Black Student. Need Help.

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AaronCarter
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Black Student. Need Help.

Postby AaronCarter » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:10 am

First, I'm extremely new to this site. So if this has already been discussed and answered, I apologize up front.

But I'm a junior. I've been studying for the LSAT since May. I've been scoring consistently around 164/165. I have a 3.34 GPA. Very active in school.

Last week, one of my professors told me straight to my face that i NEED to take the LSAT by December. Because as a black student (yeah, i'm black btw), this will be the last time I will have an "edge" in the admission process.
According to him, the "edge" is going to be litigated in the Supreme Court this year and they'll strike something down by the time the next application cycle rolls around.

I don't know if he was being extremely racist and I should report him or if this is true.

Please help.

(btw, i'm thinking about going to DePaul for law school. I can see myself in the Chicago area.)

Pancakes12
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby Pancakes12 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:16 am

Are you asking if black students actually receive a boost in admissions? Because, yes, along with other URMs, they do. Or are you asking if the supreme court will put an end to this by next cycle? I can't tell you the answer to that question.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:26 am

There is a case pending before the Supreme Court regarding affirmative action (addressing a voter-approved ban on the use of affirmative action in college admissions and state hiring). What the Court will hold, and its effect on affirmative action, is completely up in the air right now (nor do I know when the decision will come down, though I think oral argument is this fall). However, if you're a junior now, and this Supreme Court case does actually do away with considerations of race in law school admissions, I don't think there's much you can do about it - it will come down before you apply/get admitted (whether you've taken the LSAT by then doesn't seem to me to make a difference).

There is a demonstrated boost for African American students in the admissions process - you may to roam around the URM (underrepresented minority) forum and look at URM profiles on http://lawschoolnumbers.com/ to see how this has worked so far. I suspect you will be able to do better than DePaul (and that many posters here will urge you not to go to DePaul), but I'm not super up on admissions issues any more.

[Also: if you want to discuss the merits of the URM boost for AAs or anything like that, this is not the place; there's a thread specifically for that kind of discussion. Just for reference.]

Good luck!

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Clearly
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby Clearly » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:27 am

Also, forget DePaul, study till you're at 170, enjoy a top 6.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:31 am

the SCOTUS stuff aside, if you hit your goal, you have a shot at T6. If you really want Chicago, apply ED to Northwestern with a chance at the 120K scholarship and RD to Chicago with a decent chance at admissions. Definitely don't apply to Depaul

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HankBashir
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby HankBashir » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:41 am

Since you're a junior, taking the LSAT earlier isn't going to affect which cycle you apply in anyway, so taking it earlier gives you no advantage in that area.

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xylocarp
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby xylocarp » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:44 am

Yeah, I don't think it makes a difference either way when you take the LSAT unless you apply this cycle rather than next cycle (which I'm fairly certain you can't do since you're a junior).

Not related, but if you're PTing at 164/165 at this stage of the game, you're in a great place right now. Keep at it with the right study materials and you could definitely be 170+ by June.

poke800ash
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby poke800ash » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:07 pm

xylocarp wrote:Yeah, I don't think it makes a difference either way when you take the LSAT unless you apply this cycle rather than next cycle (which I'm fairly certain you can't do since you're a junior).

Not related, but if you're PTing at 164/165 at this stage of the game, you're in a great place right now. Keep at it with the right study materials and you could definitely be 170+ by June.


Yep, forget DePaul and enjoy Uchi by deferring the lsat :) (you can get in with you practice scores to DePaul now) Also, to comment on the prof, what subject does he teach???? If he is a law prof then he should know that the SCOTUS decision will affect your cycle regardless of when you take the lSAT, if not, then he is probably misinformed by reading too much inaccurate mainstream reporting and might genuinely have your best interest at heart. (If I were to think that a group of my students will be losing out if they were to apply after an arbitrary date, I will try to do my best to inform that group of the upcoming change eg. under the current climate, urms with 3.6/169 regularly gets in to HYS whereas their non-urm counterpart will find it difficult even with the lower T14s, but schools might be forbidden from doing that after the decision. Unlikely because Clarence Thomas is probably the only Justice willing to completed revoke affirmative action at this stage, but there will probably be more regulations which will ultimately reduce the independence of the admissions process.)

Huey Freeman
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby Huey Freeman » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:13 pm

Also, I don't think you should report your professor or anything. It's a well known fact that black applicants get a significant boost (8-10 pts on the LSAT roughly) in law school admissions, and there is a supreme court case that could alter that. The guy was just looking out for your best interests, even if he was a little wrong.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:21 pm

Lol what about your professor's statement could be "extremely racist" and to whom would you report him?

Ti Malice
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:49 pm

AaronCarter wrote:I don't know if he was being extremely racist and I should report him or if this is true.


As others have said, he wasn't being racist at all. He was trying to be helpful, since he knows that AA applicants receive big boosts in LS admissions and is also aware that this might not continue to be the case. However, he's incorrect in thinking that the timing of the LSAT within a given cycle will have any implications for the URM boost you'll receive.

By the way, aim higher. DePaul has pitiful job placement. Your numbers will already get you into far better schools. Keep improving your GPA, and get your LSAT into the 170s. You'll have a number of options among the top fourteen.

AaronCarter
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby AaronCarter » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:14 pm

Thank you for all of the responses.
It's good to know my professor just wasn't being a jerk. ha!

I know it's impossible to tell, but assuming the supreme court DOES strike down this LSAT advantage for minority students... does that mean that the moment the decision comes down the race of an individual in immediately disregarded?

I ask b/c if it would REALLY be in my best interest to finish college substantially earlier, I could. It'd take me having to pile on a bunch of credit next semester, but I could finish in my junior year.

And one last question. I wasn't sure what T6 meant. Then I did some digging...are some of you implying that I could get into Harvard with a 3.3ish and a 170 on the LSAT?

AaronCarter
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby AaronCarter » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:22 pm

And I guess...Is taking the LSAT in February totally out of the question?

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twenty
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby twenty » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:05 pm

The Supreme Court took a miserably long time just to decide to punt Fischer v. UTexas. It seems highly unlikely that there would be this massive ruling that all affirmative action is illegal overnight.

Take your time with college, get the best grades you can, take the LSAT when you're ready. Rushing as a junior is dumb.

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mr. wednesday
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby mr. wednesday » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:15 pm

AaronCarter wrote:And I guess...Is taking the LSAT in February totally out of the question?


No, if you want to take it in Feb. you can do that. If you still feel like you could improve on whatever your Feb. score is, you can re-take it in June.

I wouldn't rush to graduate based on the possibility that the court may rule in a certain way that may or may not affect you. If you can raise your GPA by working hard this year and next, and score 170+ on the LSAT, you will be able to get into a much better school than DePaul regardless of AA. Maybe in the meantime you can find an internship or volunteer opportunity in the legal field that will give you a better idea of whether you enjoy it, and what specifically you enjoy about it.

Just focus on succeeding in those two areas and come back when you have a LSAT score. People will be more than happy to give you suggestions about where you should apply and what your chances might be at that point.

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xylocarp
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby xylocarp » Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:00 pm

AaronCarter wrote:And one last question. I wasn't sure what T6 meant. Then I did some digging...are some of you implying that I could get into Harvard with a 3.3ish and a 170 on the LSAT?


With a 3.3-3.4 and a 170, Harvard and Stanford would be unlikely but definitely possible, with the rest of the T14 (other than Yale) being pretty likely. With a 173 you'd have a solid shot at Harvard with a chance even at Yale. Check out myLSN.info.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:32 pm

AaronCarter wrote:Thank you for all of the responses.
It's good to know my professor just wasn't being a jerk. ha!

I know it's impossible to tell, but assuming the supreme court DOES strike down this LSAT advantage for minority students... does that mean that the moment the decision comes down the race of an individual in immediately disregarded?

I ask b/c if it would REALLY be in my best interest to finish college substantially earlier, I could. It'd take me having to pile on a bunch of credit next semester, but I could finish in my junior year.

And one last question. I wasn't sure what T6 meant. Then I did some digging...are some of you implying that I could get into Harvard with a 3.3ish and a 170 on the LSAT?


Dont finish college early. Chill out, wait on the LSAT, get your GPA over 3.5 if possible and apply fall 2015 with 170+.

Affirmative action at law schools isnt going anywhere in the next 2 years. And you cant pretend you didnt know about such a pervasive policy before this professor alerted you... (He's totally wrong on law school strategy even tho he's right about the AA boost)

Void
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby Void » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:40 pm

I'm not that familiar with the case, but it's my understanding that the issue is whether state-imemented affirmative action policies (at state schools) violate the Equal Protection Clause. Even if SCOTUS finds that AA is unconstitutional, I'm not sure whether the decision would/could affect private law school admissions. Like I said I'm not familiar with the case and I could be wrong, but there is no state action in private school admissions decisions and therefore no constitutional violation for selectivity based upon membership in a protected class, right?

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby ScottRiqui » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:44 pm

I think your professor may believe that affirmative action takes the form of an actual score boost on the LSAT itself (i.e. you receive a higher score on the test because of your race), rather than a boost from the schools' admissions committees. That's the only reason I could think that he would recommend taking the LSAT early; he may be thinking you can "lock in" the boost by taking the test now.

As others have pointed out, any future changes in affirmative action policies won't affect you until you actually apply; the date of your LSAT score is irrelevant.

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MistakenGenius
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Post removed.

Postby MistakenGenius » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:47 am

Post removed.
Last edited by MistakenGenius on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:51 am

MistakenGenius wrote:Okay, first of all, how the hell was he being extremely racist? This is a nice man who obviously is trying to help you out, and you're going to try to smear his name as a racist? It's a fact. You can be less qualified than your fellow applicants because of the color of your skin. I'm not debating the merits of the system here (obviously there's the case to be made that URM's possess a different worldview thereby strengthening the education of all students), but it is up for a vote in the supreme court and it appears that Kennedy will vote against affirmative action. As the swing vote, this means it may be over. Your professor was completely right and did it in a fair way, and you're considering ruining his entire life because you don't like what he said. Let me just say, go fuck yourself. I encourage you to go to Depaul. If this is your logical process, I don't think you'll do well in the T14.

1. Calm down.

2. Is this new AA case going to touch private schools? Because none of the cases before it have.

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twenty
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby twenty » Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:42 pm

MistakenGenius wrote:You can be less qualified than your fellow applicants because of the color of your skin.


Image

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MoMettaMonk
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby MoMettaMonk » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:47 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:
MistakenGenius wrote:You can be less qualified than your fellow applicants because of the color of your skin.




Not the first time I've seen that gif, not the last time I'm going to laugh at that gif; especially when executed as well as Twenty just did.

AaronCarter
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby AaronCarter » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:41 am

As others have said, he wasn't being racist at all. He was trying to be helpful, since he knows that AA applicants receive big boosts in LS admissions and is also aware that this might not continue to be the case. However, he's incorrect in thinking that the timing of the LSAT within a given cycle will have any implications for the URM boost you'll receive.



Why?

From this thread and from research I have done, there appears to be a definite "bump" for students of color.
Due to the case which the court granted cert (Schuette v. Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action) and the conservative leanings of the court, Affirmative Action seems to be on the way out.

With my pitiful 3.3ish crap GPA, my best shot at trying to gain elite access into elite schools appears to hinge on graduating early and applying before the court strikes down the practice.

What do you all think?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Black Student. Need Help.

Postby JamMasterJ » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:50 am

AaronCarter wrote:
As others have said, he wasn't being racist at all. He was trying to be helpful, since he knows that AA applicants receive big boosts in LS admissions and is also aware that this might not continue to be the case. However, he's incorrect in thinking that the timing of the LSAT within a given cycle will have any implications for the URM boost you'll receive.



Why?

From this thread and from research I have done, there appears to be a definite "bump" for students of color.
Due to the case which the court granted cert (Schuette v. Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action) and the conservative leanings of the court, Affirmative Action seems to be on the way out.

With my pitiful 3.3ish crap GPA, my best shot at trying to gain elite access into elite schools appears to hinge on graduating early and applying before the court strikes down the practice.

What do you all think?

the timing is irrelevant. Not the boost.




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