using your JD to work for the FBI ...

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TKO99
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby TKO99 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:04 am

dk8 wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:Most law students I know who consider this route are DQ-ed before they even apply in light of the strict drug use standards. If you have done any hard drugs or smoked pot more than 15 times, you are auto-dinged.


LOL at this stupidity. Upon the 16th occasion that you smoke pot, you are magically turned into a burned out, unethical drug fiend unworthy of any further consideration.

For the sake of our country, I really hope they aren't turning any Arab linguists away because they smoked weed 15.5 times. But given the irrational and arbitrary nature of our drug policies, it wouldn't suprise me at all.

(Not directed at you Patrick Bateman, I know you are just citing their policy)


I know! I think you get DQed for taking adderall (without a prescription) because it's considered an "illegal" drug because you didn't have a prescription for it. You can't apply to the Bureau until you have stopped doing so for 10 years (which is why I'm hesitant to take it). Anyways, that may mean turning down qualified applicants (that meet the Bureau's needs, i.e. those who are fluent in Arabic or Persian) because of some unrealistic policy, especially because they're taking it for academic purposes and not recreational purposes. Just my $0.02 on that since I remember reading somewhere that it's pretty popular among students at Ivy League institutions to take adderall, and I'm sure the Bureau would love to have some of those graduates work for them.

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Rainmaker11
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby Rainmaker11 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:58 pm

rabbit9198 wrote:I know the CIA (and, I think, the FBI?) do on-campus interviewing at a number of schools...so it's not impossible.


You do need a few years of work experience if you want to be a special agent. As a side note, the current Director of the FBI, Robert Mueller, is a UVA law grad.

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stab master arson
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby stab master arson » Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:00 pm

my interest in an FBI career faded after seeing the movie "Breach." the supervising agent lady's home life -- "i don't even have a cat" -- seemed depressing enough.

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dextermorgan
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby dextermorgan » Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:37 pm

I know I've seen a quote somewhere about thousands of armed accountants. I wonder if armed attorneys are more frightening.

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Pizon
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby Pizon » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:56 am

LjakW wrote:When you say colorblind, does that mean no color at all or just certain colors?


It took me a while to realize he meant it literally. At first I thought the FBI didn't want to hire him because of his refusal to racially profile.

SethD2767
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby SethD2767 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:47 am

TKO99 wrote:
dk8 wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:Most law students I know who consider this route are DQ-ed before they even apply in light of the strict drug use standards. If you have done any hard drugs or smoked pot more than 15 times, you are auto-dinged.


LOL at this stupidity. Upon the 16th occasion that you smoke pot, you are magically turned into a burned out, unethical drug fiend unworthy of any further consideration.

For the sake of our country, I really hope they aren't turning any Arab linguists away because they smoked weed 15.5 times. But given the irrational and arbitrary nature of our drug policies, it wouldn't suprise me at all.

(Not directed at you Patrick Bateman, I know you are just citing their policy)


I know! I think you get DQed for taking adderall (without a prescription) because it's considered an "illegal" drug because you didn't have a prescription for it. You can't apply to the Bureau until you have stopped doing so for 10 years (which is why I'm hesitant to take it). Anyways, that may mean turning down qualified applicants (that meet the Bureau's needs, i.e. those who are fluent in Arabic or Persian) because of some unrealistic policy, especially because they're taking it for academic purposes and not recreational purposes. Just my $0.02 on that since I remember reading somewhere that it's pretty popular among students at Ivy League institutions to take adderall, and I'm sure the Bureau would love to have some of those graduates work for them.


Does the FBI require that you undergo a polygraph test, like the CIA and NSA?

Fourttier
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby Fourttier » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:06 am

It is possible to beat a polygraph. I know someone who was completely guilty but was not detected by the polygraph. He said it was mind over matter.

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Bosque
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby Bosque » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:32 pm

Fourttier wrote:It is possible to beat a polygraph. I know someone who was completely guilty but was not detected by the polygraph. He said it was mind over matter.


Polygraphs are not hard to confuse, provided you have been trained in how to do it.

Plus, even when working properly, they only test if you BELIEVE what you are saying is true, not if it actually is.

And yes, I am sure they do.

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TKO99
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby TKO99 » Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:45 am

SethD2767 wrote:
TKO99 wrote:
dk8 wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:Most law students I know who consider this route are DQ-ed before they even apply in light of the strict drug use standards. If you have done any hard drugs or smoked pot more than 15 times, you are auto-dinged.


LOL at this stupidity. Upon the 16th occasion that you smoke pot, you are magically turned into a burned out, unethical drug fiend unworthy of any further consideration.

For the sake of our country, I really hope they aren't turning any Arab linguists away because they smoked weed 15.5 times. But given the irrational and arbitrary nature of our drug policies, it wouldn't suprise me at all.

(Not directed at you Patrick Bateman, I know you are just citing their policy)


I know! I think you get DQed for taking adderall (without a prescription) because it's considered an "illegal" drug because you didn't have a prescription for it. You can't apply to the Bureau until you have stopped doing so for 10 years (which is why I'm hesitant to take it). Anyways, that may mean turning down qualified applicants (that meet the Bureau's needs, i.e. those who are fluent in Arabic or Persian) because of some unrealistic policy, especially because they're taking it for academic purposes and not recreational purposes. Just my $0.02 on that since I remember reading somewhere that it's pretty popular among students at Ivy League institutions to take adderall, and I'm sure the Bureau would love to have some of those graduates work for them.


Does the FBI require that you undergo a polygraph test, like the CIA and NSA?


Yes! You will be polygraphed in order to obtain your security clearance. Be sure to disclose EVERYTHING that is asked about you... lying about financial woes is the number one criteria for failing the polygraph FYI.

Yeah, I agree. You can beat a polygraph, esp. if you are good at manipulating your body's responses. There are also ways to beat a drug test... but we're not talking about the DEA here lol (well, actually most agencies perform drug test). Oh yeah, one way to get into the DEA is to have a JD. Not sure if that's one of the main entry pathway for U.S. Marshalls...

hornets34
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby hornets34 » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:25 pm

If you lie on a polygraph about your past to FBI,CIA, etc, do they look further into it, or just deny the job opportunity/clearance? That would be terrible if you went in looking for a job and came out with an investigation into your past...

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Dick Whitman
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby Dick Whitman » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:31 pm

I was told be an FBI recruiter at an accounting conference a few years ago that they mainly hire agents with an accounting, law, or foreign language background. I was also told the pot-smoking maximum was four times.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby Patrick Bateman » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:26 pm

Dick Whitman wrote:I was told be an FBI recruiter at an accounting conference a few years ago that they mainly hire agents with an accounting, law, or foreign language background. I was also told the pot-smoking maximum was four times.


15 times.

"An applicant who has used marijuana within the past three years or more than a total of 15 times in one's life will be found unsuitable for employment."

http://www.fbi.gov/employment/policies.htm

ds22
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby ds22 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:57 pm

I'm very much interested in doing this.

I doubt this, but are there any stats on how many JD's straight out of school they hire, if any? I know someone else said it can be 2-3 years after graduating, but was curious if there was more to back that up?

Thinking of picking up this book for a read.
http://www.amazon.com/FBI-Careers-Ultim ... 099&sr=1-1

ds22
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby ds22 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:05 pm

Also, http://www.reuters.com/article/domestic ... 9520090105

FBI plans large hiring blitz of agents, experts
Mon Jan 5, 2009 5:15pm EST

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Wanted by the FBI: agents, language specialists, computer experts, intelligence analysts and finance experts.

The FBI said on Monday it had launched one of the largest hiring blitzes in its 100-year history involving 2,100 professional staff vacancies and 850 special agents aimed at filling its most critical vacancies.

The agency, which seeks to protect the United States from terrorist attack, fight crime and catch spies, among other duties, said it currently has more than 12,800 agents and about 18,400 other employees.

Since the Sept 11, 2001, attacks, the FBI has been criticized for not having enough employees fluent in foreign languages and for not moving fast enough to upgrade its computer system.

FBI Assistant Director John Raucci of the Human Resources division said the federal law enforcement agency is seeking to bring more people on board with skills in critical areas, especially language fluency and computer science.

"We're also looking for professionals in a wide variety of fields who have a deep desire to help protect our nation from terrorists, spies, and others who wish us harm," Raucci said.

He said the FBI, which has been investigating corporate wrongdoing in connection with the current financial crisis, also needs finance and accounting experts, along with those skilled in physical surveillance and various other employees.

The hiring initiative for FBI headquarters in Washington, D.C., and for its field offices would replace departed staff and add some employees, officials said. (Reporting by James Vicini, Editing by Jackie Frank)

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Cole S. Law
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby Cole S. Law » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:06 pm

I guess the real question is why you would want to spend 3 years of your life and 70K+ to get a job that pays 57K. Here's a much more direct and lucrative route. Join the Army. Given their manpower shortages (esp with people who can read) you can demand all kinds of FBIcentric training in your contract...languages, Criminal Investigations Division, cryptology, intelligence analysis, etc. After four years of getting paid, you'll have military experience, an in demand FBI skill, AND your student loans paid off. I'm in my final days in the Army. Everyday I hear about a buddy who's been hired by FBI, DHS, CIA, DIA. Food for thought.

ds22
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby ds22 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:28 pm

Cole S. Law wrote:I guess the real question is why you would want to spend 3 years of your life and 70K+ to get a job that pays 57K. Here's a much more direct and lucrative route. Join the Army. Given their manpower shortages (esp with people who can read) you can demand all kinds of FBIcentric training in your contract...languages, Criminal Investigations Division, cryptology, intelligence analysis, etc. After four years of getting paid, you'll have military experience, an in demand FBI skill, AND your student loans paid off. I'm in my final days in the Army. Everyday I hear about a buddy who's been hired by FBI, DHS, CIA, DIA. Food for thought.


I guess my response would be I'm not ready to face the possibility of being deployed?

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AR75
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby AR75 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:43 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:It can be a very long time between graduating law school and actually working as an FBI Agent. It does not seem uncommon for 2-3 years to be the start to finish time line in light of the several rounds of interviews, aptitude/personality tests, background checks, etc. This is to say nothing of your time at Quantico.

Most law students I know who consider this route are DQ-ed before they even apply in light of the strict drug use standards. If you have done any hard drugs or smoked pot more than 15 times, you are auto-dinged.


Winner. That's really the biggest hurdle for most college-age people. This is not an anti-drug rant, but it's a fact. The same goes for most law enforcement.
The major preclusion for employment is not lack of ability or intelligence, but it's crimes or acts involving moral turpitude or acts showing questionable character. See 4/20 thread, then refer back here to see why these things are important. :wink:

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AR75
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby AR75 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:50 pm

hornets34 wrote:If you lie on a polygraph about your past to FBI,CIA, etc, do they look further into it, or just deny the job opportunity/clearance? That would be terrible if you went in looking for a job and came out with an investigation into your past...


If you're caught lying, your chances are over. Completely. Also, if after lying on a poly, you test or apply at another federal agency, the background investigators will ask whether you've previously applied to another federal agency and to what level in the process you got. They also have a method of finding out other federal law enforcement employment applicants. Just not a good idea to lie. Period.

Likely as long as the information revealed in the background investigation is not criminal, they'll just forever cockblock you from employment. However, if you're dumb enough not to know what is chargeable against you before you go in looking for a job and then decide to disclose it, well just expect what could be coming. I'm not trying to be a jerk, it's just something that LE applications don't often think of.

FWIW, background investigations are EXTREMELY thorough--more thorough than you will likely ever be comfortable with. Depends on the investigator, but some backgrounders will really try and fuck with you, especially during the poly.

maloma
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Re: using your JD to work for the FBI ...

Postby maloma » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:45 pm

There are also positions with local and state agencies. For example, CHP has a general counsel. An agency like that might be an option for someone who can't get hired by the feds or who doesn't want to move every few years.




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