Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

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ashca2014
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Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby ashca2014 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:59 am

Does the anti-Law School sentiment that seems to have become pretty common these days ever bother anyone?
Even on these forums, I come across posts where members are discouraging others from taking the law school route.
Does the idea of astronomical debt, no social life, or drowning in a sea of legal course work for three years ever frighten you, or cause you to rethink your choice?

I'm just curious about how other perspective/current law students deal with the constant negativity and discouragement.

(For me personally, despite my inherent pessimism, I'm fairly confident this is the best path for me).

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ymmv
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby ymmv » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:12 am

Don't do it.

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BankruptMe
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby BankruptMe » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:26 am

pleaseeee dont do it

*Drake Voice*

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ashca2014
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby ashca2014 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:39 am

I was totally not anticipating such responses, guys. I applaud your originality.

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compass
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby compass » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:53 am

Honestly, the continual drop in LSAT-takers and applicants sometimes makes me feel like I'm jumping onto a sinking ship. Every time someone posts about being excited for the lower number of people competing for spots, a little voice in my head wonders whether we should be excited or looking at those numbers and reevaluating our own decisions.

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Dog
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby Dog » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:03 am

Why are you fairly confident law is the right path for you?

Gators23
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby Gators23 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:14 am

ashca2014 wrote:Does the anti-Law School sentiment that seems to have become pretty common these days ever bother anyone?
Even on these forums, I come across posts where members are discouraging others from taking the law school route.
Does the idea of astronomical debt, no social life, or drowning in a sea of legal course work for three years ever frighten you, or cause you to rethink your choice?

I'm just curious about how other perspective/current law students deal with the constant negativity and discouragement.

(For me personally, despite my inherent pessimism, I'm fairly confident this is the best path for me).


The sentiment itself shouldn't bother you. Generally speaking, who cares what other people think? The fact that this particular sentiment is well-founded should bother you.

Depending on where the "path" you speak of leads, there may only be a handful of schools that don't amount to a wildly irresponsible crap shoot.

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:15 am

Like many will tell you about the taking out of ridiculous sums of money in loans, it is all about your other options. If this is something you just decided you would do, and you haven't considered other options, you may want to take a look at what other individuals with your degree are doing and evaluate what level of success you could have in one of those careers. Or something completely different. Come up with some ideas and hash out the risks and potential rewards for each.

Regardless of what you choose, you will have to take risks along the way and you may experience success and you may not. Certainly one of the best ways to find out if you would actually like to take this risk is to speak to actual attorneys and find out what they like/dislike about their careers, what has afforded them the successes they've experienced, what their recommendations are for someone considering entering the field (have them give you more than a "don't do it."), etc. Even better would be to work at a firm, but I understand you may not want to do so if you are already applying this cycle.

I guess, in sum, you really need to gather as much information as you can, evaluate that information with the appropriate amount of time/energy given the gravity of such a decision, and then make a choice based on your assessment of the level of risk and the potential for reward. Much the same way as you will make most of your major life decisions. There is no wrong answer...but you will have to live out the consequences.

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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:21 am

Do it, but only at the right price
After maxing out LSAT retakes
And working for at least 1-2 years

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romothesavior
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:24 am

OP did you ever stop and think that maybe, just maybe, those current law students and recent graduates might know a thing or two that you don't? Maybe we have a dash of perspective on this that you lack?

Also, I think very few people on these forums discourage law school in all cases. Whether or not you should go depends on a variety of factors, including but certainly not limited to: (1) quality of school, (2) debt load, and (3) your goals with your law degree.

How would you answer the above questions? Where are you looking to go, what kind of debt are you looking at, and what do you want to be doing (I.e., job type and geographic location)?

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ymmv
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby ymmv » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:39 am

ashca2014 wrote:I was totally not anticipating such responses, guys. I applaud your originality.



Honestly isn't always original.

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Dog
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby Dog » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:33 am

ashca2014 wrote:Does the anti-Law School sentiment that seems to have become pretty common these days ever bother anyone?
Even on these forums, I come across posts where members are discouraging others from taking the law school route.
Does the idea of astronomical debt, no social life, or drowning in a sea of legal course work for three years ever frighten you, or cause you to rethink your choice?

I'm just curious about how other perspective/current law students deal with the constant negativity and discouragement.

(For me personally, despite my inherent pessimism, I'm fairly confident this is the best path for me).


Out of the three negatives you mentioned, only the astronomical debt is a potentially life ruining concern. However, you missed the other giant issue: barely over half of law graduates get JD required jobs and a disproportionately large amount of those go to students from top schools. An even smaller percentage of grads get what are considered "good" jobs.

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utahraptor
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby utahraptor » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:37 am

You should totally go OP! Follow your dreams!

~internet sadist

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:47 am

ashca2014 wrote:Does the anti-Law School sentiment that seems to have become pretty common these days ever bother anyone?
Even Especially on these forums, I come across posts where members are discouraging others from taking the law school route.

This is a group of largely risk-averse people who are highly educated about the risks and benefits of applying/going to law school, so you're more likely to get discouragement here than most other places.

bl1nds1ght
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby bl1nds1ght » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:59 am

OP, FWIW, I'm taking time to work into my mid/late 20s before making any type of graduate degree commitment. I feel fortunate that I really like my current job, boss, and company, so I feel no rush to head off to something that could potentially backfire or land me in a job I hate.

Since researching law school and working, I've realized that there are benefits and drawbacks to various degree choices. An MBA seems appealing, as do a few other options outside of law. Plus, I've still got a few outstanding undergrad loans to pay off, so I can get those knocked out, too.

I feel like I'm making the right decision when both my company's GC and my legal mentor (V100 partner) tell me they wish their own children would do what I'm doing. *shrug

YMMV, however, and I'm not saying that this path is right for everyone. For some people, going sooner rather than later may make more sense, especially for someone who has a good handle on what they want geographically/career-wise.

/edit: This was a fucking roundabout way of saying that the negativity towards attending law school pushed me to carefully evaluate my choices and to postpone graduate school at least for a little while. I need to gather more information about what a career in law might feel like instead of trusting the negativity too much, but I'm very glad I heard it.

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Skool
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby Skool » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:23 am

ashca2014 wrote:
I'm just curious about how other perspective/current law students deal with the constant negativity and discouragement.


In a way it bothers me, in a way it doesn't.

In terms of how much risk one should be willing to assume in enrolling law school, I think people generally give good advice on these boards.

However, what does bother me is that the board seems to have a strong contingent of people who- debt and risk of professional/financial failure notwithstanding- think practicing as an attorney is bull shit and want to change careers, or whatever (DF and V20 BL Associate immediately come to mind). I wish those people would have the courage to leave the profession and build the lives they want for themselves.

romothesavior wrote:How would you answer the above questions? Where are you looking to go, what kind of debt are you looking at, and what do you want to be doing (I.e., job type and geographic location)?
Also, the tone here bothers me. The thread doesn't seem to be about OP's choices, but how a 0L's values conflict with TLS's general values. But it starts to shift to an inspection of OP's decisions.

Basically, the board treats you like you're retarded until you prove otherwise.

romothesavior wrote:OP did you ever stop and think that maybe, just maybe, those current law students and recent graduates might know a thing or two that you don't? Maybe we have a dash of perspective on this that you lack?
I think it's also helpful for the law students and recent graduates to keep in mind that perhaps there are 0Ls who have helpful perspective on law school/practicing that maybe you didn't have when you were a 0L.

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kalvano
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby kalvano » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:34 am

For what it's worth, I have pretty much the most awesome job and enjoy it quite a bit, and I would still be hesitant to recommend that you go to law school. It's just such a crapshoot as to getting a job, and a job that justifies the time and expense of going to law school.

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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:36 am

ashca2014 wrote:Does the anti-Law School sentiment that seems to have become pretty common these days ever bother anyone?
Even on these forums, I come across posts where members are discouraging others from taking the law school route.

Even on these forums? A large portion of 0L's have been strongly encouraged by friends and family to head to their local TTT at any price, and have found no information to the contrary until they come across these forums. Law school is still generally seen by lay people as a surefire path to riches, or at least a comfortable upper middle class life. TLS is one of the only places where a prospective student can get some honest advice.

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby Ron Don Volante » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:39 am

ashca2014 wrote:Does the anti-Law School sentiment that seems to have become pretty common these days ever bother anyone?

No. It's a good thing. There are probably twice as many law schools as there needs to be. 46% of graduates last year will never become attorneys, and they are, on average, in six figure debt. Why would a broad "don't go" sentiment bother you?
ashca2014 wrote:Even on these forums, I come across posts where members are discouraging others from taking the law school route.
No shit? Law school is not for everyone; there are a limited number of circumstances where it is a justifiable route.
ashca2014 wrote:Does the idea of astronomical debt, no social life, or drowning in a sea of legal course work for three years ever frighten you, or cause you to rethink your choice?

No because I didn't take a debt load I could not afford, no because law school is actually pretty enjoyable outside of finals, and no because notwithstanding three or four months of the year you essentially have a clear schedule as a law student.
ashca2014 wrote:I'm just curious about how other perspective/current law students deal with the constant negativity and discouragement.
(For me personally, despite my inherent pessimism, I'm fairly confident this is the best path for me).

If people are discouraging you, personally, they probably have a good reason for it. You should listen to them.

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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby Cogburn87 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:49 am

Skool wrote: I wish those people would have the courage to leave the profession and build the lives they want for themselves.

It's certainly a lack of courage that keeps unhappy lawyers trapped in this profession. Definitely no other obvious factors at play here

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:52 am

Cogburn87 wrote:
Skool wrote: I wish those people would have the courage to leave the profession and build the lives they want for themselves.

It's certainly a lack of courage that keeps unhappy lawyers trapped in this profession. Definitely no other obvious factors at play here

Hey he said "debt and risk of professional/financial failure notwithstanding" so his argument is unassailable.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby JohannDeMann » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:01 pm

compass wrote:Honestly, the continual drop in LSAT-takers and applicants sometimes makes me feel like I'm jumping onto a sinking ship. Every time someone posts about being excited for the lower number of people competing for spots, a little voice in my head wonders whether we should be excited or looking at those numbers and reevaluating our own decisions.


This is spot on. People are abandoning for a reason. The desirable outcome for 90% of people on this board is not desirable. Some figure out that before law school. Some figure it out at graduation. There are maybe a third of outcomes from any law school that are cool and most everyone could have gotten something just as good by working in corporate/govt america for 3 years after college and climbing rank. If you have a good GPA and go to a T4-14, you're a sucker (presumptuously, though this can be rebutted with shitty major from shitty college with shitty job for 1 year +).

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ChemEng1642
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby ChemEng1642 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:05 pm

ashca2014 wrote:Does the anti-Law School sentiment that seems to have become pretty common these days ever bother anyone?
Even on these forums, I come across posts where members are discouraging others from taking the law school route.
Does the idea of astronomical debt, no social life, or drowning in a sea of legal course work for three years ever frighten you, or cause you to rethink your choice?

I'm just curious about how other perspective/current law students deal with the constant negativity and discouragement.

(For me personally, despite my inherent pessimism, I'm fairly confident this is the best path for me).


As someone going into the profession it definitely bothers me haha - not so much the lack of social life, and debt but more so the fact that people seem to legitimately hate what they do. People generally tell me to stick to engineering because it's stable, reasonable-y well paying, not awful hours (yet) but the fact is I don't really find it enjoyable and from what little (relative to engineering) I know about law I already like it quite a bit better. And that to me is worth the change. This is honestly the first time I've voiced my opinion on TLS because it seems like most people that go in with this sentiment get a verbal lashing from those who understand better.

How do I deal with the constant negativity? I look at my plan and know I have contingencies in place in case it doesn't work out. I do not plan on taking on a significant debt, I am aware of how work can eat your life and I will prioritize accordingly, and if that doesn't work out (I can't find life/work balance, I somehow manage to go 3 years without realizing I hate law and then realize when I start working that I hate it, etc.) I will leave and go back to engineering which is why I got this degree and work experience in the first place - to have a fall back in case law doesn't work out. This plan isn't fool proof but it does make me feel better.

Anyway I'm a perspective student, not current, and I'm not sure if I answered your questions they way you wanted them to be answered but I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.

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chem
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby chem » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:11 pm

ChemEng1642 wrote:
ashca2014 wrote:Does the anti-Law School sentiment that seems to have become pretty common these days ever bother anyone?
Even on these forums, I come across posts where members are discouraging others from taking the law school route.
Does the idea of astronomical debt, no social life, or drowning in a sea of legal course work for three years ever frighten you, or cause you to rethink your choice?

I'm just curious about how other perspective/current law students deal with the constant negativity and discouragement.

(For me personally, despite my inherent pessimism, I'm fairly confident this is the best path for me).


As someone going into the profession it definitely bothers me haha - not so much the lack of social life, and debt but more so the fact that people seem to legitimately hate what they do. People generally tell me to stick to engineering because it's stable, reasonable-y well paying, not awful hours (yet) but the fact is I don't really find it enjoyable and from what little (relative to engineering) I know about law I already like it quite a bit better. And that to me is worth the change. This is honestly the first time I've voiced my opinion on TLS because it seems like most people that go in with this sentiment get a verbal lashing from those who understand better.

How do I deal with the constant negativity? I look at my plan and know I have contingencies in place in case it doesn't work out. I do not plan on taking on a significant debt, I am aware of how work can eat your life and I will prioritize accordingly, and if that doesn't work out (I can't find life/work balance, I somehow manage to go 3 years without realizing I hate law and then realize when I start working that I hate it, etc.) I will leave and go back to engineering which is why I got this degree and work experience in the first place - to have a fall back in case law doesn't work out. This plan isn't fool proof but it does make me feel better.

Anyway I'm a perspective student, not current, and I'm not sure if I answered your questions they way you wanted them to be answered but I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.


As another engineer who is about to practice, and knows many engineers who left to practice law, I have found this group to be the most consistently happy, even in biglaw.

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ChemEng1642
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Re: Bombarded with People Saying "Don't do it!"

Postby ChemEng1642 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:14 pm

chem wrote:
ChemEng1642 wrote:
ashca2014 wrote:Does the anti-Law School sentiment that seems to have become pretty common these days ever bother anyone?
Even on these forums, I come across posts where members are discouraging others from taking the law school route.
Does the idea of astronomical debt, no social life, or drowning in a sea of legal course work for three years ever frighten you, or cause you to rethink your choice?

I'm just curious about how other perspective/current law students deal with the constant negativity and discouragement.

(For me personally, despite my inherent pessimism, I'm fairly confident this is the best path for me).


As someone going into the profession it definitely bothers me haha - not so much the lack of social life, and debt but more so the fact that people seem to legitimately hate what they do. People generally tell me to stick to engineering because it's stable, reasonable-y well paying, not awful hours (yet) but the fact is I don't really find it enjoyable and from what little (relative to engineering) I know about law I already like it quite a bit better. And that to me is worth the change. This is honestly the first time I've voiced my opinion on TLS because it seems like most people that go in with this sentiment get a verbal lashing from those who understand better.

How do I deal with the constant negativity? I look at my plan and know I have contingencies in place in case it doesn't work out. I do not plan on taking on a significant debt, I am aware of how work can eat your life and I will prioritize accordingly, and if that doesn't work out (I can't find life/work balance, I somehow manage to go 3 years without realizing I hate law and then realize when I start working that I hate it, etc.) I will leave and go back to engineering which is why I got this degree and work experience in the first place - to have a fall back in case law doesn't work out. This plan isn't fool proof but it does make me feel better.

Anyway I'm a perspective student, not current, and I'm not sure if I answered your questions they way you wanted them to be answered but I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.


As another engineer who is about to practice, and knows many engineers who left to practice law, I have found this group to be the most consistently happy, even in biglaw.


Wow this is reassuring! Thanks! :)




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