A parent with a few questions

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
gtbguy
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:18 am

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby gtbguy » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:41 pm

15 styx wrote:Simplified. If she has the right stats the law school will cheerfully accept your money. Short of some major felony, most everything else in the application process is moot.


I think this post pretty much summarizes a lot, especially the money part! Law schools are a money maker for a university, plain and simple.

User avatar
AT9
Posts: 1303
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 6:00 pm

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby AT9 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:11 am

OP, sounds like your kid is smart. However (and no offense), when it comes to major life decisions, she will probably be more likely to accept opinions from people in a more objective position (i.e., law students and lawyers on an anonymous internet board) than she is her parent. I had/have a great relationship with my parents, but I was always much more willing to take advice like this from other people than I was my parents as a teenager/young adult. It's fine for you to research and know the ins/outs, but she needs to do this for herself. Direct her here and she'll probably get good, honest input.

Also, as others said, she should take her time and get some experience outside of college. I matured a LOT the three short years between graduation and law school, and I think others usually do too. There's a noticeable difference in general professionalism (and academic success) between those who took a few years off and those fresh out of undergrad.

AReasonableMan
Posts: 1504
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby AReasonableMan » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:21 am

unfortunately, school rank is just a tie breaker. is it that hard to do well? i'd think ivys would have high grade inflation. when i tutored the LSAT to private university students they'd frequently have high GPA's. at weak private colleges this would have no correlation, think 3.9 starting with a 140. a lot of the penn and harvard types started with much higher scores. the process isn't that confusing. it's all numbers. penn may have some secondary benefits, but not for admissions. however, if there is a curve of sorts, the experience of that at a respectable institution is pretty useful.

and yeah, it doesn't cost nearly as much to run a law school as other programs. in addition, while many do poorly, a pretty high percentage succeed relative to other graduate professions. there's a big market in alumni relations. if i ever was rich i'd give money to my law school before my undergrad, which did nothing for me or my career.

BigZuck
Posts: 10872
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby BigZuck » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:31 am

Jesus Christ guys, he has questions and wants to learn, let him learn rather than tell him how to properly parent

Phil Brooks
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:59 pm

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby Phil Brooks » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:14 am

The notion that work experience after undergrad amounts to "taking a break" is misguided. Not only is working a good thing in itself, but it will also drastically improve her legal career prospects, especially if she gets full-time, year-round work experience in a particular field of law. And frankly speaking, when it comes time to picking a law firm, it is much better to be guided by an interest in a field of law that is based on experience, than it is to shoot blindly for "prestige." K-JDs tend to be the most offending of prestige whores, pardon the expression.

thatsnotmyname
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:31 am

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby thatsnotmyname » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:28 am

Phil Brooks wrote:The notion that work experience after undergrad amounts to "taking a break" is misguided. Not only is working a good thing in itself, but it will also drastically improve her legal career prospects, especially if she gets full-time, year-round work experience in a particular field of law. And frankly speaking, when it comes time to picking a law firm, it is much better to be guided by an interest in a field of law that is based on experience, than it is to shoot blindly for "prestige." K-JDs tend to be the most offending of prestige whores, pardon the expression.


CM Punk is posting on a law school message board now? Come back, Punk!

gtbguy
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:18 am

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby gtbguy » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:33 am

BigZuck wrote:Jesus Christ guys, he has questions and wants to learn, let him learn rather than tell him how to properly parent


Any of these parenting posts don't bother me (I've got pretty thick skin), as I said being an engineer I like data and many of these comments are informative. At the end of the day my daughter will do what is best for her as she has done to this point.

gtbguy
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:18 am

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby gtbguy » Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:08 am

AReasonableMan wrote:unfortunately, school rank is just a tie breaker. is it that hard to do well? i'd think ivys would have high grade inflation. when i tutored the LSAT to private university students they'd frequently have high GPA's. at weak private colleges this would have no correlation, think 3.9 starting with a 140. a lot of the penn and harvard types started with much higher scores. the process isn't that confusing. it's all numbers. penn may have some secondary benefits, but not for admissions. however, if there is a curve of sorts, the experience of that at a respectable institution is pretty useful.

and yeah, it doesn't cost nearly as much to run a law school as other programs. in addition, while many do poorly, a pretty high percentage succeed relative to other graduate professions. there's a big market in alumni relations. if i ever was rich i'd give money to my law school before my undergrad, which did nothing for me or my career.


I surely don't think a Penn degree will boost any law school admissions however, I do think it opens up more doors upon graudation when one enters the job market. This would go in line with the secondary benefits you mention.

Personnaly, I don't get the whole grade inflation that many refer to. My daugher works a helluva lot more than I ever did getting an engineering degree from a local state univeristy. I can't see where Penn is boosting her grades. I can't speak for Harvard but getting into Penn out of high school is VERY difficult. High SAT scores, top 1%-2% of your graduating class, blah, blah, blah indicates your probably well prepared for college and any grades you get, you've earned them. For whatever reasons, top private universities (and not just Ivies) seem to get a bad rap regarding grade inflation. This is only my opinion and I definetely don't have any experiences with this. Sorry for getting off topic.

gtbguy
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:18 am

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby gtbguy » Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:16 am

AT9 wrote:OP, sounds like your kid is smart. However (and no offense), when it comes to major life decisions, she will probably be more likely to accept opinions from people in a more objective position (i.e., law students and lawyers on an anonymous internet board) than she is her parent. I had/have a great relationship with my parents, but I was always much more willing to take advice like this from other people than I was my parents as a teenager/young adult. It's fine for you to research and know the ins/outs, but she needs to do this for herself. Direct her here and she'll probably get good, honest input.

Also, as others said, she should take her time and get some experience outside of college. I matured a LOT the three short years between graduation and law school, and I think others usually do too. There's a noticeable difference in general professionalism (and academic success) between those who took a few years off and those fresh out of undergrad.


I agree,teenagers/young adults will listen to others and not parents and that is part of life. When kids hit about 30 they begin to realize mom and dad weren't that stupid or old fashioned after all :)

Obtaining work experience before law school is the prevalent suggestion made here. It will also give her time to save some money as well. Law schools aren't cheap!

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 9646
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:48 am

if you love your child (which it certainly appears you do, props for the involved and caring parenting), you should tell her to avoid law school at all costs and find a better, more rewarding career plan

AReasonableMan
Posts: 1504
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby AReasonableMan » Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:25 pm

BigZuck wrote:Jesus Christ guys, he has questions and wants to learn, let him learn rather than tell him how to properly parent

I'm not a parent, but if I was and invested a lot in raising my child I'd be awfully pissed if some 22-year old told me how I should parent.

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby prezidentv8 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:07 pm

jbagelboy wrote:if you love your child (which it certainly appears you do, props for the involved and caring parenting), you should tell her to avoid law school at all costs and find a better, more rewarding career plan


yeah, gonna go ahead and agree full stop with this.

debt + drudgery is no way to go through life.

AReasonableMan
Posts: 1504
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby AReasonableMan » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:33 pm

gtbguy wrote:
AReasonableMan wrote:unfortunately, school rank is just a tie breaker. is it that hard to do well? i'd think ivys would have high grade inflation. when i tutored the LSAT to private university students they'd frequently have high GPA's. at weak private colleges this would have no correlation, think 3.9 starting with a 140. a lot of the penn and harvard types started with much higher scores. the process isn't that confusing. it's all numbers. penn may have some secondary benefits, but not for admissions. however, if there is a curve of sorts, the experience of that at a respectable institution is pretty useful.

and yeah, it doesn't cost nearly as much to run a law school as other programs. in addition, while many do poorly, a pretty high percentage succeed relative to other graduate professions. there's a big market in alumni relations. if i ever was rich i'd give money to my law school before my undergrad, which did nothing for me or my career.


I surely don't think a Penn degree will boost any law school admissions however, I do think it opens up more doors upon graudation when one enters the job market. This would go in line with the secondary benefits you mention.

Personnaly, I don't get the whole grade inflation that many refer to. My daugher works a helluva lot more than I ever did getting an engineering degree from a local state univeristy. I can't see where Penn is boosting her grades. I can't speak for Harvard but getting into Penn out of high school is VERY difficult. High SAT scores, top 1%-2% of your graduating class, blah, blah, blah indicates your probably well prepared for college and any grades you get, you've earned them. For whatever reasons, top private universities (and not just Ivies) seem to get a bad rap regarding grade inflation. This is only my opinion and I definetely don't have any experiences with this. Sorry for getting off topic.

It's possible that your daughter's education and friends made her smarter than she would be had she not went to Penn, and this will result in a better LSAT and better LS grades. However, this isn't really a measurable benefit. In addition, the success rate of Penn grads would be higher than Drexel even if they had the same exact teachers and curriculum, because Penn grads had to get into Penn.

penn278
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:04 pm

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby penn278 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:38 pm

Penn Law student here.

A few further thoughts:

-There are lots of Penn-Penn kids in the class. I don't think they receive any less financial aid. However, be aware even if your daughter works for a few years they will still take your financial profile into consideration for need aid until she is 30 (no matter if she filed taxes independently).

-Work experience is helpful not just for getting into law school but also very useful for getting a job during the interview process for firms and other employers. This is purely anecdotal, but it seemed like students with work experience had it a lot easier than students who went straight through. If your daughter meets employer 1L grade cutoffs and she has work experience and others don't it can be a huge boost. Work experience also puts things in perspective and makes 1L seem a little less daunting.

-From what I understand, the adcomms understand that a 3.5 at Penn is better than a 3.5 at a local community college or a less intense school. It will be taken into consideration, but the overall stats are important for the schools.

Feel free to PM me with any Penn questions!

User avatar
MagicMike80
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby MagicMike80 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:06 pm

No matter what you think your daughter wants to do, you should STRONGLY urge her to take at least 1, and probably 2, years off. I took 4, and it has been the most important factor in my success to this point. K-JDs are disproportionately susceptible to nervous breakdowns and crying jags. This will also give her time to take and re-take.

thisone2014
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:03 pm

Re: A parent with a few questions

Postby thisone2014 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:59 pm

I know it's hard to fully believe this (my parents, former classmates, friends etc didnt when I tried to explain it to them) but the fact that she went to Penn (vs, say, penn state) won't make a meaningful difference in the admissions process. I wish my parents had understood that because it was tiring having to hear them say over and over "But, you went to a top school!" when I'd already come to terms with the fact that it wasn't going to help me.

On the same note, if she is really serious about law school and she still has flexibility in classes, she should take some easy classes.




Return to “Law School FAQ”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: lizzyluna and 2 guests