question about my gpa

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berkeleybear1
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question about my gpa

Postby berkeleybear1 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:46 pm

I graduated from UC Berkeley w/ a B.S. in Business Administration from the Haas School of Business. My LSDAS GPA is a 3.5.

While I have a respectable GPA from a top institution, my GPA falls in the 25% percentile of most top 20 law schools.

Haas is a very competitive business school and like most top business schools there is a curve (5% get A's, 10% get A-, 15% get B+....etc).

I've had people tell me that law schools don't care what undergrad institution you go to..all that matters is a high GPA and good/high LSAT score.

How does my GPA stack up against say someone who attended UC Berkeley but had a much easier major say for example Pysch or Sociology and had a 3.8 GPA, or someone who attended a State School and got a 4.0? Assuming that all of us had the same LSAT score.

Will admissions cut me some slack given the institution that I attended, or do they only care about raw numbers? I'm hoping it's the former as opposed to the latter.





I have a few friends who applied to law school from UC Berkeley but were Sociology majors, Social Welfare majors, Psych majors from UC Berkeley. They had GPAs in the 3.7-3.9 range. While a 3.8 GPA is impressive, their

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rinkrat19
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:53 pm

It may act as a tiebreaker between you and another Berk grad with identical GPA and an easier major. However, the Berkeley math/engineering major with a 3.5 probably gets the tiebreak over you.

Graduating from Berkeley may be a tiebreaker between you and someone graduating from Podunk State with a biz admin degree, assuming identical GPAs. But the Podunk State engineer and you might be evenly matched.

The effects are small, if present at all. Just going to Berkeley and majoring in BA won't make your GPA look any higher.

berkeleybear1
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby berkeleybear1 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:03 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:It may act as a tiebreaker between you and another Berk grad with identical GPA and an easier major. However, the Berkeley math/engineering major with a 3.5 probably gets the tiebreak over you.

Graduating from Berkeley may be a tiebreaker between you and someone graduating from Podunk State with a biz admin degree, assuming identical GPAs. But the Podunk State engineer and you might be evenly matched.

The effects are small, if present at all. Just going to Berkeley and majoring in BA won't make your GPA look any higher.


Well yeah, for example i think the average GPA for a UC Berkeley engineering major is a 2.7? I know its in the 2.0's for sure. Probably around the same for math. I could see a 3.5 GPA in Engineering or Math beating me out, but I just can't see how a 3.8 GPA in either Sociology, Pysch, Social Welfare or History beating me out.

Engineering and Business are among the most competitive majors at UC Berkeley. Not only do we have to deal with a curve, but most people in Haas are competing for jobs in investment banking, and only a select few get jobs in IB.

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rinkrat19
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:08 pm

berkeleybear1 wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:It may act as a tiebreaker between you and another Berk grad with identical GPA and an easier major. However, the Berkeley math/engineering major with a 3.5 probably gets the tiebreak over you.

Graduating from Berkeley may be a tiebreaker between you and someone graduating from Podunk State with a biz admin degree, assuming identical GPAs. But the Podunk State engineer and you might be evenly matched.

The effects are small, if present at all. Just going to Berkeley and majoring in BA won't make your GPA look any higher.


Well yeah, for example i think the average GPA for a UC Berkeley engineering major is a 2.7? I know its in the 2.0's for sure. Probably around the same for math. I could see a 3.5 GPA in Engineering or Math beating me out, but I just can't see how a 3.8 GPA in either Sociology, Pysch, Social Welfare or History beating me out.

Engineering and Business are among the most competitive majors at UC Berkeley. Not only do we have to deal with a curve, but most people in Haas are competing for jobs in investment banking, and only a select few get jobs in IB.

Schools don't get to put an asterisk by the median GPA they report to USNWR for rankings calculations that says "but we have lots of business majors from berkeley!!"

All other factors assumed equal, a 3.8 in basketweaving from podunk state school would beat your 3.5, because they help the school's medians and you hurt them. That's just the way it is. If the difference were 0.05, maybe you win.

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DrStudMuffin
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby DrStudMuffin » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:15 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
berkeleybear1 wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:It may act as a tiebreaker between you and another Berk grad with identical GPA and an easier major. However, the Berkeley math/engineering major with a 3.5 probably gets the tiebreak over you.

Graduating from Berkeley may be a tiebreaker between you and someone graduating from Podunk State with a biz admin degree, assuming identical GPAs. But the Podunk State engineer and you might be evenly matched.

The effects are small, if present at all. Just going to Berkeley and majoring in BA won't make your GPA look any higher.


Well yeah, for example i think the average GPA for a UC Berkeley engineering major is a 2.7? I know its in the 2.0's for sure. Probably around the same for math. I could see a 3.5 GPA in Engineering or Math beating me out, but I just can't see how a 3.8 GPA in either Sociology, Pysch, Social Welfare or History beating me out.

Engineering and Business are among the most competitive majors at UC Berkeley. Not only do we have to deal with a curve, but most people in Haas are competing for jobs in investment banking, and only a select few get jobs in IB.

Schools don't get to put an asterisk by the median GPA they report to USNWR for rankings calculations that says "but we have lots of business majors from berkeley!!"

All other factors assumed equal, a 3.8 in basketweaving from podunk state school would beat your 3.5, because they help the school's medians and you hurt them. That's just the way it is. If the difference were 0.05, maybe you win.


Business administration isn't exactly regarded as the most difficult major of all time. There are plenty of hard science/engineering students at even better schools that have much more legitimate gripes.

berkeleybear1
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby berkeleybear1 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:28 pm

DrStudMuffin wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
berkeleybear1 wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:It may act as a tiebreaker between you and another Berk grad with identical GPA and an easier major. However, the Berkeley math/engineering major with a 3.5 probably gets the tiebreak over you.

Graduating from Berkeley may be a tiebreaker between you and someone graduating from Podunk State with a biz admin degree, assuming identical GPAs. But the Podunk State engineer and you might be evenly matched.

The effects are small, if present at all. Just going to Berkeley and majoring in BA won't make your GPA look any higher.


Well yeah, for example i think the average GPA for a UC Berkeley engineering major is a 2.7? I know its in the 2.0's for sure. Probably around the same for math. I could see a 3.5 GPA in Engineering or Math beating me out, but I just can't see how a 3.8 GPA in either Sociology, Pysch, Social Welfare or History beating me out.

Engineering and Business are among the most competitive majors at UC Berkeley. Not only do we have to deal with a curve, but most people in Haas are competing for jobs in investment banking, and only a select few get jobs in IB.

Schools don't get to put an asterisk by the median GPA they report to USNWR for rankings calculations that says "but we have lots of business majors from berkeley!!"

All other factors assumed equal, a 3.8 in basketweaving from podunk state school would beat your 3.5, because they help the school's medians and you hurt them. That's just the way it is. If the difference were 0.05, maybe you win.


Business administration isn't exactly regarded as the most difficult major of all time. There are plenty of hard science/engineering students at even better schools that have much more legitimate gripes.


The subject of Business at UC Berkeley itself isn't difficult. The Haas curve is what makes it difficult, which is what i'm trying to get at, as that affects one GPA. Look at it like this: you have 50 smart and intelligent people in let's say an accounting class at UC Berkeley. Only 5 people in that class are going to get an A. The curve is a killer at Haas, not necessarily the course material or amount of work that needs to be done in a business class. But all that matters at the end of the day is your GPA, and Haas makes you really work for your grade. The same can't be said about majors such as Sociology, English, History, Psychology, Social Welfare and etc

berkeleybear1
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby berkeleybear1 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:30 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
berkeleybear1 wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:It may act as a tiebreaker between you and another Berk grad with identical GPA and an easier major. However, the Berkeley math/engineering major with a 3.5 probably gets the tiebreak over you.

Graduating from Berkeley may be a tiebreaker between you and someone graduating from Podunk State with a biz admin degree, assuming identical GPAs. But the Podunk State engineer and you might be evenly matched.

The effects are small, if present at all. Just going to Berkeley and majoring in BA won't make your GPA look any higher.


Well yeah, for example i think the average GPA for a UC Berkeley engineering major is a 2.7? I know its in the 2.0's for sure. Probably around the same for math. I could see a 3.5 GPA in Engineering or Math beating me out, but I just can't see how a 3.8 GPA in either Sociology, Pysch, Social Welfare or History beating me out.

Engineering and Business are among the most competitive majors at UC Berkeley. Not only do we have to deal with a curve, but most people in Haas are competing for jobs in investment banking, and only a select few get jobs in IB.

Schools don't get to put an asterisk by the median GPA they report to USNWR for rankings calculations that says "but we have lots of business majors from berkeley!!"

All other factors assumed equal, a 3.8 in basketweaving from podunk state school would beat your 3.5, because they help the school's medians and you hurt them. That's just the way it is. If the difference were 0.05, maybe you win.


this shit pisses me off. i should have been a social welfare major lol

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xylocarp
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby xylocarp » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:34 pm

berkeleybear1 wrote:I just can't see how a 3.8 GPA in either Sociology, Pysch, Social Welfare or History beating me out.

The 3.8 is going to beat out the 3.5 every time, regardless of anything else that may factor in (e.g. major, school, upward/downward trends). It sucks for some people and helps out others, but regardless, that's just how it is, so there's really no use in griping about it (not that I don't understand the complaint).

berkeleybear1
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby berkeleybear1 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:46 pm

xylocarp wrote:
berkeleybear1 wrote:I just can't see how a 3.8 GPA in either Sociology, Pysch, Social Welfare or History beating me out.

The 3.8 is going to beat out the 3.5 every time, regardless of anything else that may factor in (e.g. major, school, upward/downward trends). It sucks for some people and helps out others, but regardless, that's just how it is, so there's really no use in griping about it (not that I don't understand the complaint).


looks like i'm screwed haha

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wiz
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby wiz » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:52 pm

berkeleybear1 wrote:
xylocarp wrote:
berkeleybear1 wrote:I just can't see how a 3.8 GPA in either Sociology, Pysch, Social Welfare or History beating me out.

The 3.8 is going to beat out the 3.5 every time, regardless of anything else that may factor in (e.g. major, school, upward/downward trends). It sucks for some people and helps out others, but regardless, that's just how it is, so there's really no use in griping about it (not that I don't understand the complaint).


looks like i'm screwed haha


If by screwed, you mean no HYS, then yeah, you're probs screwed. But any other school is still attainable with a high LSAT score.

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DrStudMuffin
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby DrStudMuffin » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:12 pm

wiz wrote:
berkeleybear1 wrote:
xylocarp wrote:
berkeleybear1 wrote:I just can't see how a 3.8 GPA in either Sociology, Pysch, Social Welfare or History beating me out.

The 3.8 is going to beat out the 3.5 every time, regardless of anything else that may factor in (e.g. major, school, upward/downward trends). It sucks for some people and helps out others, but regardless, that's just how it is, so there's really no use in griping about it (not that I don't understand the complaint).


looks like i'm screwed haha


If by screwed, you mean no HYS, then yeah, you're probs screwed. But any other school is still attainable with a high LSAT score.


This is accurate. All is not lost.

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midwest17
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby midwest17 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:28 pm

berkeleybear1 wrote:How does my GPA stack up against say someone who attended UC Berkeley but had a much easier major say for example Pysch or Sociology and had a 3.8 GPA, or someone who attended a State School and got a 4.0? Assuming that all of us had the same LSAT score.


I love when people say things like this.

Also, you know that Berkeley is a state school, right?

Void
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby Void » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:57 pm

Look at it like a business.

Law school admissions committees trade acceptances for numbers that will improve their USNWR ranking. That's it. So the kid with the same (or possibly even worse) LSAT score than you will be picked instead of you as long as he has a higher GPA. USNWR doesn't care how incoming students get their GPA, so neither do law schools. 3.8 in communications from a community college in Nebraska beats your 3.5 from Berkeley every day of the week.

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wowhio
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby wowhio » Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:43 pm

midwest17 wrote:
Also, you know that Berkeley is a state school, right?


The claws come out.

dosto
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby dosto » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:48 pm

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Last edited by dosto on Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jordan15
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby jordan15 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:56 am

What kind of trolling is this. The hardest part of Haas is getting in. The actual classes are easy. LMAO at Haas students thinking their classes are just as difficult as engineering. Just because you have to wear a suit to class doesn't mean your classes are harder than L&S. All of those other majors that you named grade on a curve too and sometimes it's even more harsh than the curve you just described.

If it makes you feel better, your major + any work experience/connections I'm sure you have from your time in HAAS are probably going to make your overall application look much stronger than all of the other majors. Your interview skillz and resume will make you stand out against other 3.5s.

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redsox
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby redsox » Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:07 am

midwest17 wrote:
berkeleybear1 wrote:How does my GPA stack up against say someone who attended UC Berkeley but had a much easier major say for example Pysch or Sociology and had a 3.8 GPA, or someone who attended a State School and got a 4.0? Assuming that all of us had the same LSAT score.


I love when people say things like this.

Also, you know that Berkeley is a state school, right?


And that business is a joke major, right?

berkeleybear1
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby berkeleybear1 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:56 am

jordan15 wrote:What kind of trolling is this. The hardest part of Haas is getting in. The actual classes are easy. LMAO at Haas students thinking their classes are just as difficult as engineering. Just because you have to wear a suit to class doesn't mean your classes are harder than L&S. All of those other majors that you named grade on a curve too and sometimes it's even more harsh than the curve you just described.

If it makes you feel better, your major + any work experience/connections I'm sure you have from your time in HAAS are probably going to make your overall application look much stronger than all of the other majors. Your interview skillz and resume will make you stand out against other 3.5s.


like i said previously, i understand engineering majors have to deal with a much tougher curve than Haas students (at Berkeley at least)...i think the average GPA for an Engineering Major at Berkeley is a 2.7?

other majors such as Sociology, Pysch, History, Poli Sci, Social Welfare, Legal Studies etc. don't have to deal with a curve. the course material isn't what makes Haas "difficult" it's the Haas curve that does.

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redsox
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby redsox » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:20 pm

berkeleybear1 wrote:the course material isn't what makes Haas "difficult" it's the Haas curve that does.


Yeah but you're being curved against...other business students. How hard can it be?

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Lwoods
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby Lwoods » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:48 pm

midwest17 wrote:
berkeleybear1 wrote:How does my GPA stack up against say someone who attended UC Berkeley but had a much easier major say for example Pysch or Sociology and had a 3.8 GPA, or someone who attended a State School and got a 4.0? Assuming that all of us had the same LSAT score.


I love when people say things like this.

Also, you know that Berkeley is a state school, right?


To Californians, "State School"=CSUs. To the rest of the country, "state school"=public school (or schools where one can get "in-state" tuition).

O/P, you have a few options here:

Kill the LSAT and go to law school
Get a finance job
Get an entry-level job at a company in an industry that interests you
Get a job doing anything you like

It may seem unjust now that your remarkable 3.5 from Berkeley Haas won't help you in law school admissions, but if it's truly remarkable, then you should become the guy who hires the lawyer instead of the lawyer.

If you love law, a little time off and experience will only help you, not just with getting into law school but with being hired later on (first by a firm, then by clients).

PS Don't discount the abilities of state school grads. Many may surprise you.

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thewaves
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby thewaves » Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:59 pm

Lwoods wrote:
midwest17 wrote:
berkeleybear1 wrote:How does my GPA stack up against say someone who attended UC Berkeley but had a much easier major say for example Pysch or Sociology and had a 3.8 GPA, or someone who attended a State School and got a 4.0? Assuming that all of us had the same LSAT score.


I love when people say things like this.

Also, you know that Berkeley is a state school, right?


To Californians, "State School"=CSUs. To the rest of the country, "state school"=public school (or schools where one can get "in-state" tuition).

O/P, you have a few options here:

Kill the LSAT and go to law school
Get a finance job
Get an entry-level job at a company in an industry that interests you
Get a job doing anything you like

It may seem unjust now that your remarkable 3.5 from Berkeley Haas won't help you in law school admissions, but if it's truly remarkable, then you should become the guy who hires the lawyer instead of the lawyer.

If you love law, a little time off and experience will only help you, not just with getting into law school but with being hired later on (first by a firm, then by clients).

PS Don't discount the abilities of state school grads. Many may surprise you.


+1 to everything in this post (especially getting a job outside of law)

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jordan15
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Re: question about my gpa

Postby jordan15 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:00 pm

berkeleybear1 wrote:
jordan15 wrote:What kind of trolling is this. The hardest part of Haas is getting in. The actual classes are easy. LMAO at Haas students thinking their classes are just as difficult as engineering. Just because you have to wear a suit to class doesn't mean your classes are harder than L&S. All of those other majors that you named grade on a curve too and sometimes it's even more harsh than the curve you just described.

If it makes you feel better, your major + any work experience/connections I'm sure you have from your time in HAAS are probably going to make your overall application look much stronger than all of the other majors. Your interview skillz and resume will make you stand out against other 3.5s.


like i said previously, i understand engineering majors have to deal with a much tougher curve than Haas students (at Berkeley at least)...i think the average GPA for an Engineering Major at Berkeley is a 2.7?

other majors such as Sociology, Pysch, History, Poli Sci, Social Welfare, Legal Studies etc. don't have to deal with a curve. the course material isn't what makes Haas "difficult" it's the Haas curve that does.


These are also on a curve. Try again.

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Re: question about my gpa

Postby jmjm » Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:19 pm

berkeleybear1 wrote:
jordan15 wrote:All of those other majors that you named grade on a curve too and sometimes it's even more harsh than the curve you just described.
Your interview skillz and resume will make you stand out against other 3.5s.


like i said previously, i understand engineering majors have to deal with a much tougher curve than Haas students (at Berkeley at least)...i think the average GPA for an Engineering Major at Berkeley is a 2.7?

OP's point is related to Berkeley's uniqueness among top engineering/business colleges. It's engineering grades especially are curved harder due to less grade inflation than comparable private colleges. Many private and ivy colleges have grade inflation due to their higher interest in positioning their graduates for success. That results in a graduating class with higher gpa than schools such as berkeley.

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