Undergrad Reputation in Biglaw hiring Forum

[jbagelboy]

How much does high-school preftige matter for BIGLAW???

One time during an interview the guy looked at my resume, saw I hadn't attended exeter phillips, and threw my resume into the trash

Lol well probably because you didn't say it right.

[pedestrian]

Ok fair enough. But still, if you were constantly surrounded by duds, I think it might significantly restrict your worldview without necessarily impacting your ability to do well on the LSATs and then write a decent torts exam. I think you're giving too much weight to eight law exams for predicting intellectual ability.

Yeah, and going to exclusively elite schools doesn't restrict your worldview at all.

[Hipster but Athletic]

Ok fair enough. But still, if you were constantly surrounded by duds, I think it might significantly restrict your worldview without necessarily impacting your ability to do well on the LSATs and then write a decent torts exam. I think you're giving too much weight to eight law exams for predicting intellectual ability.

Yeah, and going to exclusively elite schools doesn't restrict your worldview at all.

bc spending too much time around smart people makes you forget about idiots? Oh what a shame!

[A. Nony Mouse]

Ok fair enough. But still, if you were constantly surrounded by duds, I think it might significantly restrict your worldview without necessarily impacting your ability to do well on the LSATs and then write a decent torts exam. I think you're giving too much weight to eight law exams for predicting intellectual ability.

I'm not giving any particular weight to those exams. Law firms hiring law students might be, but that's different. Also, the whole point is that being at an UG with average lower high school grades/SAT scores than some other school does not mean that you're "constantly surrounded by duds."

[Hipster but Athletic]

Ok fair enough. But still, if you were constantly surrounded by duds, I think it might significantly restrict your worldview without necessarily impacting your ability to do well on the LSATs and then write a decent torts exam. I think you're giving too much weight to eight law exams for predicting intellectual ability.

I'm not giving any particular weight to those exams. Law firms hiring law students might be, but that's different. Also, the whole point is that being at an UG with average lower high school grades/SAT scores than some other school does not mean that you're "constantly surrounded by duds."

It's just a factor and I contend it's a very legitimate one.

[moonman157]

How much does high-school preftige matter for BIGLAW???

If your 11th grade pre-calc class didn't have RIGOR then how are you supposed to be a good biglaw attorney?

[KatyMarie]

Ok fair enough. But still, if you were constantly surrounded by duds, I think it might significantly restrict your worldview without necessarily impacting your ability to do well on the LSATs and then write a decent torts exam. I think you're giving too much weight to eight law exams for predicting intellectual ability.

Yeah, and going to exclusively elite schools doesn't restrict your worldview at all.

bc spending too much time around smart people makes you forget about idiots? Oh what a shame!

One element of this equation that you aren't addressing is money. Lots of smart people wind up in less-prestigious undergrad institutions because mom and dad can't pay for you to go to Princeton.

While we're talking anecdote-ally- I had 4.0 in high school, top SAT scores, honors track etc. Out of my peers, the kids with family money tended to go to top undergrad universities. Those of us without it tended to take the free-ride deal at less prestigious universities.

I went that route, and I'm glad I did. I can't imagine being strapped with undergrad debt on top of the debt I'll be taking out for law school. I did well in undergrad and made every effort to seek out the best professors that I could from within my university, and I never felt like I was "surrounded by duds" or that my worldview was being restricted by my choice. If anything, it was pretty eye-opening to meet people from so many different backgrounds. Sure we had some dumb-as-rocks students. We had some people who never showed up to class and could not have cared less. But we had some really bright, motivated people there for various reasons.

[patogordo]

Ok fair enough. But still, if you were constantly surrounded by duds, I think it might significantly restrict your worldview without necessarily impacting your ability to do well on the LSATs and then write a decent torts exam. I think you're giving too much weight to eight law exams for predicting intellectual ability.

Yeah, and going to exclusively elite schools doesn't restrict your worldview at all.

bc spending too much time around smart people makes you forget about idiots? Oh what a shame!

One element of this equation that you aren't addressing is money. Lots of smart people wind up in less-prestigious undergrad institutions because mom and dad can't pay for you to go to Princeton.

While we're talking anecdote-ally- I had 4.0 in high school, top SAT scores, honors track etc. Out of my peers, the kids with family money tended to go to top undergrad universities. Those of us without it tended to take the free-ride deal at less prestigious universities.

I went that route, and I'm glad I did. I can't imagine being strapped with undergrad debt on top of the debt I'll be taking out for law school. I did well in undergrad and made every effort to seek out the best professors that I could from within my university, and I never felt like I was "surrounded by duds" or that my worldview was being restricted by my choice. If anything, it was pretty eye-opening to meet people from so many different backgrounds. Sure we had some dumb-as-rocks students. We had some people who never showed up to class and could not have cared less. But we had some really bright, motivated people there for various reasons.

yea but over time that problem will correct itself as all smart people become rich.

[Hipster but Athletic]

Ok fair enough. But still, if you were constantly surrounded by duds, I think it might significantly restrict your worldview without necessarily impacting your ability to do well on the LSATs and then write a decent torts exam. I think you're giving too much weight to eight law exams for predicting intellectual ability.

Yeah, and going to exclusively elite schools doesn't restrict your worldview at all.

bc spending too much time around smart people makes you forget about idiots? Oh what a shame!

One element of this equation that you aren't addressing is money. Lots of smart people wind up in less-prestigious undergrad institutions because mom and dad can't pay for you to go to Princeton.

While we're talking anecdote-ally- I had 4.0 in high school, top SAT scores, honors track etc. Out of my peers, the kids with family money tended to go to top undergrad universities. Those of us without it tended to take the free-ride deal at less prestigious universities.

I went that route, and I'm glad I did. I can't imagine being strapped with undergrad debt on top of the debt I'll be taking out for law school. I did well in undergrad and made every effort to seek out the best professors that I could from within my university, and I never felt like I was "surrounded by duds" or that my worldview was being restricted by my choice. If anything, it was pretty eye-opening to meet people from so many different backgrounds. Sure we had some dumb-as-rocks students. We had some people who never showed up to class and could not have cared less. But we had some really bright, motivated people there for various reasons.

I'm not overlooking money at all. You get that rich kids are generally raised with better manners, exposed to more art, hang around smarter people with more interesting stories, and are more comfortable in the corporate environment? Seriously, plenty of very "bright" people show up as guests to country clubs wearing cargo shorts.
Test scores, motivation, etc, is probably the most important thing....but in looking at "softs", if I'm hiring somebody after only meeting them for a day or so and looking at their resume, all else being equal, I'll take the guy/girl from the good family. And college is definitely a good way to gauge family.

[A. Nony Mouse]

It so isn't.

[Hipster but Athletic]

Would you say that a white dude from Dartmouth has above or below a 60% chance of having travelled to Europe with his family for vacation?

[jbagelboy]

"College is a good gauge of family"?? what? There are so many problems with that posters' statements, I can't even begin. Most wealthy families are horrible, it's all affairs, divorce, bulimia, horse shit and cocaine. MANNERS? Lol, what? You mean cotillion/debutance? It's an incestuous doped up facade (speaking as someone whose close friends/sister went through "the system"). You think the kid at Princeton has better family values because a great grandparent owned a means of production? Or their dad was an oncologist?

This is really a lot to take, even from TLS. People have such absurd delusions about american class consciousness. From whence does this naïveté even originate? What is the genesis of this bullshit mountain? Is it just impressions from Television and media? I can't even

Might have to hiatus

[Hipster but Athletic]

"College is a good gauge of family"?? what? There are so many problems with that posters' statements, I can't even begin. Most wealthy families are horrible, it's all affairs, divorce, bulimia, horse shit and cocaine. MANNERS? Lol, what? You mean cotillion/debutance? It's an incestuous doped up facade (speaking as someone whose close friends/sister went through "the system"). You think the kid at Princeton has better family values because a great grandparent owned a means of production? Or their dad was an oncologist?

This is really a lot to take, even from TLS. People have such absurd delusions about american class consciousness. From whence does this naïveté even originate? What is the genesis of this bullshit mountain? Is it just impressions from Television and media? I can't even

Might have to hiatus

No, TLS as a whole actually agrees with you, because for the most part, TLS likes to point fingers and be jealous, I think. The problems you cite (drug use, divorce, body image issues) are not unique to the affluent. What is generally unique however is exposure to intelligent, successful, and cultured people from an early age. If you can't see that having CFOs instead of bartenders as neighbors, you my friend are the delusional one.

[sublime]

..

[A. Nony Mouse]

Being lax, no, he probably isn't serious, but it's still annoying that he spews this bullshit.

[jbagelboy]

Would you say that a white dude from Dartmouth has above or below a 60% chance of having travelled to Europe with his family for vacation?

LOL you think the summer vacay to roussison for the summer added "manners" and good breeding? You think the shitfest at the vienna kunsthistoriches museum promoted family values? When your 16 yr old kid loses their virginity in Barcelona to a 31-year old part time music teacher, will that strengthen their domestic credentials? Do you know what you are talking about?

What about "traveling to Europe" makes a family more well bred/cultured, other than by mere appearance?

[sublime]

..

[brotherdarkness]

.

[Hipster but Athletic]

It's literally insane to be on the opposite side of me. That means you're arguing a medley of the following:
(a) poor families have an equal if not less chance of being dysfunctional as wealthier ones;
(b) test scores and most recent school's reputation are all that should matter for hiring; and
(c) the externalities associated with having access, while growing up, to travel, art, successful neighbors, successful friends, healthy food, and better education are negligible because they're completely internalized into law school grades and also are unimportant for corporate success.

[Hipster but Athletic]

It's pretty commonly accepted that employers look for people who remind them of themselves when hiring.

[Hipster but Athletic]

Would you say that a white dude from Dartmouth has above or below a 60% chance of having travelled to Europe with his family for vacation?

LOL you think the summer vacay to roussison for the summer added "manners" and good breeding? You think the shitfest at the vienna kunsthistoriches museum promoted family values? When your 16 yr old kid loses their virginity in Barcelona to a 31-year old part time music teacher, will that strengthen their domestic credentials? Do you know what you are talking about?

What about "traveling to Europe" makes a family more well bred/cultured, other than by mere appearance?

It's called a proxy. The traveling itself is a secondary concern. I'd call you an idiot, but this isn't in the lounge.

[sublime]

..

[A. Nony Mouse]

It's literally insane to be on the opposite side of me. That means you're arguing a medley of the following:
(a) poor families have an equal if not less chance of being dysfunctional as wealthier ones;
(b) test scores and most recent school's reputation are all that should matter for hiring; and
(c) the externalities associated with having access, while growing up, to travel, art, successful neighbors, successful friends, healthy food, and better education are negligible because they're completely internalized into law school grades and also are unimportant for corporate success.

Those externalities are negligible because you don't have to grow up in the Hamptons to get those things, nor does growing up with successful people around you automatically make you successful, nor does everyone define successful in the same narrow way that you do, and assuming that only people who grow up in the circumstances you list can be good corporate lawyers is incredibly narrow-minded.

Further, it's not an either-or - EITHER you only look at test scores/most recent law school OR you look for the Exeter-Princeton-educated rich guy/girl who's done all the things you (for some reason) think are limited to one narrow slice of society. There are plenty of other things to consider. Your proxies aren't very good.

And your "employers look for people who remind them of themselves" assumes that those who hire in biglaw are exclusively from your very narrowly-defined social class.

But yeah, I think brotherdarkness is right as to the original question. And it's not like there's anything anyone currently in law school can do about what anyone thinks about their UG.

[star fox]

It's literally insane to be on the opposite side of me. That means you're arguing a medley of the following:
(a) poor families have an equal if not less chance of being dysfunctional as wealthier ones;
(b) test scores and most recent school's reputation are all that should matter for hiring; and
(c) the externalities associated with having access, while growing up, to travel, art, successful neighbors, successful friends, healthy food, and better education are negligible because they're completely internalized into law school grades and also are unimportant for corporate success.

I for one am glad to bow down to our aristocratic overlords.

[Hipster but Athletic]

Ya I think we keep arguing past each other forgetting that everything in this thread is said in the context of why and whether undergrad reputation matters. It's certainly not an either or. But it's a very good soft both in reality, and I think in theory (in that I do believe it at the very least signals an increased chance of the having certain desirable attributes).