Post removed.

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
User avatar
MistakenGenius
Posts: 825
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:18 pm

Post removed.

Postby MistakenGenius » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:01 pm

Post removed.
Last edited by MistakenGenius on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22845
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:04 pm

Holy stereotypes, Batman.

frcarpen
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:08 pm

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby frcarpen » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:04 pm

Some of the most well known trial attorneys in the nation have come out of Harvard and Yale.

User avatar
MistakenGenius
Posts: 825
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:18 pm

Post removed.

Postby MistakenGenius » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:12 pm

Post removed.
Last edited by MistakenGenius on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11725
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby kalvano » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:14 pm

MistakenGenius wrote:I believe that more lawyers from T14 do clerical work


For some reason, this part bothered me the most.

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11725
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby kalvano » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:15 pm

Also, moot court is fun but not very useful.

User avatar
Pneumonia
Posts: 1644
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby Pneumonia » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:23 pm

MistakenGenius wrote:Obviously, I'm not trying to make stereotypes, just asking about generalities.

User avatar
2014
Posts: 5831
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby 2014 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:31 pm

T14s are filled with passive beta drones while TTTs are filled with alpha bros who are born and bred for conquering.

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby prezidentv8 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:35 pm

2014 wrote:T14s are filled with passive beta drones while TTTs are filled with alpha bros who are BORN and BRED for conquering SUCCESS and ACHIEVEMENT.


FTFY

arklaw13
Posts: 1704
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:36 pm

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby arklaw13 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:40 pm

Have you actually met a HYS lawyer or two? Or any lawyer for that matter?

User avatar
Amity
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:36 am

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby Amity » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:43 pm

Since we are generalizing. Of the LR cohorts I know only a couple chose to participate in moot court. Nice when I hear my school won but I do not read much into it. If the top students were all ordered to participate then I might buy into the notion that it could somehow be relevant.

User avatar
FlanAl
Posts: 1474
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:53 pm

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby FlanAl » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:55 pm

Doing moot court doesn't really seem like a "fratty" thing to do to me. I guess I'll call my self extroverted and I am also trying to do trial work when I graduate. I didn't do moot court or mock trial because they weren't going to help me get the job I wanted and looked like a lot of extra work. I think a lot of the trial oriented folks at t14s are also the types to not make extra work for themselves for no reason.

Also, I've heard it thrown around that the second tier schools are better but never really seen that backed up. Not saying it isn't true, just wondering what its based on.

I also think its kinda weird to talk about moot court and then talk about trial attorneys. I think that most of the great appellate lawyers have come from t14s which really doesn't make sense with the poor moot court showing. Mock trial would be another issue.

User avatar
2014
Posts: 5831
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby 2014 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:16 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:
2014 wrote:T14s are filled with passive beta drones while TTTs are filled with alpha bros who are BORN and BRED for conquering SUCCESS and ACHIEVEMENT.


FTFY

Alpha move of you, I respect that

User avatar
iamgeorgebush
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:57 pm

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby iamgeorgebush » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:00 am

This must be why Susman Godfrey hires only from third-tier schools.

Oh, wait... :roll:

User avatar
Tanicius
Posts: 2957
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:54 am

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby Tanicius » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:45 am

Students from T-14's have done quite well in the law school trial competitions.

- Top Gun.

- TYLA/NTC (LinkRemoved).

Honestly, it often comes down to whether or not some of the T-14 programs can convince their students that trial work is what they want to do. I've had a lot of friends that do the competitions and kill it, but they go on to become biglaw associates. Some of them have ended up transferring later on to a DA's office, while others will get particularly lucky and get picked up by a trial lit boutique or downtown personal injury firm, but most of them either choose PD/DA work right out of the gate or go into biglaw and stay there. Yeah, there are a lot of students who are nerdy and shy away from public speaking, but those students tend to do quite well in the jobs they choose, such as IP law or clerking. For all the others that excel at it, it's mostly a matter of self selection out of the field for opportunities they deem to be stabler or better paying.

This must be why Susman Godfrey hires only from third-tier schools.

Oh, wait... :roll:


Well, Susman Godfrey doesn't do much trial work. Neither do most of the other "trial" law firms like Keker or Quinn. More specifically, the associates they are hiring are not being hired for their trial skills, but for their research and writing skills, which are demonstrated by academic work and credentials, not trial experience or charisma. Those associates will be lucky to argue a prelim hearing by their fifth year. If they were being hired for their skills, then trust me -- those firms would *not* want to prioritize people who have clerked for courts of appeals.

If you want to see a more representative list of trial lawyer educational backgrounds, look up the members of prestigious trial organizations and the more infamous people in the DA/PD field. The vast majority of both groups do not hail from prestigious schools. Whether these numbers are proportional to the number of T-14s against the number of all law schools is anyone's guess, but mine would be that T-14 alums are underrepresented.

User avatar
Clearly
Posts: 4166
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby Clearly » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:54 am

Sometimes I really don't even understand why people reply to this stuff...

03152016
Posts: 9189
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby 03152016 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:55 pm

Makes sense to me, OP. Everyone knows T14 students lack charisma and social skills; that's why all the nationally known politicians attended Valpo/Cooley, and not Yale/Harvard.

User avatar
iamgeorgebush
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:57 pm

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby iamgeorgebush » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:58 pm

Tanicius wrote:Well, Susman Godfrey doesn't do much trial work. Neither do most of the other "trial" law firms like Keker or Quinn.

Source? Perhaps it's false advertising, but Susman's website refers to its attorneys as "trial lawyers" all the time: http://www.susmangodfrey.com/

Also, I don't know much about Keker, but I don't think Quinn is in the same category as Susman. Quinn is a BigLaw firm that, despite some notable work for plaintiffs, primarily does defense, while Susman is a boutique firm that does a lot more plaintiff's work. My impression is that Susman, as more of a plaintiff's firm, takes cases to trial a lot more than Quinn.

User avatar
2014
Posts: 5831
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby 2014 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:05 pm

Susman does plenty of trial work, especially comparatively. I'm sure his point was that the day to day very rarely involves trials which is true for every firm everywhere.

User avatar
midwest17
Posts: 1686
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:27 pm

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby midwest17 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:08 pm

Pneumonia wrote:
MistakenGenius wrote:Obviously, I'm not trying to make stereotypes, just asking about generalities.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby rad lulz » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:10 pm

m
Last edited by rad lulz on Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Tanicius
Posts: 2957
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:54 am

Re: Trial Attorneys from T14?

Postby Tanicius » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:41 pm

iamgeorgebush wrote:
Tanicius wrote:Well, Susman Godfrey doesn't do much trial work. Neither do most of the other "trial" law firms like Keker or Quinn.

Source? Perhaps it's false advertising, but Susman's website refers to its attorneys as "trial lawyers" all the time: http://www.susmangodfrey.com/


Yeah, lit boutiques do this all the time. Quinn's biggest ad shtick is its label as a firm of "Trial Lawyers" who "Win." It's true they win a lot, but the vast majority of those wins aren't jury trial verdicts.

Also, I don't know much about Keker, but I don't think Quinn is in the same category as Susman. Quinn is a BigLaw firm that, despite some notable work for plaintiffs, primarily does defense, while Susman is a boutique firm that does a lot more plaintiff's work. My impression is that Susman, as more of a plaintiff's firm, takes cases to trial a lot more than Quinn.


Most of Susman's work is in antitrust and class action. Those cases only rarely involve a jury. They handle multi-hundred-million-dollar claims that are primarily won and lost on discovery, pretrial motions and appeals. They win because of the brains and resources for endless legal research, not because their people are amazing oral advocates. I'm sure they poach a handful of litigators now and then who have made names for themselves arguing appeals for other firms or trying cases as a district attorney, but trials themselves are still less than 1% of the actual work that they do, person-for-person and hour-for-hour.

Most trial work is done by DA/PDs and small one-person shops defending crimes, representing divorce clients, and suing drivers/insurance companies/employers. The skills people need to do those jobs are not gained taking law exams, working on law review, or doing the other kinds of things the top T-14 people do to secure jobs at firms or clerkships. Student-for-student, there are definitely more capable trial advocates at a school like Baylor or Temple than there are at Northwestern or Penn.




Return to “Law School FAQ”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest