Black Student. Need Help.

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sinfiery
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby sinfiery » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:53 am

AaronCarter wrote:
As others have said, he wasn't being racist at all. He was trying to be helpful, since he knows that AA applicants receive big boosts in LS admissions and is also aware that this might not continue to be the case. However, he's incorrect in thinking that the timing of the LSAT within a given cycle will have any implications for the URM boost you'll receive.



Why?

From this thread and from research I have done, there appears to be a definite "bump" for students of color.
Due to the case which the court granted cert (Schuette v. Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action) and the conservative leanings of the court, Affirmative Action seems to be on the way out.

With my pitiful 3.3ish crap GPA, my best shot at trying to gain elite access into elite schools appears to hinge on graduating early and applying before the court strikes down the practice.

What do you all think?


Berkeley is not allowed to use affirmative action for law school admissions. The URM bump still exists, if not moreso than at other T14 schools. Focus on getting a good GPA and don't apply until you have a good LSAT.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby ScottRiqui » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:56 am

JamMasterJ wrote:
AaronCarter wrote:
As others have said, he wasn't being racist at all. He was trying to be helpful, since he knows that AA applicants receive big boosts in LS admissions and is also aware that this might not continue to be the case. However, he's incorrect in thinking that the timing of the LSAT within a given cycle will have any implications for the URM boost you'll receive.



Why?

From this thread and from research I have done, there appears to be a definite "bump" for students of color.
Due to the case which the court granted cert (Schuette v. Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action) and the conservative leanings of the court, Affirmative Action seems to be on the way out.

With my pitiful 3.3ish crap GPA, my best shot at trying to gain elite access into elite schools appears to hinge on graduating early and applying before the court strikes down the practice.

What do you all think?

the timing is irrelevant. Not the boost.


Exactly. OP, I wouldn't worry about it. The only way you could "miss the boat" would be if this case actually does eliminate affirmative action from law school admissions, AND manages to do it in the next 15-18 months. Not likely.

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mehiguess
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby mehiguess » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:03 pm

Huey Freeman wrote:Also, I don't think you should report your professor or anything. It's a well known fact that black applicants get a significant boost (8-10 pts on the LSAT roughly) in law school admissions, and there is a supreme court case that could alter that. The guy was just looking out for your best interests, even if he was a little wrong.


Are you kidding?? The URM boost is nowhere close to 8-10 points. That's asinine, I would be in Yale tomorrow if I got that big a boost. Realistically it's in the neighborhood of 2 maybe 4 points. Each extra point can be another grand in scholarship money or admission to a higher tier school. They're certainly not just giving those points away.

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twenty
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby twenty » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:12 pm

mehiguess wrote:Are you kidding?? The URM boost is nowhere close to 8-10 points. That's asinine, I would be in Yale tomorrow if I got that big a boost. Realistically it's in the neighborhood of 2 maybe 4 points. Each extra point can be another grand in scholarship money or admission to a higher tier school. They're certainly not just giving those points away.


Putting it in terms of "worth this many points" does fundamentally misunderstand how URM admissions works, but ignoring that, it's quite a bit more than 2-4 LSAT points. MAs are typically a lock at HYS with a good GPA and a 169, and AAs are usually a lock at HYS with a good GPA and a 166-167 or so. Usually both can get into HYS with 2-3 points lower than that.

Also... what? How is that even remotely relevant to his comment?

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Typhoon24
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby Typhoon24 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:15 pm

mehiguess wrote:
Huey Freeman wrote:Also, I don't think you should report your professor or anything. It's a well known fact that black applicants get a significant boost (8-10 pts on the LSAT roughly) in law school admissions, and there is a supreme court case that could alter that. The guy was just looking out for your best interests, even if he was a little wrong.


Are you kidding?? The URM boost is nowhere close to 8-10 points. That's asinine, I would be in Yale tomorrow if I got that big a boost. Realistically it's in the neighborhood of 2 maybe 4 points. Each extra point can be another grand in scholarship money or admission to a higher tier school. They're certainly not just giving those points away.


Actually elterrible78 has a blog out (admissionsbythenumbers) where he breaks down admissions statistics and he has found that the urm boost for t14 schools is usually between 8 and 9 points. It is important to note that He bases it on lsn so the numbers are self-reported, but the numbers are fairly consistent.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:31 pm

AaronCarter wrote:btw, i'm thinking about going to DePaul for law school.


Don't do that.

AaronCarter
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby AaronCarter » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:41 pm

The consensus here has definitely thrown me off a bit.

If I'm understanding correctly, it is better to hold off on a the test and shoot for a 170+ even if that may mean waiting until Feb/June. (though I think i could pull a 165 now).

The reason for this is b/c even if the justices overturn the policy, law schools across the nation will willingly break the law for a year or so afterwards.

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but it seems a bit odd (even taking into account the Berkley example).

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby ScottRiqui » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:02 pm

AaronCarter wrote:The consensus here has definitely thrown me off a bit.

If I'm understanding correctly, it is better to hold off on a the test and shoot for a 170+ even if that may mean waiting until Feb/June. (though I think i could pull a 165 now).

The reason for this is b/c even if the justices overturn the policy, law schools across the nation will willingly break the law for a year or so afterwards.

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but it seems a bit odd (even taking into account the Berkley example).


First, can you confirm that you'd be able to graduate with your bachelor's in time to start law school by the Fall of 2014? You said in your first post that you're a junior, but I didn't know if you could compress your timeline enough to graduate that early.

Second, you said that you wanted to go to DePaul, which is a private school. Do we know if any potential decision from SCOTUS will even affect admissions at private schools?

My gut feeling is that unless SCOTUS comes back with a decision that unambiguously bans any consideration of race at all, there will still be a racial component to the admissions process; schools will still be under societal pressure to maintain/increase diversity, and there's enough subjectivity in the admissions process for them to be able to continue to give some kind of boost without it being explicit.

AaronCarter
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby AaronCarter » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:07 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:
AaronCarter wrote:The consensus here has definitely thrown me off a bit.

If I'm understanding correctly, it is better to hold off on a the test and shoot for a 170+ even if that may mean waiting until Feb/June. (though I think i could pull a 165 now).

The reason for this is b/c even if the justices overturn the policy, law schools across the nation will willingly break the law for a year or so afterwards.

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but it seems a bit odd (even taking into account the Berkley example).


First, can you confirm that you'd be able to graduate with your bachelor's in time to start law school by the Fall of 2014? You said in your first post that you're a junior, but I didn't know if you could compress your timeline enough to graduate that early.

Second, you said that you wanted to go to DePaul, which is a private school. Do we know if any potential decision from SCOTUS will even affect admissions at private schools?

My gut feeling is that unless SCOTUS comes back with a decision that unambiguously bans any consideration of race at all, there will still be a racial component to the admissions process; schools will still be under societal pressure to maintain/increase diversity, and there's enough subjectivity in the admissions process for them to be able to continue to give some kind of boost without it being explicit.



1) It will be tough/terrible next semester, but doable. I can graduate and be ready for the fall.
2) Since private schools still receive various types of federal funding, I'm assuming they wold be affected.

3) "My gut feeling" . I know that's all we have right now, but i'm just assuming Clarence Thomas gets his way.

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twenty
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby twenty » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:14 pm

Yeah, if law schools actually got rid of affirmative action there would be about 30 AAs in all of T-14. That's never going to happen.
Last edited by twenty on Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:14 pm

AaronCarter wrote:3) "My gut feeling" . I know that's all we have right now


Well, we have last time.

Anthony Kennedy wrote:Thus, under Grutter, strict scrutiny must be applied to any admissions program using racial categories or classifications.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby ScottRiqui » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:22 pm

AaronCarter wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:
AaronCarter wrote:The consensus here has definitely thrown me off a bit.

If I'm understanding correctly, it is better to hold off on a the test and shoot for a 170+ even if that may mean waiting until Feb/June. (though I think i could pull a 165 now).

The reason for this is b/c even if the justices overturn the policy, law schools across the nation will willingly break the law for a year or so afterwards.

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but it seems a bit odd (even taking into account the Berkley example).


First, can you confirm that you'd be able to graduate with your bachelor's in time to start law school by the Fall of 2014? You said in your first post that you're a junior, but I didn't know if you could compress your timeline enough to graduate that early.

Second, you said that you wanted to go to DePaul, which is a private school. Do we know if any potential decision from SCOTUS will even affect admissions at private schools?

My gut feeling is that unless SCOTUS comes back with a decision that unambiguously bans any consideration of race at all, there will still be a racial component to the admissions process; schools will still be under societal pressure to maintain/increase diversity, and there's enough subjectivity in the admissions process for them to be able to continue to give some kind of boost without it being explicit.



1) It will be tough/terrible next semester, but doable. I can graduate and be ready for the fall.
2) Since private schools still receive various types of federal funding, I'm assuming they wold be affected.

3) "My gut feeling" . I know that's all we have right now, but i'm just assuming Clarence Thomas gets his way.


Here's the description of the issue in Schuette v. Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action on SCOTUSblog:

"Whether a state violates the Equal Protection Clause by amending its constitution to prohibit race- and sex-based discrimination or preferential treatment in public-university admissions decisions. (Kagan, J., recused.)"

So it sounds like they'll just be deciding whether states will be allowed to ban preferential treatment at public universities via a constitutional amendment. So the worst possible situation for you in particular would be:

1) SCOTUS decides that it's okay for states to ban preferential treatment via a constitutional amendment,
2) You want to go to a public university,
3) The state where your school of choice is located actually decides to try to ban preferential treatment via a change to their constitution,
4) They're successful in amending their constitution, and the state schools take a hard-line approach about following the new restrictions, and
5) It all comes to pass quickly enough for it to matter for applicants in next cycle.

Frankly, I'd say things look pretty good for you.

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midwest17
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby midwest17 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:48 pm

Banning affirmative action at private schools that accept federal funding, if it would even be legal, would require legislative action.

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laxbrah420
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby laxbrah420 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:52 pm

"TLS: Where when we can't answer your questions, we tell you your questions suck"

thsmthcrmnl
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby thsmthcrmnl » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:01 pm

midwest17 wrote:Banning affirmative action at private schools that accept federal funding, if it would even be legal, would require legislative action.


Debatable. Depends on Title VI and Bakke.

Korematsu
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby Korematsu » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:14 pm

This Supreme Court is so fickle and unpredicable that I wouldn't base my life plans on anticipating any ruling from them.

I would encourage you to take the test in December since applications are down the toilet because everyone is scared of the doom and gloom they hear on sites like this and in Forbes magazine. Being black and having a good score like a 164 is going to seal the deal in you attending some elitist law school like the University of Michigan. Moreover, apply somewhere less elite and they will probably let you go for free.

With all this ObamaCare nonsense being spewed in the Wall Street Journal and on Fox News, I think applications to medical school will be dropping. Fox/WSJ/Rupert Murdoch owned media outlets are telling people that doctors aren't making squat anymore and trial lawyers who sue them are making bank. I predict an increase in law school applications in the coming years, but don't expect it anytime soon with NBC news showing a story of some loser with a JD who practices law and works at Sam's Club and can't muster $15,000 a year. If you can't make $15K running a lemonade stand, breeding purebred dogs, or working at Arby's you have some serious problems and should seek immediate help.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:19 pm

Well, uh...ya see...um, there were some correct statements in there but...huh?

AaronCarter
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby AaronCarter » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:07 pm

Korematsu wrote:This Supreme Court is so fickle and unpredicable that I wouldn't base my life plans on anticipating any ruling from them.

I would encourage you to take the test in December since applications are down the toilet because everyone is scared of the doom and gloom they hear on sites like this and in Forbes magazine. Being black and having a good score like a 164 is going to seal the deal in you attending some elitist law school like the University of Michigan. Moreover, apply somewhere less elite and they will probably let you go for free.

With all this ObamaCare nonsense being spewed in the Wall Street Journal and on Fox News, I think applications to medical school will be dropping. Fox/WSJ/Rupert Murdoch owned media outlets are telling people that doctors aren't making squat anymore and trial lawyers who sue them are making bank. I predict an increase in law school applications in the coming years, but don't expect it anytime soon with NBC news showing a story of some loser with a JD who practices law and works at Sam's Club and can't muster $15,000 a year. If you can't make $15K running a lemonade stand, breeding purebred dogs, or working at Arby's you have some serious problems and should seek immediate help.



If you're going to troll a post. Don't do such a crap job.


Also, ScottRiqui. If that's correct, that's quite hopeful.

Korematsu
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby Korematsu » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:53 pm

AaronCarter wrote:
Korematsu wrote:This Supreme Court is so fickle and unpredicable that I wouldn't base my life plans on anticipating any ruling from them.

I would encourage you to take the test in December since applications are down the toilet because everyone is scared of the doom and gloom they hear on sites like this and in Forbes magazine. Being black and having a good score like a 164 is going to seal the deal in you attending some elitist law school like the University of Michigan. Moreover, apply somewhere less elite and they will probably let you go for free.

With all this ObamaCare nonsense being spewed in the Wall Street Journal and on Fox News, I think applications to medical school will be dropping. Fox/WSJ/Rupert Murdoch owned media outlets are telling people that doctors aren't making squat anymore and trial lawyers who sue them are making bank. I predict an increase in law school applications in the coming years, but don't expect it anytime soon with NBC news showing a story of some loser with a JD who practices law and works at Sam's Club and can't muster $15,000 a year. If you can't make $15K running a lemonade stand, breeding purebred dogs, or working at Arby's you have some serious problems and should seek immediate help.



If you're going to troll a post. Don't do such a crap job.


Also, ScottRiqui. If that's correct, that's quite hopeful.


No trolling here. Everything in that post came from media stories I have seen in the past week. The Supreme Court is fickle, but if they granted cert to a race-based affirmative action case right now, given the make-up of the current Court, it would probably be struck down.
Last edited by Korematsu on Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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arkgawilson
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby arkgawilson » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:36 am

MoMettaMonk wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:
MistakenGenius wrote:You can be less qualified than your fellow applicants because of the color of your skin.




Not the first time I've seen that gif, not the last time I'm going to laugh at that gif; especially when executed as well as Twenty just did.


right?

chaseychase
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby chaseychase » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:20 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:Yeah, if law schools actually got rid of affirmative action there would be about 30 AAs in all of T-14. That's never going to happen.

Do law schools take into account socioeconomic disadvantage?

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sublime
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby sublime » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:37 pm

..

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MarkinKansasCity
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:39 pm

sublime wrote:
chaseychase wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:Yeah, if law schools actually got rid of affirmative action there would be about 30 AAs in all of T-14. That's never going to happen.

Do law schools take into account socioeconomic disadvantage?



Not really, race based admissions is kind of a "close enough" for SES.


LOLnope

Race based admission is for diversity numbers. Nobody cares if you're poor, or at least not very much. Being poor is probably about even with volunteering at a soup kitchen for a soft, which isn't saying much.

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sublime
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby sublime » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:41 pm

..

Chriz
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby Chriz » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:08 am

I wish I was a URM :(




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