TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

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dempsey6
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TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby dempsey6 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:33 pm

Worth it?

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twenty
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby twenty » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:32 pm

In some circumstances, yes. In most circumstances, no.

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Cicero76
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby Cicero76 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:26 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:In some circumstances At Harvard, yes. In most circumstances, no.

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twenty
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby twenty » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:02 pm

Not quite so cut and dry.

The general rhetoric is that a JD/MBA creates a "noticeable" boost in hiring, and is definitely not worth 90k+ and a year of school. However, that's kind of limiting. If I was looking at a full ride at Penn + sticker MBA versus HLS/HBS with close to sticker at both, I would absolutely do Penn. Frankly, even if it was half scholarship, I'd probably go with Penn.

The schools where you can justify doing a JD/MBA are Harvard, Stanford, Penn, Chicago, Northwestern, Berkeley, and Columbia. Maybe UCLA or Duke if you have ties to either area. On top of that, you can't just go, "Oh, I got into Chicago JD/MBA, so obviously I should do both." The profile of someone it makes sense for is someone who's been in the workforce for 4-5 years in a position an MBA would realistically help, AND that person receives substantial money at the law school/business school.

The reason why Northwestern has a disproportionately larger JD/MBA population than the rest of the T14 is because of the very profile Northwestern tends to attract. They give out a lot of scholarship money to folks with decent work experience, and NU law is very biglaw-or-bust, so it often makes sense to spend an extra year in school for the Kellogg MBA.

In short, there should be no K-MBA students. The MBA is a professional development you want to undertake as you move up/around in your career. The JD is a licensing mechanism that allows you to practice law.

People need to stop thinking of JD/MBAs as "super JDs" and start thinking of them as two different degrees. They make sense for a very small niche group of people that are in a very specific circumstance. For most people asking, "SO JD/MBA AT GULC YOU GUIEZ?" it doesn't.

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Cicero76
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby Cicero76 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:26 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:Not quite so cut and dry.

The general rhetoric is that a JD/MBA creates a "noticeable" boost in hiring, and is definitely not worth 90k+ and a year of school. However, that's kind of limiting. If I was looking at a full ride at Penn + sticker MBA versus HLS/HBS with close to sticker at both, I would absolutely do Penn. Frankly, even if it was half scholarship, I'd probably go with Penn.

The schools where you can justify doing a JD/MBA are Harvard, Stanford, Penn, Chicago, Northwestern, Berkeley, and Columbia. Maybe UCLA or Duke if you have ties to either area. On top of that, you can't just go, "Oh, I got into Chicago JD/MBA, so obviously I should do both." The profile of someone it makes sense for is someone who's been in the workforce for 4-5 years in a position an MBA would realistically help, AND that person receives substantial money at the law school/business school.

The reason why Northwestern has a disproportionately larger JD/MBA population than the rest of the T14 is because of the very profile Northwestern tends to attract. They give out a lot of scholarship money to folks with decent work experience, and NU law is very biglaw-or-bust, so it often makes sense to spend an extra year in school for the Kellogg MBA.

In short, there should be no K-MBA students. The MBA is a professional development you want to undertake as you move up/around in your career. The JD is a licensing mechanism that allows you to practice law.

People need to stop thinking of JD/MBAs as "super JDs" and start thinking of them as two different degrees. They make sense for a very small niche group of people that are in a very specific circumstance. For most people asking, "SO JD/MBA AT GULC YOU GUIEZ?" it doesn't.


I retract my comment to +1 this

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guano
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby guano » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:10 pm

It's rare that the perfect response comes within the first few posts, but, that is the best, most complete, answer possible.

The only thing to add (or tl/dr) is that one shouldn't do a JD/MBA for the sake of doing a JD/MBA. Only do a JD/MBA if it makes sense to do both (M&A comes to mind, but even that has caveats)

subtle
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby subtle » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:01 pm

If you want to do litigation, no.

If you want to go into corporate, possibly. See above post.

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jingosaur
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby jingosaur » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:34 am

I just want to add to twenty's post since I'm about to go through the JD/MBA application process.

Many schools have started 3 year programs (Stanford, Yale, Columbia, Penn, Northwestern, Cornell), but the tuition at most of them is about equal to that of the four year programs.

I also agree with the notion that an MBA is only worth it with significant work experience and relatable career goals. I feel like my career objectives strongly justify a JD/MBA and there's still a good chance that I'll only do one or the other because of the additional cost and time commitment.

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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby subtle » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:27 pm

Taking business courses without getting an MBA is another option, depending on what you want to do. It's always helpful, if you're going corporate, to actually be able to read a balance sheet, etc., but that doesn't necessarily justify getting an MBA.

GJWheeler
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby GJWheeler » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:37 am

Here are the answers:

[*]if you're not going to a top school, it's never worth it.

[*]if you're going to a top school and want to be a lawyer, it's not worth it.

[*]if you're going to a top school and don't want to be a lawyer, it might be worth it


(re: being a lawyer, i'm referring to the immediate 0-3 yrs after law school)

tirakon
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby tirakon » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:46 am

Purely out of curiosity, any thoughts on Yale's 3 year JD/MBA program?

GJWheeler
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby GJWheeler » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:49 am

tirakon wrote:Purely out of curiosity, any thoughts on Yale's 3 year JD/MBA program?

i'd say a yale MBA doesn't even compare to a yale jd

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guano
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby guano » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:04 pm

tirakon wrote:Purely out of curiosity, any thoughts on Yale's 3 year JD/MBA program?

Yale's MBA is not worth the paper it's written on

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jingosaur
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby jingosaur » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:15 pm

guano wrote:
tirakon wrote:Purely out of curiosity, any thoughts on Yale's 3 year JD/MBA program?

Yale's MBA is not worth the paper it's written on


Most people who say bad things about Yale's MBA tend to do so because of its awful US News ranking. In terms of admissions stats and job placement, it's really a pretty good MBA program, although nowhere even close to its Law School. In law school terms, it's like a back-end T14 IMO, but for how much MBA prestige matters, I would say that Penn, Northwestern, and Columbia have better JD/MBA programs for most prospective JD/MBAs unless they for some reason want to use the degree for academia or public interest or something (not recommended).

@GJWheeler, would you mind expanding on your post?

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guano
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby guano » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:31 pm

jingosaur wrote:
guano wrote:
tirakon wrote:Purely out of curiosity, any thoughts on Yale's 3 year JD/MBA program?

Yale's MBA is not worth the paper it's written on


Most people who say bad things about Yale's MBA tend to do so because of its awful US News ranking. In terms of admissions stats and job placement, it's really a pretty good MBA program, although nowhere even close to its Law School. In law school terms, it's like a back-end T14 IMO, but for how much MBA prestige matters, I would say that Penn, Northwestern, and Columbia have better JD/MBA programs for most prospective JD/MBAs unless they for some reason want to use the degree for academia or public interest or something (not recommended).

@GJWheeler, would you mind expanding on your post?

You missed Harvard.

Yale's MBA is not bad, in the way that Alabama's JD isn't bad. It's just that a Yale MBA adds no value to a Yale JD, other than the intrinsic knowledge itself.

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twenty
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby twenty » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:39 pm

The nice thing about Yale's JD/MBA is the fact that tuition is only about 30k more. On the whole, that's pretty doable.

The downside to that is that the MBA becomes a very expensive paperweight if you're one of many Yale grads that ends up with a super-prestigious PI/govt. gig. Yale's LRAP does not cover joint degrees whatsoever, plus most of the top-PI jobs really couldn't care less about the MBA portion.

Also, like I mentioned before, the JD/MBA is not a "super JD", and the incredibly small advantage a JD/MBA grad from Yale might have over a JD grad is probably not even worth 30k.

EDIT> Apparently the SOM has some loan forgiveness program, too. Effing Yale. :D

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jingosaur
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby jingosaur » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:52 pm

guano wrote:You missed Harvard.



Yeah, also left out Stanford. It's implied that these 2 programs are better than Yale's JD/MBA.

I've also heard that there's a way to get a dual Yale JD and a Harvard MBA but I haven't looked into it.

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guano
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby guano » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:36 pm

jingosaur wrote:
guano wrote:You missed Harvard.



Yeah, also left out Stanford. It's implied that these 2 programs are better than Yale's JD/MBA.

I've also heard that there's a way to get a dual Yale JD and a Harvard MBA but I haven't looked into it.

You do each separately and live halfway between the two schools (they're only about two hours apart)

tirakon
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby tirakon » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:43 pm

guano wrote:
jingosaur wrote:
guano wrote:You missed Harvard.



Yeah, also left out Stanford. It's implied that these 2 programs are better than Yale's JD/MBA.

I've also heard that there's a way to get a dual Yale JD and a Harvard MBA but I haven't looked into it.

You do each separately and live halfway between the two schools (they're only about two hours apart)


Is that sarcasm?

I know someone who is doing a Yale JD / Stanford MBA in 4 years. So, presumably such combinations are possible.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: TLS Consensus of JD/MBA

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:07 pm

Yeah a friend is doing a Yale JD and a Princeton MPA in 4 years. They reside one year at Princeton and three years at Yale.




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