Undergrad advice needed

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
User avatar
anthonyy
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:15 pm

Undergrad advice needed

Postby anthonyy » Thu May 07, 2015 4:48 pm

Hi people of TLS,

So I'll be a freshman in college next year (go through my old posts if you want that whole story), but I need advice on where to go undergrad, with law school in mind.

tl;dr I got into a computer science program at school with an AACSB accredited business school, and I also got accepted to the honors college but I'd have to assume like 40k in debt over four years, therefore making law school pretty unlikely unless I were to destroy the LSATS and get some scholarships.

I'm considering staying home and going to a local school (not very good, small uni) on a full ride (I'd have to live at home) and then going on to law school.

The thing is about the computer science path is, I'm really not all that interested in it. My whole life I've wanted to go to law school, and I (oddly) get a ton of enjoyment out of studying lsat stuff and taking practice tests, which I've been doing really well on. However, I'd be more academically successful going away to school, and I cannot bear to live at home for another four years.

Any advice is greatly appreciated,

Thanks.

User avatar
usn26
Posts: 803
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:24 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby usn26 » Thu May 07, 2015 4:54 pm

Majoring in something you're not really interested in isn't really the best path to good grades, and grades are what matters for law school admissions (not major, or the level of your undergrad's fanciness).

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu May 07, 2015 5:08 pm

Which schools are you considering ? This is important because you may change your mind about law school over the next four years.

User avatar
anthonyy
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:15 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby anthonyy » Thu May 07, 2015 5:24 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Which schools are you considering ? This is important because you may change your mind about law school over the next four years.


University of Tampa honors
Stockton University

probably not up to tls standards but yeah I only really applied to places I knew I'd get into/money from because I was paying for all the applications out of my own money (which adds up working minimum wage high school jobs lol)

usn26 wrote:Majoring in something you're not really interested in isn't really the best path to good grades, and grades are what matters for law school admissions (not major, or the level of your undergrad's fanciness).


Should have worded this better; Computer science is what the closest thing I am to interested in outside of music and law (music being an unwise choice and law obviously not being an undergrad choice)

Thanks for the replies!

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu May 07, 2015 5:37 pm

Music majors tend to do well on the LSAT.

Honors College designation always looks good on a resume, but I'm not familiar with either school other than name recognition for UTampa.

In the past, I did quite a bit of research on honors programs & honors colleges, although not in the past two years. Many honors colleges give automatic scholarships based on your standardized test scores. Two that come to mind are Ohio State & the University of Alabama--there are a few dozen more. The University of Georgia is another, but its honors college & Foundation Fellows programs tend to target Ivy League caliber students.

If you research "honors colleges scholarships" or "honors programs", you should be able to find very specific information about automatic scholarship awards based on your numbers.

Traynor Brah
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:23 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby Traynor Brah » Thu May 07, 2015 5:50 pm

Stop thinking about law school right now. Get good grades and then maybe think about it in four years. Major in computer science if that at all interests you. Do not major in music, unless it is a double major with something like computer science (or something that can get you a job).

User avatar
OhBoyOhBortles
Posts: 2257
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:01 am

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Thu May 07, 2015 5:52 pm

Traynor Brah wrote:Stop thinking about law school right now. Get good grades and then maybe think about it in four years. Major in computer science if that at all interests you. Do not major in music, unless it is a double major with something like computer science (or something that can get you a job).

User avatar
anthonyy
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:15 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby anthonyy » Thu May 07, 2015 7:01 pm

Traynor Brah wrote:Stop thinking about law school right now. Get good grades and then maybe think about it in four years. Major in computer science if that at all interests you. Do not major in music, unless it is a double major with something like computer science (or something that can get you a job).



I know I know, the thing is though, that whichever school I decide on now, directly affects whether or not I'll be able to go to law school down the road should I choose to. That is where my problem resides.

Thanks for all the replies guys :P

Traynor Brah
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:23 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby Traynor Brah » Thu May 07, 2015 7:16 pm

anthonyy wrote:I know I know, the thing is though, that whichever school I decide on now, directly affects whether or not I'll be able to go to law school down the road should I choose to. That is where my problem resides.

No, it doesn't. At all. Where are you getting this information from? Unless you are going to a seriously elite school (e.g. Princeton, Amherst, etc.), your undergrad has no meaningful impact on law school admissions -- and those seriously elite schools don't even have a truly meaningful impact.

Law school admissions, as it stands now, is a pure numbers game (LSAT and GPA). The only other factor that has much demonstrable impact--and we're talking, still, a tiny relative impact--is impressive work experience post graduation.

ETA I realized you were talking about money. Regardless of your circumstances, I strongly strongly suggest leaving your hometown for college, and I strongly strongly suggest taking at least a year to two to work following undergrad before making any decisions about law school. 40K in debt from UG is not bad; getting a good comp sci job would let you kill that pretty easily.

User avatar
anthonyy
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:15 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby anthonyy » Fri May 08, 2015 9:10 am

Traynor Brah wrote:
anthonyy wrote:I know I know, the thing is though, that whichever school I decide on now, directly affects whether or not I'll be able to go to law school down the road should I choose to. That is where my problem resides.

No, it doesn't. At all. Where are you getting this information from? Unless you are going to a seriously elite school (e.g. Princeton, Amherst, etc.), your undergrad has no meaningful impact on law school admissions -- and those seriously elite schools don't even have a truly meaningful impact.

Law school admissions, as it stands now, is a pure numbers game (LSAT and GPA). The only other factor that has much demonstrable impact--and we're talking, still, a tiny relative impact--is impressive work experience post graduation.

ETA I realized you were talking about money. Regardless of your circumstances, I strongly strongly suggest leaving your hometown for college, and I strongly strongly suggest taking at least a year to two to work following undergrad before making any decisions about law school. 40K in debt from UG is not bad; getting a good comp sci job would let you kill that pretty easily.


This was exactly what I was looking for, thanks for the response!
I had never really thought of (your suggestion) and I think I'm going to do that. I know that going away would really benefit me academically and Id probably just lose all sight of things staying home. Plus like you said a good comp sci job could take care of my undergrad debt, give me time to really prep for the lsats, and give me good work experience.

tskela
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:41 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby tskela » Fri May 08, 2015 1:07 pm

If this kid still wants to go to law school after UG, his GPA after majoring in comp sci probably isn't going to look so hot

User avatar
NoBladesNoBows
Posts: 1118
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:39 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Fri May 08, 2015 1:57 pm

Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Wed May 27, 2015 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tskela
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:41 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby tskela » Fri May 08, 2015 2:20 pm

NoBladesNoBows wrote:
tskela wrote:If this kid still wants to go to law school after UG, his GPA after majoring in comp sci probably isn't going to look so hot


Yea I was thinking this too. School doesn't matter much, but major does. Not in terms of one major being more valuable than another though, it matters because certain majors are gonna take a lot more work/effort to slay than others. Comp Sci will probably give you some of the best job opportunities straight out of college (which I think you should weight as or more importantly than impact on law school admission) but is definitely going to require a lot more time to maintain an attractive GPA. This is a decision you'll really have to make yourself though. I'd see if you can get any data from your school about grade distribution by major. Not sure if that's available, but if so it would be very useful. Good luck!


TBH, I majored in english and philosophy because I wanted to maximize my GPA for law school admissions and thought these were the subjects I'd personally do best in. I did pretty decent, >3.5, but if I could do it all over again I'd major in comp sci, forget all about applying to law school and enjoy the job prospects that wouldn't significantly be hindered by something closer to 3.00

Traynor Brah
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:23 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby Traynor Brah » Fri May 08, 2015 4:14 pm

tskela wrote:If this kid still wants to go to law school after UG, his GPA after majoring in comp sci probably isn't going to look so hot

First, we are not talking about MIT here (no offense, of course, OP; I started at a community college). Second, this is a fucking terrible way to look at undergrad, and you should feel bad for giving this kind of advice. OP should explore his interests and take a wide variety of classes to find out what he really likes and has a genuine interest in. Computer sciences is a great degree wherein it is actually rigorous, generally, and also allows you to get a job, so I would never really advise against it. But, more generally, even if a freshman is gunning for law school (which I think is a categorically bad idea), you should simply not approach undergrad from the perspective of trying to game your GPA.

tskela
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:41 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby tskela » Fri May 08, 2015 7:00 pm

Traynor Brah wrote:
tskela wrote:If this kid still wants to go to law school after UG, his GPA after majoring in comp sci probably isn't going to look so hot

First, we are not talking about MIT here (no offense, of course, OP; I started at a community college). Second, this is a fucking terrible way to look at undergrad, and you should feel bad for giving this kind of advice. OP should explore his interests and take a wide variety of classes to find out what he really likes and has a genuine interest in. Computer sciences is a great degree wherein it is actually rigorous, generally, and also allows you to get a job, so I would never really advise against it. But, more generally, even if a freshman is gunning for law school (which I think is a categorically bad idea), you should simply not approach undergrad from the perspective of trying to game your GPA.


Suggesting OP might want to choose a major he thinks he can do well in is not bad advice. Notice in my post above I said that I went this direction and regret it now. But that's just me. OP should be informed that majoring in comp sci might not service him that well later on if he does decide to apply to law school, especially because he's asking specifically about law school here, not general life advice.

Also, computer science being a great degree that is rigorous and allows you to get a job and computer science perhaps not being the ideal major if you want to get into a good law school are not mutually exclusive things and nowhere did I say the former wasn't true. I challenge you to find anything technically incorrect about what you quoted from me.

Finally, humanities can also be "great degrees" that are "actually rigorous" and "allow you to get a job". A 3.9 in any humanities major paired with a good LSAT puts you in an indisputably solid position for a biglaw job post-law school, a job that is indisputably lucrative. Majoring in something technical and doing poorly shuts you out of this possible career path just as majoring in humanities and doing significantly better shuts you out of a career in something technical. Either way, OP is going to have to make a decision soon which could potentially close the door on a future career path, and it's up to him to decide that law is not a door he wants to close by risking a sub-3.0 GPA. This could be a perfectly valid decision for some individuals, though I don't think it was the right one for me, personally.

acrossthelake
Posts: 4431
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 5:27 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby acrossthelake » Fri May 08, 2015 7:14 pm

Neither school impacts your law school odds, go where you think you'll be happier, and take the education part of college seriously. If you're not getting a class, go to office hours early--earlier in the semester,TAs and even profs will have really empty office hours, and all the time in the world to explain things to you you don't understand--and they'll remember you.

Broncos15
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:25 am

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby Broncos15 » Fri May 08, 2015 10:33 pm

False it is not too early to think about GPA as it is the second most important factor in admissions ( and the one thing you can't improve on after graduation)

Broncos15
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:25 am

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby Broncos15 » Fri May 08, 2015 10:56 pm

Couldn't OP take the music major to maximize his GPA ( likely higher than Comp Sci will be).....see if he still wants law school after graduation ...and if not take some Comp Sci courses at a community college for a fraction of a cost of a 4 yr school and then get a job in that field.


I know this scenario would be a bit of a longer road ,....... but this would keep the law school door open a bit longer while at the same time does not exclude possibility of Comp Sci after graduation

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 9651
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby jbagelboy » Fri May 08, 2015 11:23 pm

the kid taking LSATs in high school is already fucked in this life. (no offense - you seem nice)

go be young and happy. you can still get clocked without a bad hangover and show up high to class and chase that sweet young shit. what are you doing on a law school forum

sundontshine
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:49 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby sundontshine » Fri May 08, 2015 11:52 pm

CanadianWolf wrote: The University of Georgia is another, but its honors college & Foundation Fellows programs tend to target Ivy League caliber students.


LMAO nice one, man.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat May 09, 2015 9:31 am

Look up the Foundation Fellows scholars at the University of Georgia, especially the average SAT scores.

The average SAT scores for a University of Georgia Foundation Fellow is 1540 out of 1600 possible points. (Average GPA is a 4.19 based on a 4.0 scale = additional credit for AP courses.)

Next, look up the average SAT score for each of the 8 Ivy League (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Dartmouth, Cornell, Penn & Brown) schools.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat May 09, 2015 9:56 am

Average Critical Reading & Math scores:

Georgia Foundation Fellows 1540

Harvard 1500

Yale 1500

Princeton 1500

Columbia 1480

Univ. of Georgia Honors College 1462

Dartmouth 1455

UPenn 1435

Brown 1425

Cornell (below 1400)

SDviaVA
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:24 am

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby SDviaVA » Sat May 09, 2015 10:07 am

Rather than asking what choice is best for getting into law school, I would ask which choice is best for becoming a lawyer.

Legal employers care about your undergrad's "prestige factor." Not as much as your law school's, but it is considered. That being said, I haven't heard much about either of the schools you mentioned, but I live in he mid-atlantic, so they may be more well know in Florida.

CS adds a unique spin on your situation bc if you want to go into patent law CS majors are in HIGH demand. You would have a great chance of getting a patent prosecution gig if you had a degree in CS from anywhere. And patent prosecution pays great.

Lastly I would add that if you are not interested in CS then you will not do well it the major and you will not have the grades to get into a decent law school. If you are sure you went to go to law school, you might want to major in something you are interested in, where you can get the best grades. But the risk here is if you decide not to go to law school later, it would be nice to have a major that makes you employable.

User avatar
anthonyy
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:15 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby anthonyy » Sat May 09, 2015 10:10 am

jbagelboy wrote:the kid taking LSATs in high school is already fucked in this life. (no offense - you seem nice)

go be young and happy. you can still get clocked without a bad hangover and show up high to class and chase that sweet young shit. what are you doing on a law school forum


Yeah I probably come off as pretty lame haha but I'm doing quite alright in the area of enjoying the fruits of youth :roll: :wink:

what am I doing on a law school forum? Good question. Its rainy, I've got an eforest 2015 playlist on and I'm over thinking things like a senior in high school does on crappy days.

I appreciate all the responses guys, all your opinions/advice are helping a ton.

User avatar
NoBladesNoBows
Posts: 1118
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:39 pm

Re: Undergrad advice needed

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Sat May 09, 2015 12:35 pm

Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Wed May 27, 2015 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.




Return to “Law School FAQ”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jeffcooon, Late Game, Theresa87 and 5 guests