Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

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M.M.
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Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby M.M. » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:02 pm

Hi all, quick question ... I scored a 161 two years ago, well below my PT average, and probably didn't do much better this test (I am sure of this), maybe got a 163, well below my PT average. I know I can get at least 168+. I've consistently scored 170+ and can study harder than ever, and will. But right now it looks like I'm going to have to apply to the schools I want with my one, terrible score and a cancelled score on the books. I graduated w/ a 3.72 and went on to get my master's abroad. What I worry about is a. my chances of being accepted diminishing due to rolling admissions, and b. them simply tossing my application without a score that even comes close to being appropriate, regardless of whether I'm retaking or not. I can't say that I'd blame them much. I'm going to go ahead and apply to a couple T14, probably Berkeley, Michigan, Cornell, Duke, UCLA (aware that it's 15th). But what are the implications of my having failed to get my score this December?

BigZuck
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:06 pm

M.M. wrote:Hi all, quick question ... I scored a 161 two years ago, well below my PT average, and probably didn't do much better this test (I am sure of this), maybe got a 163, well below my PT average. I know I can get at least 168+. I've consistently scored 170+ and can study harder than ever, and will. But right now it looks like I'm going to have to apply to the schools I want with my one, terrible score and a cancelled score on the books. I graduated w/ a 3.72 and went on to get my master's abroad. What I worry about is a. my chances of being accepted diminishing due to rolling admissions, and b. them simply tossing my application without a score that even comes close to being appropriate, regardless of whether I'm retaking or not. I can't say that I'd blame them much. I'm going to go ahead and apply to a couple T14, probably Berkeley, Michigan, Cornell, Duke, UCLA (aware that it's 15th). But what are the implications of my having failed to get my score this December?


Not sure I understand the question but I would wait until you have the proper lsat score to apply. If you're taking in February then that's probably within their deadlines but I guess check with each school. Or, just apply next cycle on day one.

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ballcaps
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby ballcaps » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:27 pm

your explanation is highly convoluted, to be frank. basically, you have 161, just retook and think it went poorly, correct? have you actually cancelled your december score?

in any event, the logistics surrounding the december test (canceling, informing, waiting) are irrelevant, since you just said you're sure you didn't break 163, and therefore have close to a 0% chance at those schools, absent some astonishing softs.

does that make sense? looks like a cancel-and-sit-out-the-cycle situation to me.

M.M.
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby M.M. » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:44 pm

ballcaps wrote:your explanation is highly convoluted, to be frank. basically, you have 161, just retook and think it went poorly, correct? have you actually cancelled your december score?

in any event, the logistics surrounding the december test (canceling, informing, waiting) are irrelevant, since you just said you're sure you didn't break 163, and therefore have close to a 0% chance at those schools, absent some astonishing softs.

does that make sense? looks like a cancel-and-sit-out-the-cycle situation to me.


Yeah, sorry, my head's honestly been all sorts of fucked up since Saturday. What I'm essentially asking is, is there any chance I can apply there notifying them my intention to retake and have them put my app on hold until I get my new score? Such that I could then send them my new score and have them read my app accordingly?

And MAN I didn't want to hear that ... I'm already a year and a half past undergrad and I really, really hate the prospect of not moving on until 18 months from now. I really don't know wtf to do.

BigZuck
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:18 pm

M.M. wrote:
ballcaps wrote:your explanation is highly convoluted, to be frank. basically, you have 161, just retook and think it went poorly, correct? have you actually cancelled your december score?

in any event, the logistics surrounding the december test (canceling, informing, waiting) are irrelevant, since you just said you're sure you didn't break 163, and therefore have close to a 0% chance at those schools, absent some astonishing softs.

does that make sense? looks like a cancel-and-sit-out-the-cycle situation to me.


Yeah, sorry, my head's honestly been all sorts of fucked up since Saturday. What I'm essentially asking is, is there any chance I can apply there notifying them my intention to retake and have them put my app on hold until I get my new score? Such that I could then send them my new score and have them read my app accordingly?

And MAN I didn't want to hear that ... I'm already a year and a half past undergrad and I really, really hate the prospect of not moving on until 18 months from now. I really don't know wtf to do.


Don't go until it makes sense to go. It's the rest of your life you're talking about. Plus, gap years are cool cuz you can have fun and do cool stuff, which is way better/more productive than going to law school.

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ballcaps
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby ballcaps » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:40 pm

M.M. wrote:
ballcaps wrote:your explanation is highly convoluted, to be frank. basically, you have 161, just retook and think it went poorly, correct? have you actually cancelled your december score?

in any event, the logistics surrounding the december test (canceling, informing, waiting) are irrelevant, since you just said you're sure you didn't break 163, and therefore have close to a 0% chance at those schools, absent some astonishing softs.

does that make sense? looks like a cancel-and-sit-out-the-cycle situation to me.


Yeah, sorry, my head's honestly been all sorts of fucked up since Saturday. What I'm essentially asking is, is there any chance I can apply there notifying them my intention to retake and have them put my app on hold until I get my new score? Such that I could then send them my new score and have them read my app accordingly?

And MAN I didn't want to hear that ... I'm already a year and a half past undergrad and I really, really hate the prospect of not moving on until 18 months from now. I really don't know wtf to do.


1) take a breath. actually, take like 10.
2) sure you can, but they're either going to wait to review your app or they're not; if they DON'T, they'll go off the 161, which, statistically speaking, means rejection (sorry); if they DO, you'll be applying sometime in january with a maximum score of 163, by your own account - this also means rejection (sorry again)
3) 1.5 years is not a particularly long time to take between UG and LS. the best possible thing you can do, if you're still serious about LS, which apparently you are, is find a meaningful job for a year while you study for a retake. i know it's not what you want to hear, but the alternative is to tell you to go ahead and apply, then watch as you get rejected and placed into an unambiguously worse situation just a few months from now.

listen to all these very reasonable people and do the hard thing.

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Rigo
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby Rigo » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:41 pm

M.M. wrote:I'm already a year and a half past undergrad and I really, really hate the prospect of not moving on until 18 months from now. I really don't know wtf to do.

I don't know if you should go to law school anymore seeing as how you're basically one foot in the grave in the eyes of hiring partners. You won't get as many interviews at OCI because firms are really looking to scale back healthcare costs and people your age will be seen as costing more than they're worth.

lsatsohard
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby lsatsohard » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:57 pm

Hey,

Just joined, just to reply to your question.
I don't know if you have already started on your applications yet, but on it, there is a section in which you get to tell the law schools whether you will be taking any future LSATs. If you say yes, you also get to specify which one you are planning on taking. Given the time constraint, the only option you have is to take the February test, if you are planning on taking it again. This way, you may submit your application with the scores you currently have, but the adcom people won't review your application until your latest score is in. Now keep it mind that as time goes, spots are filling up. So plan on taking the Feb LSAT only if you are certain you are going to get a better score.

Also, if you don't want to go with ballcaps's advice and get a job, my suggestion is to try to get into the best school possible, and transfer to a better school after your first year. Of course, you will have to work your ass off, though.

M.M.
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby M.M. » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:00 pm

ballcaps wrote:
M.M. wrote:
ballcaps wrote:your explanation is highly convoluted, to be frank. basically, you have 161, just retook and think it went poorly, correct? have you actually cancelled your december score?

in any event, the logistics surrounding the december test (canceling, informing, waiting) are irrelevant, since you just said you're sure you didn't break 163, and therefore have close to a 0% chance at those schools, absent some astonishing softs.

does that make sense? looks like a cancel-and-sit-out-the-cycle situation to me.


Yeah, sorry, my head's honestly been all sorts of fucked up since Saturday. What I'm essentially asking is, is there any chance I can apply there notifying them my intention to retake and have them put my app on hold until I get my new score? Such that I could then send them my new score and have them read my app accordingly?

And MAN I didn't want to hear that ... I'm already a year and a half past undergrad and I really, really hate the prospect of not moving on until 18 months from now. I really don't know wtf to do.


1) take a breath. actually, take like 10.
2) sure you can, but they're either going to wait to review your app or they're not; if they DON'T, they'll go off the 161, which, statistically speaking, means rejection (sorry); if they DO, you'll be applying sometime in january with a maximum score of 163, by your own account - this also means rejection (sorry again)
3) 1.5 years is not a particularly long time to take between UG and LS. the best possible thing you can do, if you're still serious about LS, which apparently you are, is find a meaningful job for a year while you study for a retake. i know it's not what you want to hear, but the alternative is to tell you to go ahead and apply, then watch as you get rejected and placed into an unambiguously worse situation just a few months from now.

listen to all these very reasonable people and do the hard thing.


1. I'm tens of thousands in debt
2. I have a dual sociology and philosophy degree, with a sociology masters. The jobs are nonexistent.
3. I'm already 1.5 years between UG and LS. Waiting until next cycle will make it over 3 years.

Would it be possible to apply, risk chance of rejection but also add the chance of being accepted after they see the new score, and then if I do get rejected, apply again next cycle? What I mean to ask, more clearly, is: if I get denied this cycle, will it hurt my chances for next cycle?

M.M.
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby M.M. » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:02 pm

lsatsohard wrote:Hey,

Just joined, just to reply to your question.
I don't know if you have already started on your applications yet, but on it, there is a section in which you get to tell the law schools whether you will be taking any future LSATs. If you say yes, you also get to specify which one you are planning on taking. Given the time constraint, the only option you have is to take the February test, if you are planning on taking it again. This way, you may submit your application with the scores you currently have, but the adcom people won't review your application until your latest score is in. Now keep it mind that as time goes, spots are filling up. So plan on taking the Feb LSAT only if you are certain you are going to get a better score.

Also, if you don't want to go with ballcaps's advice and get a job, my suggestion is to try to get into the best school possible, and transfer to a better school after your first year. Of course, you will have to work your ass off, though.


Thanks for the response and added effort to sign up, this is sort of what I wanted to hear. Some in this thread are making it seem that if I do apply and get rejected, I'll lose my chances at being accepted to those schools next cycle though? Man my head is really done in right now, I legitimately feel like an idiot so sorry if all my responses are hard to parse.

M.M.
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby M.M. » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:03 pm

BigZuck wrote:
M.M. wrote:
ballcaps wrote:your explanation is highly convoluted, to be frank. basically, you have 161, just retook and think it went poorly, correct? have you actually cancelled your december score?

in any event, the logistics surrounding the december test (canceling, informing, waiting) are irrelevant, since you just said you're sure you didn't break 163, and therefore have close to a 0% chance at those schools, absent some astonishing softs.

does that make sense? looks like a cancel-and-sit-out-the-cycle situation to me.


Yeah, sorry, my head's honestly been all sorts of fucked up since Saturday. What I'm essentially asking is, is there any chance I can apply there notifying them my intention to retake and have them put my app on hold until I get my new score? Such that I could then send them my new score and have them read my app accordingly?

And MAN I didn't want to hear that ... I'm already a year and a half past undergrad and I really, really hate the prospect of not moving on until 18 months from now. I really don't know wtf to do.


Don't go until it makes sense to go. It's the rest of your life you're talking about. Plus, gap years are cool cuz you can have fun and do cool stuff, which is way better/more productive than going to law school.


I'd usually agree, but I already had my gap year ... and I really feel like there aren't many other options for me in this town and with my degrees.

Life2good893
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby Life2good893 » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:11 pm

I don't think the 161 is going to fly for a T14 unless you are URM and even then it's pushing it. If you are sure that you got a 163-ish score in December and you know you can do much better you should cancel your score. The February test date is the last that most first tier schools will accept but I've seen people with 175 LSATs and 3.8 GPAs turned down to bottom T14s (like Cornell and Georgetown) when applying in early March.

If you are serious about going to a good school, the (second) gap year is going to be necessary. Also, by the way, you can only retake the LSAT twice (for a three time total) in a 2? year period. Double check that though.

BigZuck
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:17 pm

M.M. wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
M.M. wrote:
ballcaps wrote:your explanation is highly convoluted, to be frank. basically, you have 161, just retook and think it went poorly, correct? have you actually cancelled your december score?

in any event, the logistics surrounding the december test (canceling, informing, waiting) are irrelevant, since you just said you're sure you didn't break 163, and therefore have close to a 0% chance at those schools, absent some astonishing softs.

does that make sense? looks like a cancel-and-sit-out-the-cycle situation to me.


Yeah, sorry, my head's honestly been all sorts of fucked up since Saturday. What I'm essentially asking is, is there any chance I can apply there notifying them my intention to retake and have them put my app on hold until I get my new score? Such that I could then send them my new score and have them read my app accordingly?

And MAN I didn't want to hear that ... I'm already a year and a half past undergrad and I really, really hate the prospect of not moving on until 18 months from now. I really don't know wtf to do.


Don't go until it makes sense to go. It's the rest of your life you're talking about. Plus, gap years are cool cuz you can have fun and do cool stuff, which is way better/more productive than going to law school.


I'd usually agree, but I already had my gap year ... and I really feel like there aren't many other options for me in this town and with my degrees.


Move to a different town. Or work retail if you have to. Hell, I did both and I was way older than you

eta: What I'm saying is if you're desperate and want to make money to pay off debt and are fearful of having a useless degree, law school is probably the worst thing you can throw yourself into.

Relax, take a step back, and do it right
Last edited by BigZuck on Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:18 pm

lsatsohard wrote:Hey,

Just joined, just to reply to your question.
I don't know if you have already started on your applications yet, but on it, there is a section in which you get to tell the law schools whether you will be taking any future LSATs. If you say yes, you also get to specify which one you are planning on taking. Given the time constraint, the only option you have is to take the February test, if you are planning on taking it again. This way, you may submit your application with the scores you currently have, but the adcom people won't review your application until your latest score is in. Now keep it mind that as time goes, spots are filling up. So plan on taking the Feb LSAT only if you are certain you are going to get a better score.

Also, if you don't want to go with ballcaps's advice and get a job, my suggestion is to try to get into the best school possible, and transfer to a better school after your first year. Of course, you will have to work your ass off, though.


You felt compelled to create an account so you could tell someone to go to some rando regional school and try to transfer up?

No. Just no dude.

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ballcaps
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby ballcaps » Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:27 pm

M.M. wrote:
ballcaps wrote:
M.M. wrote:
ballcaps wrote:your explanation is highly convoluted, to be frank. basically, you have 161, just retook and think it went poorly, correct? have you actually cancelled your december score?

in any event, the logistics surrounding the december test (canceling, informing, waiting) are irrelevant, since you just said you're sure you didn't break 163, and therefore have close to a 0% chance at those schools, absent some astonishing softs.

does that make sense? looks like a cancel-and-sit-out-the-cycle situation to me.


Yeah, sorry, my head's honestly been all sorts of fucked up since Saturday. What I'm essentially asking is, is there any chance I can apply there notifying them my intention to retake and have them put my app on hold until I get my new score? Such that I could then send them my new score and have them read my app accordingly?

And MAN I didn't want to hear that ... I'm already a year and a half past undergrad and I really, really hate the prospect of not moving on until 18 months from now. I really don't know wtf to do.


1) take a breath. actually, take like 10.
2) sure you can, but they're either going to wait to review your app or they're not; if they DON'T, they'll go off the 161, which, statistically speaking, means rejection (sorry); if they DO, you'll be applying sometime in january with a maximum score of 163, by your own account - this also means rejection (sorry again)
3) 1.5 years is not a particularly long time to take between UG and LS. the best possible thing you can do, if you're still serious about LS, which apparently you are, is find a meaningful job for a year while you study for a retake. i know it's not what you want to hear, but the alternative is to tell you to go ahead and apply, then watch as you get rejected and placed into an unambiguously worse situation just a few months from now.

listen to all these very reasonable people and do the hard thing.


1. I'm tens of thousands in debt
2. I have a dual sociology and philosophy degree, with a sociology masters. The jobs are nonexistent.
3. I'm already 1.5 years between UG and LS. Waiting until next cycle will make it over 3 years.

Would it be possible to apply, risk chance of rejection but also add the chance of being accepted after they see the new score, and then if I do get rejected, apply again next cycle? What I mean to ask, more clearly, is: if I get denied this cycle, will it hurt my chances for next cycle?


no it will not, provided you fix the problem(s) that resulted in your rejection in the first place (in this case, your LSAT score.)

it will, however, cost at least $100 (app fee + processing fee) for each application you submit, since you're unlikely to get waivers being a non-URM (right?) with a 161. so, if money is a concern, it may be unwise, especially given your literally zero percent chance of scholarship money in the t14 (and probably t20, for that matter) with a 161.

lsatsohard
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby lsatsohard » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:17 am

BigZuck wrote:
lsatsohard wrote:Hey,

Just joined, just to reply to your question.
I don't know if you have already started on your applications yet, but on it, there is a section in which you get to tell the law schools whether you will be taking any future LSATs. If you say yes, you also get to specify which one you are planning on taking. Given the time constraint, the only option you have is to take the February test, if you are planning on taking it again. This way, you may submit your application with the scores you currently have, but the adcom people won't review your application until your latest score is in. Now keep it mind that as time goes, spots are filling up. So plan on taking the Feb LSAT only if you are certain you are going to get a better score.

Also, if you don't want to go with ballcaps's advice and get a job, my suggestion is to try to get into the best school possible, and transfer to a better school after your first year. Of course, you will have to work your ass off, though.


You felt compelled to create an account so you could tell someone to go to some rando regional school and try to transfer up?

No. Just no dude.


Chill out Zuck. Who says he/she has to go to a rando regional school? There are plenty of decent law schools that have a pretty good chance of accepting him, assuming a good GPA. And besides, what would YOU recommend? Given that he's already taken a gap year, there doesn't seem to be that many choices. I don't mean to discourage you M.M.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:20 am

He can take another "gap" year. He could take multiple. It won't hurt him and will probably help him.

BigZuck
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Re: Applying for T14 with a 161 and a notice about retaking?

Postby BigZuck » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:45 am

lsatsohard wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
lsatsohard wrote:Hey,

Just joined, just to reply to your question.
I don't know if you have already started on your applications yet, but on it, there is a section in which you get to tell the law schools whether you will be taking any future LSATs. If you say yes, you also get to specify which one you are planning on taking. Given the time constraint, the only option you have is to take the February test, if you are planning on taking it again. This way, you may submit your application with the scores you currently have, but the adcom people won't review your application until your latest score is in. Now keep it mind that as time goes, spots are filling up. So plan on taking the Feb LSAT only if you are certain you are going to get a better score.

Also, if you don't want to go with ballcaps's advice and get a job, my suggestion is to try to get into the best school possible, and transfer to a better school after your first year. Of course, you will have to work your ass off, though.


You felt compelled to create an account so you could tell someone to go to some rando regional school and try to transfer up?

No. Just no dude.


Chill out Zuck. Who says he/she has to go to a rando regional school? There are plenty of decent law schools that have a pretty good chance of accepting him, assuming a good GPA. And besides, what would YOU recommend? Given that he's already taken a gap year, there doesn't seem to be that many choices. I don't mean to discourage you M.M.


I was in my late 20s when I started law school, I also put it off for a cycle to retake when I didn't like my options the first time around. I can't relate to the whole "I'm 23, gotta go NOW" thing. I also worked a crappy job and moved to another town. It's totally doable.

I also think it's strange to act like law school is the only option. Someone is tens of thousands in debt so they should just roll the dice at a school like Washington and Lee just in hopes of transferring to a T14 and paying sticker there for 2 years?

No, I'm sorry. Just no.




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