Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

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kepani
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Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby kepani » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:30 am

Hey Guys,

My first time posting here on TLS and would appreciate any and all feedback regarding the current position I am in. I graduated from my undergrad 2 years ago with a 2.9 GPA (I know it's mad low compared to the majority of applicants, but nothing I can do about it now).

I've had numerous internships throughout college and currently uphold a part-time position at a marketing firm/work at my family-owned business. I'm shooting for 170+ on the LSAT that I intend to take in June or October (depending on how I feel). I've also enrolled in extension courses since graduating and have taken two classes thus far, receiving A's in both. I am intending to take 2 more extension courses prior to my application (I feel like taking these classes and doing well in them would be beneficial?)

Based upon past experiences etc., what are my chances of enrolling in a T14 school? Does my work experience come into play at all during the decision process? And any advice on what I can do to strengthen my application? I'm intending to apply for the 2016 class year.

Thanks in advance for all the advice!
2015- let's get it.

ub3r
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby ub3r » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:35 am


03152016
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby 03152016 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:44 am

i see northwestern in your future

taking the classes and doing well in them probably won't matter
ditto with the work experience, tho nu seems to like it so who knows

focus on your lsat prep

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby Ron Don Volante » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:45 am

kepani wrote:Based upon past experiences etc., what are my chances of enrolling in a T14 school?

Unfortunately, they are not very good.

That GPA is going to kill you. The courses you take post-graduation won't matter for admissions purposes, either -- they won't factor into your LSAC GPA. If you break 170, you'll get a T14 or two to bite at you, probably. However, you're probably not going to get a good enough scholarship to be able to justify attending; simply, nobody really tosses money at super splitters.

If you really want to be a lawyer you're going to want to lower your expectations. Aim for a strong regional that is friendly to splitters, is cheap, and has strong placement/lots of alumni in the region you want to practice in. Unless you're rich or you really want to have massive levels of debt well into your 30s, your T14 path likely ended at graduation.

Also I get the impression you haven't begun studying. Getting a 170 is easy to say, very hard to do. This is a very long and tough path with modest rewards -- we're talking four years of your life with no income and a lot of debt for what's likely to be a $60K job -- if you're lucky. Make absolutely certain this is a road you want to go down.
-ron don

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d cooper
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby d cooper » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:21 am

Work full time for a few years.

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Clearly
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby Clearly » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:24 am

Brut wrote:i see northwestern in your future

taking the classes and doing well in them probably won't matter
ditto with the work experience, tho nu seems to like it so who knows

focus on your lsat prep

Even this is ambitious. I'm not seeing the type of post-grad employment NU is looking for.
Regardless, materialize your LSAT first, then worry.

kepani
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby kepani » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:11 am

Ron Don Volante wrote:
kepani wrote:Based upon past experiences etc., what are my chances of enrolling in a T14 school?

Unfortunately, they are not very good.

That GPA is going to kill you. The courses you take post-graduation won't matter for admissions purposes, either -- they won't factor into your LSAC GPA. If you break 170, you'll get a T14 or two to bite at you, probably. However, you're probably not going to get a good enough scholarship to be able to justify attending; simply, nobody really tosses money at super splitters.

If you really want to be a lawyer you're going to want to lower your expectations. Aim for a strong regional that is friendly to splitters, is cheap, and has strong placement/lots of alumni in the region you want to practice in. Unless you're rich or you really want to have massive levels of debt well into your 30s, your T14 path likely ended at graduation.


I'm based in Los Angeles, and I would gladly attend USC/UCLA/LMU... Do you have any input on these? I know that reaching for the T14 is a stretch, but I don't see why I shouldn't give some of them a shot, considering I've pretty much dedicated these next 5-7 months purely focused on my LSAT prep.

Also thank you all for the quick response!

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Aurelius85
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby Aurelius85 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:40 am

I know you asked about your chances...I can't answer that, I don't think anyone can, all anyone can do is give you approximations. My post addresses any doubts or fears you may develop after some of the posts your thread has received. This may be interpreted as irresponsible and nonsensical by many of the regular posters, nevertheless I understand where you're coming from and what you're going through so my advice would be that if you really want to go to law school, and I mean you're really committed to this field of study and you understand wholeheartedly the sacrifices and difficulties you'll probably have to experience (money wise, employment wise), I would encourage you to work like hell for the best possible score on the LSAT and load up on as much experience as possible before applying. Don't rule any school out just because the numbers prove otherwise. Principally, do your best on the LSAT, even if that means postponing it until you're regularly scoring in the 170's on PTs. You're still young and law school's not going to go away, so given your GPA you need to ensure that you score your highest on the LSAT, even if that means you don't go to law school next year or the year after that. In addition, load up on as much experience and volunteer work as possible. Even if some people say work experience and volunteering don't add anything, these experiences can't hurt you, so why not have them? Once you've got your +170 if you're able to reach it and you've got a wealth of work experience and volunteer work (along with LORs), apply to every school you're interested in. Attempt the impossible, perhaps you get a shot at a T14 school or another, it's at least worth trying. Don't let others talk you out of doing what you want to do. I know I'm gonna get flamed for my position...but if you're committed to this and you understand the hardships you'll suffer and you're okay with them, don't let others decide for you. You may fail or you may be in debt for the rest of your life, but at least you tried and you did what you wanted to do.

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby Ron Don Volante » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:42 pm

Aurelius85 wrote:I know you asked about your chances...I can't answer that, I don't think anyone can, all anyone can do is give you approximations. My post addresses any doubts or fears you may develop after some of the posts your thread has received. This may be interpreted as irresponsible and nonsensical by many of the regular posters, nevertheless I understand where you're coming from and what you're going through so my advice would be that if you really want to go to law school, and I mean you're really committed to this field of study and you understand wholeheartedly the sacrifices and difficulties you'll probably have to experience (money wise, employment wise), I would encourage you to work like hell for the best possible score on the LSAT and load up on as much experience as possible before applying. Don't rule any school out just because the numbers prove otherwise. Principally, do your best on the LSAT, even if that means postponing it until you're regularly scoring in the 170's on PTs. You're still young and law school's not going to go away, so given your GPA you need to ensure that you score your highest on the LSAT, even if that means you don't go to law school next year or the year after that. In addition, load up on as much experience and volunteer work as possible. Even if some people say work experience and volunteering don't add anything, these experiences can't hurt you, so why not have them? Once you've got your +170 if you're able to reach it and you've got a wealth of work experience and volunteer work (along with LORs), apply to every school you're interested in. Attempt the impossible, perhaps you get a shot at a T14 school or another, it's at least worth trying. Don't let others talk you out of doing what you want to do. I know I'm gonna get flamed for my position...but if you're committed to this and you understand the hardships you'll suffer and you're okay with them, don't let others decide for you. You may fail or you may be in debt for the rest of your life, but at least you tried and you did what you wanted to do.

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pamphleteer
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby pamphleteer » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:42 pm

kepani wrote:
Ron Don Volante wrote:
kepani wrote:Based upon past experiences etc., what are my chances of enrolling in a T14 school?

Unfortunately, they are not very good.

That GPA is going to kill you. The courses you take post-graduation won't matter for admissions purposes, either -- they won't factor into your LSAC GPA. If you break 170, you'll get a T14 or two to bite at you, probably. However, you're probably not going to get a good enough scholarship to be able to justify attending; simply, nobody really tosses money at super splitters.

If you really want to be a lawyer you're going to want to lower your expectations. Aim for a strong regional that is friendly to splitters, is cheap, and has strong placement/lots of alumni in the region you want to practice in. Unless you're rich or you really want to have massive levels of debt well into your 30s, your T14 path likely ended at graduation.


I'm based in Los Angeles, and I would gladly attend USC/UCLA/LMU... Do you have any input on these? I know that reaching for the T14 is a stretch, but I don't see why I shouldn't give some of them a shot, considering I've pretty much dedicated these next 5-7 months purely focused on my LSAT prep.

Also thank you all for the quick response!


Don't go to LMU. Speaking as a fellow CA super splitter, the UCs as a whole are not kind to splitters and that especially applies at the top with Boalt/UCLA. If you break 170, UCLA is certainly worth an shot, particularly with applications declining, but it's unlikely you'll be given a large enough scholarship to make attending worthwhile.

Make sure you kill the LSAT. It's a beatable test but it's going to take hard work to get to the score you need in order to have viable options. As ron don said, a full scholarship to a strong regional in an area you want to practice (it won't be California) or perhaps a school like WUSTL is probably your best-case scenario unless you have rich parents willing to foot the bill at Northwestern or GULC.

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lawschool1741
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby lawschool1741 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:12 pm

Try not to get ahead of yourself here, taking the test is all that matters right now. Go get yourself a 180, then come get advice.

Either way, definitely think hard about your chances at a job in CA. Literally (one of?) the most saturated legal market(s) in the US. Unless you go to a top school and get top grades, you will not find any job worth taking in CA.

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby Ron Don Volante » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:55 pm

Yeah sadly we can almost guarantee you that going to a school in California is not going to be a realistic possibility/justifiable option.

If California is your biggest concern -- and I am sorry to say this -- but you simply need to pick another profession. The time, effort, money and risk such an endeavor is going to require with your GPA is simply not worth the reward. There's no way the math adds up. Save yourself the LSAT time and take some computer science classes.

kepani
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby kepani » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:09 pm

Ron Don Volante wrote:Yeah sadly we can almost guarantee you that going to a school in California is not going to be a realistic possibility/justifiable option.

If California is your biggest concern -- and I am sorry to say this -- but you simply need to pick another profession. The time, effort, money and risk such an endeavor is going to require with your GPA is simply not worth the reward. There's no way the math adds up. Save yourself the LSAT time and take some computer science classes.


ron where did you go to school and are you a practicing lawyer

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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby mvp99 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:16 pm

kepani wrote:
Ron Don Volante wrote:Yeah sadly we can almost guarantee you that going to a school in California is not going to be a realistic possibility/justifiable option.

If California is your biggest concern -- and I am sorry to say this -- but you simply need to pick another profession. The time, effort, money and risk such an endeavor is going to require with your GPA is simply not worth the reward. There's no way the math adds up. Save yourself the LSAT time and take some computer science classes.


ron where did you go to school and are you a practicing lawyer

if you study for the lsat you will understand that the purpose of these questions has name and its a fallacy
Last edited by mvp99 on Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

03152016
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby 03152016 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:17 pm

what a great question
everyone knows that practicing lawyers who went to law school a decade ago give great advice about admission and scholarship chances

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rondemarino
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby rondemarino » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:18 pm

Brut wrote:taking the classes and doing well in them probably won't matter
ditto with the work experience, tho nu seems to like it so who knows

focus on your lsat prep


This. Unless you get a PhD in rocket science prior to applying, no one will give a shit about your extension courses. Actually, even if you get the PhD in rocket science, I'm not sure it'll mean that much.

kepani
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby kepani » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:55 pm

Brut wrote:what a great question
everyone knows that practicing lawyers who went to law school a decade ago give great advice about admission and scholarship chances


touche

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby Ron Don Volante » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:12 pm

kepani wrote:
Ron Don Volante wrote:Yeah sadly we can almost guarantee you that going to a school in California is not going to be a realistic possibility/justifiable option.

If California is your biggest concern -- and I am sorry to say this -- but you simply need to pick another profession. The time, effort, money and risk such an endeavor is going to require with your GPA is simply not worth the reward. There's no way the math adds up. Save yourself the LSAT time and take some computer science classes.


ron where did you go to school and are you a practicing lawyer

I am a student at UT. I know this process inside and out, though, and I'm sincerely trying to help you. I can almost assure you that you'll regret this path, but, hey, it's your funeral.

As another poster mentioned, you have a long way to go to get to 170 if you're spouting fallacies like these non-sardonically.

kepani
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby kepani » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:53 pm

Ron Don Volante wrote:
kepani wrote:
Ron Don Volante wrote:Yeah sadly we can almost guarantee you that going to a school in California is not going to be a realistic possibility/justifiable option.

If California is your biggest concern -- and I am sorry to say this -- but you simply need to pick another profession. The time, effort, money and risk such an endeavor is going to require with your GPA is simply not worth the reward. There's no way the math adds up. Save yourself the LSAT time and take some computer science classes.


ron where did you go to school and are you a practicing lawyer

I am a student at UT. I know this process inside and out, though, and I'm sincerely trying to help you. I can almost assure you that you'll regret this path, but, hey, it's your funeral.

As another poster mentioned, you have a long way to go to get to 170 if you're spouting fallacies like these non-sardonically.


Point taken, yet you have no context as to why I'm pursuing a JD... Let's not jump to rash conclusions. Regardless, appreciate the feedback and I wish you the best.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:36 pm

Not sure why RDV crossed out that post. Seemed like good advice. Didn't realize "get a high LSAT and pursue good work/volunteering experience and see what happens" was no longer good advice.

kepani
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby kepani » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:02 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:Not sure why RDV crossed out that post. Seemed like good advice. Didn't realize "get a high LSAT and pursue good work/volunteering experience and see what happens" was no longer good advice.


pessimism at its finest.

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lawschool1741
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby lawschool1741 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:15 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:Not sure why RDV crossed out that post. Seemed like good advice. Didn't realize "get a high LSAT and pursue good work/volunteering experience and see what happens" was no longer good advice.

IMO it was more of the feeling of 'just go for it!' So what if you fail and end up in debt for the rest of your life? Sure there are more reasonable and statistically beneficial paths, but why not?

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby Ron Don Volante » Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:00 pm

lawschool1741 wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Not sure why RDV crossed out that post. Seemed like good advice. Didn't realize "get a high LSAT and pursue good work/volunteering experience and see what happens" was no longer good advice.

IMO it was more of the feeling of 'just go for it!' So what if you fail and end up in debt for the rest of your life? Sure there are more reasonable and statistically beneficial paths, but why not?

Basically this.

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby Ron Don Volante » Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:08 pm

kepani wrote:Point taken, yet you have no context as to why I'm pursuing a JD... Let's not jump to rash conclusions. Regardless, appreciate the feedback and I wish you the best.

But I don't really need context. Gunning for cali with an LSAC GPA in the 2s is a bad proposition, period. I don't think you understand the extent of the investment law school requires, especially in a situation like this. Could you come out in a decent position? Of course, but the odds are seriously against you.

Again, if you have any other possible career paths that you can take, I would strongly advise you to give them a whirl. Law school will always be there in five or ten years if your other options flame out, and by that point a lot may have changed (for the better) in law school admissions and financing.

Good luck to you, too.

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Aurelius85
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Re: Work Experience + LSAT + Low GPA

Postby Aurelius85 » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:18 pm

Ron, if the guy's intent on pursuing law, no matter what you or I say he's gonna follow through with it. Then again, you may be right, if he took the time to post perhaps its because he's got some doubt. Nevertheless, thanks for the cred.




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