rev. 429, pages 449-450.
44. ^ Ellis, D. (2001). Legal Education: A Perspective on the Last 130 Years of American Legal Training, 6 Wash. U.J.L. & Pol'y 157, p. 166.
45. ^ Moline (2003), 802.
46. ^ Sonsteng (2007), 19.
47. ^ Reed (1921) and Stein (1981).
48. ^ Reed (1921), 162.
49. ^ a b Reed (1921), 165.
50. ^ Reed (1921), 164.
51. ^ Reed (1921), 167.
52. ^ Reed (1921), 161; and Reed, A. (1928). Present-Day Law Schools in the United States and Canada, Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, Bulletin 21, Boston: Merrymount Press, page 78
53. ^ Reed (1928), 74; and Reed (1921), 169.
54. ^ Stevens, R. (1971). "Two Cheers For 1870: The American Law School," in Law in American History, eds. Donald Fleming and Bernard Bailyn. Boston: Little, Brown & Co., 1971, p.427.
55. ^ Harno, A. (2004) Legal Education in the United States, New Jersey: Lawbook Exchange, page 50.
56. ^ Herbermann, 112-117.
57. ^ Schoenfeld, M. (1963). "J.D. or LL.B as the Basic Law Degree," Cleveland-Marshall Law Review, Vol. 4, pp. 573-579, quoted in Joanna Lombard, LL.B. to J.D. and the Professional Degree in Architecture[dead link], Proceedings of the 85th ACSA Annual Meeting, Architecture: Material and Imagined and Technology Conference, 1997. pp. 585-591.
58. ^ a b Schoenfeld (1963).
59. ^ John H. Langbein, "Scholarly and Professional Objectives in Legal Education: American Trends and English Comparisons," Pressing Problems in the Law, Volume 2: What are Law Schools For?, Oxford University Press, 1996.
60. ^ Reed, (1921), 160
61. ^ Reed (1921), 161
62. ^ The History of the LL.M.
63. ^ Langbein, J. (1996). "Scholarly and Professional Objectives in Legal Education: American Trends and English Comparisons," Pressing Problems in the Law, Volume 2: What are Law Schools For?, Oxford University Press.
64. ^ a b Langbein (1996).
65. ^ Reed (1921), 27.
66. ^ a b Reed (1928), 390.
67. ^ See, Langbein (1996).
68. ^ a b c University of British Columbia Board of Governors approves request for LL.B to be renamed J.D. [1].
69. ^ Verification of the data in this table can be found in the subsequent paragraphs of this section.
70. ^ Hall, J. (1907). American Law School Degrees, Michigan Law Review, Vol. 6, No. 2, pp. 112-117.
71. ^ For example, see J.D. Substantial Writing Requirement, NYU School of Law. Accessed July 23, 2009.
72. ^ Belford, T. (2009). "Why Change to a J.D. Degree?
73. ^ University of Toronto J.D. admissions FAQ [2].
74. ^ University of Melbourne. "About Use - The Melbourne JD". --LinkRemoved--. Retrieved 2008-05-26.
75. ^ Belford, T. (2009). "Why Change to a J.D. Degree? Globe Campus. Accessed August 24, 2009.
76. ^ idem
77. ^ Susannah Moran (17 August 2007). Juris doctor degree grows in popularity. The Australian. Retrieved 2008-09-19.
78. ^ University of Queensland. University of Queensland School of Law LL.B. Program Outline. Accessed March 23, 2007.
79. ^ Oztrekk.com. Description of Australian Law School Programs. Accessed March 23, 2007.
80. ^ Bond University. Juris Doctor. Accessed April 7, 2008. Also stated by RMIT at Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology. Juris Doctor. Accessed April 7, 2008.
81. ^ Monash University. Master of Laws (Juris Doctor). Accessed April 7, 2008.
82. ^ Osgoode Law School "Dean Patrick Monahan on the Growing Number of Canadian Law Schools Switching from the LLB to JD Degree Designation" [3]
83. ^ --LinkRemoved--
84. ^ http://www.law.nyu.edu/academics/course ... /index.htm
85. ^ --LinkRemoved--
86. ^ Canadian law school concentrations, certificates and joint-degree programs [4].
87. ^ Law Law Society of Upper Canada PRP[5].
88. ^ --LinkRemoved--
89. ^ http://www.law.nyu.edu/llmjsd/graduatea ... /index.htm.
90. ^ http://www.nybarexam.org/Foreign/Foreig ... cation.htm
91. ^ --LinkRemoved--
92. ^ NYU/Osgoode Joint LL.B/J.D. [6].
93. ^ Michigan State University School of Law and the University of Ottawa Joint J.D. - LL.B. Degree Program
94. ^ University of Windsor / University of Detroit. J.D./LL.B. ProgramAccessed June 1, 2008.
95. ^ P.R.C. National People's Congress. Regulations of the People's Republic of China on Academic Degrees(2004). Accessed September 12, 2008.
96. ^ Peking University Shenzhen, School of Transnational Law. 学院概况 [7]. Accessed June 6, 2008. Peking University Shenzhen Graduate School. 国际法学院国际法律硕士接受调剂生通知 [8]. Accessed June 6, 2008.
97. ^ Peking University Shenzhen, School of Transnational Law. J.D. Program First-Year Curriculum, 2008-2009. Accessed June 6, 2008.
98. ^ The University of Hong Kong. Juris Doctor (JD) Overview. Accessed December 15, 2008.
99. ^ The Chinese University of Hong Kong School of Law. The Juris Doctor (JD) Programme. Accessed June 29, 2008. City University of Hong Kong. Programmes and Courses: Juris Doctor. Accessed June 29, 2008.
100. ^ City University of Hong Kong. Programmes and Courses. Accessed April 7, 2008.
101. ^ Hong Kong Bar Association. General Admission. Accessed June 1, 2008.
102. ^ The Justice System Reform Council (2001). For a Justice System to Support Japan in the 21st Century.
103. ^ Yokohama National University Law School.Program Introduction and Dean's Message. Accessed April 7, 2008.
104. ^ Foote, D. (2005). Justice System Reform in Japan. Annual meeting of the Research Committee of Sociology of Law, Paris. European Network on Law and Society.
105. ^ Ateneo de Manila Law School. Philippine Leadership Crisis and the J.D. Program. Accessed April 7, 2008.
106. ^ Clarificatory Guidelines Relative to the Offering of the Bachelor of Laws (LL.B) Program and Juris Doctor (JD) Degree Program
107. ^ Curriculum models (2006). Philippine Association of Law Schools.
108. ^ University of Philippines College of Law. News. April 25, 2008.
109. ^ The Weekly Sillimanian Vol. LXXXII No.4: SU Law adopts Juris Doctor Program. By: Princess Dianne Kris S. Decierdo. Published July 15, 2009. Archived copies can be viewed and verified at the Sillimaniana Section of the Silliman University Main Library.
110. ^ PLM Curricula and Degree Programs
111. ^ De La Salle University College of Law Brochure (last accessed July 2009).
112. ^ About O.P. Jindal Global University. O.P. Jindal Global University. Accessed February 16, 2009.
113. ^ i.e. the Laurea Specialisticà in Giurisprudenza
114. ^ Studio Misuraca, Franceschin and Associates. Accessed February 16, 2009.
115. ^ Regio Decreto 4 giugno 1938, n.1269, art. 48 (in Italian). Accessed February 16, 2009.
116. ^ E.g. search for lawyers in Italy on Martindale and view the individual profiles.
117. ^ Ariz. Sup. Ct. R. 31 (a)(2)(B)(2). Accessed June 10, 2008.
118. ^ See, e.g., Texas Penal Code section 38.122 (falsely holding oneself out as a lawyer, third degree felony, two to ten years in prison per Tex. Penal Code sec. 12.34) and section 38.123 (unauthorized practice of law, generally, Class A misdemeanor).
119. ^ a b American Bar Association. Model Code of Professional Responsibility, Disciplinary Rule 2-102(E). Cornell University Law School, LLI. Accessed February 10, 2009. Peter H. Geraghty. Are There Any Doctors Or Associates In the House?. American Bar Association, 2007.
120. ^ a b For example, See North Carolina State Bar. Use of the Title "Doctor" in Academia, 2007 Formal Ethics Opinion 5. North Carolina State Bar, April 20, 2007. Texas State Bar Association. Texas Committee on Professional Ethics, Op. 550. Texas Center for Legal Ethics and Professionalism, May 2004. Florida Bar Association. Opinion 88-2. The Florida Bar, January 15, 1988. New Jersey Advisory Committee on Professional Ethics. Opinion 461. New Jersey Bar Association. South Carolina Bar Association. Ethics Advisory Opinion 76-02. South Carolina Bar Association, 1976. Michigan Bar Association. Opinion 1176. Michigan Bar Association, 1976.
121. ^ See University of Utah Academic Senate, Senate Summary, 11/3/03, vol. 34 n. 3, pg. 2 (3rd full paragraph). Ohio University Presidential Position Description. Ohio University. Accessed February 20, 2009.
122. ^ a b See American Bar Association. Council Statement 2. American Bar Association.
123. ^ Association of American Universities Data Exchange; National Science Foundation (2006); San Diego County Bar Association (1969); University of Utah (2006); German Federal Ministry of Education; Encyclopedia Britannica (2002).
124. ^ E.g. University of Montana School of Business Administration. Profile of Dr. Michael Harrington. University of Montana, 2006. See also Distance Learning Discussion Forums. New wrinkle in the "Is the JD a doctorate?" debate. Distance Learning Discussion Forums, 2003-2005.
125. ^ E.g. Peru: Hernandez & Cia. Accessed February 16, 2009; Brazil: Abdo & Diniz. Accessed February 16, 2009 (see Spanish or Portuguese profile pages); Macau: Macau Lawyers Association. Accessed February 16, 2009; Portugal: Alves Periera Teixeira de Sousa. Accessed February 16, 2009; Argentina: Lareo & Paz. Accessed February 16, 2009; and Italy Studio Misuraca, Franceschin and Associates. Accessed February 16, 2009.
126. ^ E.g. Dr. Ronald Charles Wolf. Accessed February 16, 2009. Florida Bar News. Debate over 'doctor of law' title continues. Florida Bar Association, July 1, 2006.
127. ^ Google Translate; Longman English-Japanese Dictionary (2007). Pearson Education, Essex U.K.; Pocket Kenkyusha Japanese Dictionary. (2003). Oxford, N.Y.
128. ^ Google Translate; The Contemporary Chinese Dictionary. (2002). Foreign Language Teaching and Research Press, Beijing.; Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English (Chinese-English). (2006). Pearson Education, Hong Kong, 2006.
129. ^ See previous two cites, respectively, for Japanese and Chinese usage. Also see The Morrison Foester law firm website, one of the largest law firms in Asia and the United States, for an example of usage.
130. ^ a b The Chronicle of Higher Education. (October 30, 2007). Concord Law School Merges with Kaplan U.. Accessed June 12, 2008. Concord Law School. Concord Law School Accreditation. Accessed June 12, 2008.
131. ^ a b Concord Law School. EJDsm. Accessed June 12, 2008.
132. ^ Qualitex Co. v. Jacobson Products Co., Inc., 514 U.S. 159 (1995)
133. ^ Concord Law School. EJDsm. Accessed June 12, 2008. The website states that students "are not required to adhere to the strict guidelines of the State Bar of California" because of this fact.
134. ^ American Bar Association. Model Code of Professional Responsibility, Disciplinary Rule 2-102(E). Cornell University Law School, LLI. Accessed February 10, 2009.
135. ^ Peter H. Geraghty. Are There Any Doctors Or Associates In the House?. American Bar Association, 2007.
136. ^ RMIT University, Postgraduate Program in Juris Doctor.[9]
137. ^ Association of American Universities Data Exchange. Glossary of Terms for Graduate Education. Accessed May 26, 2008.
138. ^ National Science Foundation (2006). "Time to Degree of U.S. Research Doctorate Recipients," "InfoBrief, Science Resource Statistics" NSF 06-312, 2006, p. 7. (under "Data notes" mentions that the J.D. is a professional doctorate).
139. ^ San Diego County Bar Association (1969). "Ethics Opinion 1969-5". Accessed May 26, 2008. (under "other references" discusses differences between academic and professional doctorate, and statement that the J.D. is a professional doctorate)
140. ^ University of Utah (2006). University of Utah – The Graduate School – Graduate Handbook. Accessed May 28, 2008. (the J.D. degree is listed under doctorate degrees),
141. ^ German Federal Ministry of Education. "U.S. Higher Education / Evaluation of the Almanac Chronicle of Higher Education". Accessed May 26, 2008. (report by the German Federal Ministry of Education analyzing the Chronicle of Higher Education from the U.S. and stating that the J.D. is a professional doctorate).
142. ^ Encyclopedia Britannica. (2002). "Encyclopedia Britannica", 3:962:1a. (the J.D. is listed among other doctorate degrees).
143. ^ --LinkRemoved--
144. ^ Haycraft, Frank W (1927). The Degrees and Hoods of the World's Universities & Colleges. London: Cheshunt Press.
145. ^ Lackmiller, D (1969). Scholars on Parade: Colleges, Universities, Costumes and Degrees. New York: MacMillan.
146. ^ American Council on Education (2008). "American Costume Code & Ceremony Guide". --LinkRemoved--. Retrieved 2008-05-25.
147. ^ See University of Utah Academic Senate, Senate Summary, 11/3/03, vol. 34 n. 3, pg. 2 (3rd full paragraph). Ohio University Presidential Position Description. Ohio University. Accessed February 20, 2009. Presidential Search. Stony Brook University. Accessed February 22, 2009. Presidential Candidate Search. University of South Carolina. Accessed February 22, 2009.
148. ^ For another example of the J.D. being considered a terminal degree for purposes of an academic appointment, See http://web.archive.org/web/200801110706 ... lty-23.htm
149. ^ http://www.law.columbia.edu/fac/Lee_Bollinger
150. ^ PhD and Equivalent Doctoral Degrees: The ERC Policy
151. ^ United States Department of Labor
152. ^ Yale Law School, Admission Requirements for J.S.D
153. ^ Comparing American and British Legal Education Systems: Lessons for Commonwealth African Law Schools, Kenneth K. Mwenda, Cambria Press. [10]
154. ^ [11]
155. ^ [12]
156. ^ http://cronus.uwindsor.ca/clubs/sls/sls ... 202009.pdf Student Law Society
157. ^ RMIT University, Postgraduate Program in Juris Doctor.[13],
158. ^ Austin Peay State University, Minutes of Deans Council Meeting, July 28, 2004. [14],
159. ^ United States Department of Labor
160. ^ PhD and Equivalent Doctoral Degrees: The ERC Policy

[Dman]

There is actually an article talking about the ethical side of using Dr. as a lawyer in the latest ABA Business section Journal. They cite some Texas cases saying that it is has been allowed under their BAR.

[LawDog2]

Structure of the U.S. Education System:
First-Professional Degrees


First-professional degrees represent a category of qualifications in professional subject areas that require students to have previously completed specified undergraduate coursework and/or degrees before enrolling. They are considered graduate-level programs in the U.S. system because the follow prior undergraduate studies, but they are in fact first degrees in these professional subjects. Holders of first-professional degrees are considered to have an entry-level qualification and may undertake graduate study in these professional fields following the award of the first-professional degree. Several of these degrees use the term “doctor” in the title, but these degrees do not contain an independent research component or require a dissertation (thesis) and should not be confused with PhD degrees or other research doctorates.

A first-professional degree is an award that requires completion of a program that meets all of the following criteria: (1) completion of the academic requirements to begin practice in the profession; (2) at least 2 years of college work prior to entering the program; and (3) a total of at least 6 academic years of college work to complete the degree program, including prior required college work plus the length of the professional program itself.

All first-professional degree programs are closely regulated by recognized professional and specialized accrediting agencies. See Accreditation and Quality Assurance.


FIRST-PROFESSIONAL DEGREE TITLES

First-professional degrees may be awarded in the following 10 fields:

Doctor of Chiropractic (D.C. or D.C.M.)
Doctor of Dental Science (D.D.S.) or Doctor of Dental Medicine (D.M.D.)
Doctor of Jurisprudence or Juris Doctor (J.D.)
Doctor of Medicine (M.D.)
Doctor of Optometry (O.D.)
Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine/Osteopathy (D.O.)
Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm.D.)
Doctor of Podiatric Medicine/Podiatry (D.P.M., D.P., or Pod.D.)
Master of Divinity (M.Div.), Master of Hebrew Letters (M.H.L.) or Rabbinical Ordination (Rav)
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine (D.V.M.).

www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ous/international/usnei/us/professional.doc - 2008-03-31

Now, its up to your individual jurisdiction allowing or prohibiting you from using the Dr. title, but you earned it. Many in the Ph.D. arena love to put the JD down, but it may be due to Self interested grounds. With all due respect to Ph.D's, Philosophy is harder to grasp as a Dr degree then a JD. If you do want to silence those who complaint get a SJD. As for me, I stopped with an LL.M. in Taxation and don't wish to get a SJD.

[Dr. JD]

Obviously, a JD is a doctorate. I am saddened by the sheer stupidity in many of the arguments against the law degree. For instance, doctorate is somehow different than doctor. No it isn't. That distinction is not real. It is a made-up argument. The JD is just the same as an MD...that is, a professional doctorate. If an MD desires to do research they often secure a PhD. A lawyer will get an SJD or JSD (same thing). The ABA issued a Council Statement that a JD is the "equivalent" degree to a PhD. The ABA added that a PhD requires approximately 60 semester credits beyond a bachelors degree plus a 20 credit dissertation where a JD degree requires approximately 90 semester credits beyond a bachelors degree. Some PhDs take 4-6 years to complete, while others have completed a PhD in less than 2 years after a 1 year masters degree.

Lastly, the ABA issued a decision in circa 1970 that a JD can be referred to as "doctor." Note that more and more JDs are holding themselves out as "doctor" in academia, and some in practice. Within 10 years most JDs in academia will be called "doctor."

Thank you, Dr. JD

[AreJay711]

Obviously, a JD is a doctorate. I am saddened by the sheer stupidity in many of the arguments against the law degree. For instance, doctorate is somehow different than doctor. No it isn't. That distinction is not real. It is a made-up argument. The JD is just the same as an MD...that is, a professional doctorate. If an MD desires to do research they often secure a PhD. A lawyer will get an SJD or JSD (same thing). The ABA issued a Council Statement that a JD is the "equivalent" degree to a PhD. The ABA added that a PhD requires approximately 60 semester credits beyond a bachelors degree plus a 20 credit dissertation where a JD degree requires approximately 90 semester credits beyond a bachelors degree. Some PhDs take 4-6 years to complete, while others have completed a PhD in less than 2 years after a 1 year masters degree.

Lastly, the ABA issued a decision in circa 1970 that a JD can be referred to as "doctor." Note that more and more JDs are holding themselves out as "doctor" in academia, and some in practice. Within 10 years most JDs in academia will be called "doctor."

Thank you, Dr. JD

Well this investment is starting to look good for the first time in months.

[Sentry]

There is only one person who has earned the title of doctor. Julius Erving.

[Bildungsroman]

A love tester machine once rated me as a "pleasure doctor" and I have been using the title ever since. The rest of you can rely on the JD as your credential.

[Dr. JD]

I find it almost funny (a bit pathetic) that my degree reads "Juris Doctor" which translates into English as Doctor of Law and I have to read a PhD tell me how hard or not it was to earn my degree. One even suggested that a JD is easier to get than a PhD, so that is why lawyers in America (not true in many other countries) do not go by doctors. This rigor argument is also bunk...it takes approximately 90 semester credits to earn a JD and only 50-60 semester credits (post bachelors) plus a 20-30 credit dissertation. So either do an extra 10 doctoral level classes or a dissertation. Neither sound easy.

THE REASON LAWYERS DON'T OFTEN GO BY DOCTOR... HISTORICALLY (A TRADITION CARRIED FROM ENGLAND AND NOT FROM MAINLAND EUROPE) LAWYERS EARNED A BACHELORS DEGREE (AS DO PHYSICIANS IN ENGLAND TO THIS VERY DAY) AND WHEN THE REMAINING LAW SCHOOLS IN THIS COUNTRY DROPPED THE LL.B. (CIRCA 1960s) MOST OF THE LAWYERS AT THAT TIME DID NOT HAVE A DOCTORATE AND THEY DID NOT WANT TO FEEL LESS IMPORTANT THROUGH "SELF-LAUDATION" OF THE NEW LAW GRADUATES WITH PROFESSIONAL DOCTORATES CALLING THEMSELVES DOCTOR, SO THEY FAUGHT TO PREVENT THE NEW LAWYERS FROM CALLING THEMSELVES DOCTORS. THAT'S IT! END OF STORY.

THE SOLUTION IS FOR ALL LAWYERS NOW TO BEGIN CALLING THEMSELVES BY THE DEGREE THAT THEY EARNED...NOT A BACHELORS, NOT A MASTERS BUT A DOCTORATE. THANK YOU, DR. JD

[prezidentv8]

you can call yourself whatever the hell you like, but you may be laughed at for it.

TIAlwaysTCR

[prezidentv8]

Obviously, a JD is a doctorate. I am saddened by the sheer stupidity in many of the arguments against the law degree. For instance, doctorate is somehow different than doctor. No it isn't. That distinction is not real. It is a made-up argument. The JD is just the same as an MD...that is, a professional doctorate. If an MD desires to do research they often secure a PhD. A lawyer will get an SJD or JSD (same thing). The ABA issued a Council Statement that a JD is the "equivalent" degree to a PhD. The ABA added that a PhD requires approximately 60 semester credits beyond a bachelors degree plus a 20 credit dissertation where a JD degree requires approximately 90 semester credits beyond a bachelors degree. Some PhDs take 4-6 years to complete, while others have completed a PhD in less than 2 years after a 1 year masters degree.

Lastly, the ABA issued a decision in circa 1970 that a JD can be referred to as "doctor." Note that more and more JDs are holding themselves out as "doctor" in academia, and some in practice. Within 10 years most JDs in academia will be called "doctor."

Thank you, Dr. JD

Well this investment is starting to look good for the first time in months.

I LOL'd

[mala2]

i personally love the way the germans do it, where you first get your regular title (mr/mrs/ms) plus every single title you have after that.

Someone can be "Herr Doktor Professor Schmidt"

hahaha the Germans love stringing everything together into long words

[firemed]

Mister is fine for me. People who insist on being called "Doctor" (ahem, ahem, I am looking at certain, but not all, MDs... and apparently some JDs) are douchetrucks. While I am always respectful, and call MDs and PhDs "Doctor So-and-so" unless asked otherwise... someone INSISTING that they be referred to by their title always rubbed me the wrong way. It strikes me as somewhat un-american. Hell, we call the leader of our country "Mister (President)"... so I really don't see why I should get all high and mighty. If I wanted to live somewhere where titles are a big deal I would've applied to law schools to England... then I could spend time calling people "Doctor," "Your Honor," "The most Honorable," "Your Grace," "My Lord," "Sir," "My Lady," "Your Highness," "Your Majesty," etc. Interestingly, even if I got my LLB there... I would still be "Mister." Think about it.

[aliarrow]

Holy necro...

I can't believe Dr. JD was created for the sole purpose of necroing this thread?

[lisjjen]

I was unaware lawyers wanted to announce to the world that they were, in fact, lawyers. I got the impression I was going into the most hated profession on the planet.

[firemed]

Holy necro...

I can't believe Dr. JD was created for the sole purpose of necroing this thread?

Oh man... I have been had. That's what I get for not checking the dates on page 1.

--ImageRemoved--

[lmfao]

I find it almost funny (a bit pathetic) that my degree reads "Juris Doctor" which translates into English as Doctor of Law and I have to read a PhD tell me how hard or not it was to earn my degree. One even suggested that a JD is easier to get than a PhD, so that is why lawyers in America (not true in many other countries) do not go by doctors. This rigor argument is also bunk...it takes approximately 90 semester credits to earn a JD and only 50-60 semester credits (post bachelors) plus a 20-30 credit dissertation. So either do an extra 10 doctoral level classes or a dissertation. Neither sound easy.

THE REASON LAWYERS DON'T OFTEN GO BY DOCTOR... HISTORICALLY (A TRADITION CARRIED FROM ENGLAND AND NOT FROM MAINLAND EUROPE) LAWYERS EARNED A BACHELORS DEGREE (AS DO PHYSICIANS IN ENGLAND TO THIS VERY DAY) AND WHEN THE REMAINING LAW SCHOOLS IN THIS COUNTRY DROPPED THE LL.B. (CIRCA 1960s) MOST OF THE LAWYERS AT THAT TIME DID NOT HAVE A DOCTORATE AND THEY DID NOT WANT TO FEEL LESS IMPORTANT THROUGH "SELF-LAUDATION" OF THE NEW LAW GRADUATES WITH PROFESSIONAL DOCTORATES CALLING THEMSELVES DOCTOR, SO THEY FAUGHT TO PREVENT THE NEW LAWYERS FROM CALLING THEMSELVES DOCTORS. THAT'S IT! END OF STORY.

THE SOLUTION IS FOR ALL LAWYERS NOW TO BEGIN CALLING THEMSELVES BY THE DEGREE THAT THEY EARNED...NOT A BACHELORS, NOT A MASTERS BUT A DOCTORATE. THANK YOU, DR. JD

I truly hope that you are trolling, otherwise, you are one sad delusional individual. Let me break it down for you:

MD: 4 years in medical school + 4 years of residency.
PhD: 2 years in graduate school (classes) + 3-5 years of research resulting in the "ORIGINAL" contribution to knowledge + 2-4 years of post-doc (the latter is required for most 'good' research positions in the academia). NO respected university will give you a MS in 1 year and a PhD in 2 years. (unless you are a genius and/or are studying in a 'fourth rate university' which happens to have an accelerated/worthless graduate program)
JD: 3 years of classes with NO original contribution to knowledge.....

JD (aka Masters degree) requires MUCH LESS WORK than MD/PhD. Anyone saying otherwise is either trolling or plain stupid.

It might have been "hard" for you to get a JD, but, at the same time, it might have been hard for a mentally challenged person to finish high school... should we call him/her "Doctor" as well ??????

[aliarrow]

Are you seriously that vested in the JD/DR debate that you keep creating alts to revive this stupid thread?

[Veyron]

In my experience, its the people from TTTs that insist on the letters after their name. The only guy who I'm making call me doctor after I graduate is my Med-Student brother, and then, only because it will piss him the fuck off.

[aliarrow]

In my experience, its the people from TTTs that insist on the letters after their name. The only guy who I'm making call me doctor after I graduate is my Med-Student brother, and then, only because it will piss him the fuck off.

I always laugh some when I have to get info from the Pasco Clerk.
Attention Whoring to the max.

[lmfao]

Are you seriously that vested in the JD/DR debate that you keep creating alts to revive this stupid thread?

Yes and No - I am interested in the JD/Dr debate and this is my first account.