Nightmare on Law Street

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cavtrpr
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Nightmare on Law Street

Postby cavtrpr » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:53 am

Just to clarify up front, this isn't a question. I've spent a considerable amount of time lurking. Over the course of this time, much of my reading has been in threads with titles such as "do you regret going to law school," for example, or "do you like being a lawyer?"

Scare the shit out of a prospective lawyer? Mission accomplished.

Maybe I'll just stay in the damn army. That is all.

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twenty
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby twenty » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:09 am

Couple things to consider:

The people that whine about how god-awful law is are usually the people that have a bachelor's degree in history and expected to come out of undergrad with their 3.1 and be begged by PhD admissions officers to please-pretty-please join their university on a full fellowship. Guys that come out of finance or other jobs that require 60+ hours a week of work and then go to law school rarely complain about how "bad it is."

Secondly, you're an Army guy. You've no-doubt met people that regret signing on for a four-year commitment. For every person that regrets signing on for four years, you probably have 2-3 guys that wouldn't trade this experience for the world. Law school has plenty of people that hate it, plenty of people that love it. The hate-it people are just more vocal. ;)

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cavtrpr
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby cavtrpr » Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:47 am

twentypercentmore wrote:Couple things to consider:

The people that whine about how god-awful law is are usually the people that have a bachelor's degree in history and expected to come out of undergrad with their 3.1 and be begged by PhD admissions officers to please-pretty-please join their university on a full fellowship. Guys that come out of finance or other jobs that require 60+ hours a week of work and then go to law school rarely complain about how "bad it is."

Secondly, you're an Army guy. You've no-doubt met people that regret signing on for a four-year commitment. For every person that regrets signing on for four years, you probably have 2-3 guys that wouldn't trade this experience for the world. Law school has plenty of people that hate it, plenty of people that love it. The hate-it people are just more vocal. ;)


I have a BA in history...and I graduated with a 3.1 :shock: . Although I had no such expectation. I was just trying to crank out Airborne, Air Assault, Pathfinder, Ranger School, and as many deployments as I could.

Touche on your second paragraph though.

KittyLaredo
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby KittyLaredo » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:20 am

twentypercentmore wrote:Couple things to consider:

The people that whine about how god-awful law is are usually the people that have a bachelor's degree in history and expected to come out of undergrad with their 3.1 and be begged by PhD admissions officers to please-pretty-please join their university on a full fellowship. Guys that come out of finance or other jobs that require 60+ hours a week of work and then go to law school rarely complain about how "bad it is."

Secondly, you're an Army guy. You've no-doubt met people that regret signing on for a four-year commitment. For every person that regrets signing on for four years, you probably have 2-3 guys that wouldn't trade this experience for the world. Law school has plenty of people that hate it, plenty of people that love it. The hate-it people are just more vocal. ;)



I find your flippant post not only inaccurate but highly insulting. I got a BA in History, graduated summa cum laude with a 3.93 and worked full time while doing it. Your characterization of History majors is way off base. Getting a history degree is actually a great preparation for going to law school given the amount of reading, research and critical analysis one has to do.

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smaug_
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby smaug_ » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:31 am

ben80 wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:Couple things to consider:

The people that whine about how god-awful law is are usually the people that have a bachelor's degree in history and expected to come out of undergrad with their 3.1 and be begged by PhD admissions officers to please-pretty-please join their university on a full fellowship. Guys that come out of finance or other jobs that require 60+ hours a week of work and then go to law school rarely complain about how "bad it is."

Secondly, you're an Army guy. You've no-doubt met people that regret signing on for a four-year commitment. For every person that regrets signing on for four years, you probably have 2-3 guys that wouldn't trade this experience for the world. Law school has plenty of people that hate it, plenty of people that love it. The hate-it people are just more vocal. ;)



I find your flippant post not only inaccurate but highly insulting. I got a BA in History, graduated summa cum laude with a 3.93 and worked full time while doing it. Your characterization of History majors is way off base. Getting a history degree is actually a great preparation for going to law school given the amount of reading, research and critical analysis one has to do.


I can't tell if you're just totally unaware or if you have the most massive chip on your shoulder ever. Just chill, bro.

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stuckinthemiddle
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby stuckinthemiddle » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:42 am

ben80 wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:Couple things to consider:

The people that whine about how god-awful law is are usually the people that have a bachelor's degree in history and expected to come out of undergrad with their 3.1 and be begged by PhD admissions officers to please-pretty-please join their university on a full fellowship. Guys that come out of finance or other jobs that require 60+ hours a week of work and then go to law school rarely complain about how "bad it is."

Secondly, you're an Army guy. You've no-doubt met people that regret signing on for a four-year commitment. For every person that regrets signing on for four years, you probably have 2-3 guys that wouldn't trade this experience for the world. Law school has plenty of people that hate it, plenty of people that love it. The hate-it people are just more vocal. ;)



I find your flippant post not only inaccurate but highly insulting. I got a BA in History, graduated summa cum laude with a 3.93 and worked full time while doing it. Your characterization of History majors is way off base. Getting a history degree is actually a great preparation for going to law school given the amount of reading, research and critical analysis one has to do.


Image

KittyLaredo
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby KittyLaredo » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:04 am

stuckinthemiddle wrote:
ben80 wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:Couple things to consider:

The people that whine about how god-awful law is are usually the people that have a bachelor's degree in history and expected to come out of undergrad with their 3.1 and be begged by PhD admissions officers to please-pretty-please join their university on a full fellowship. Guys that come out of finance or other jobs that require 60+ hours a week of work and then go to law school rarely complain about how "bad it is."

Secondly, you're an Army guy. You've no-doubt met people that regret signing on for a four-year commitment. For every person that regrets signing on for four years, you probably have 2-3 guys that wouldn't trade this experience for the world. Law school has plenty of people that hate it, plenty of people that love it. The hate-it people are just more vocal. ;)



I find your flippant post not only inaccurate but highly insulting. I got a BA in History, graduated summa cum laude with a 3.93 and worked full time while doing it. Your characterization of History majors is way off base. Getting a history degree is actually a great preparation for going to law school given the amount of reading, research and critical analysis one has to do.



LOL, sorry. :oops:

I just get annoyed when business majors/finance types think getting a history degree is a)easy or b)a waste of time.

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Gamine
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby Gamine » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:40 am

twentypercentmore wrote:The hate-it people are just more vocal. ;)


That is often the case in most situations in life

californiauser
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby californiauser » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:26 am

ben80 wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:Couple things to consider:

The people that whine about how god-awful law is are usually the people that have a bachelor's degree in history and expected to come out of undergrad with their 3.1 and be begged by PhD admissions officers to please-pretty-please join their university on a full fellowship. Guys that come out of finance or other jobs that require 60+ hours a week of work and then go to law school rarely complain about how "bad it is."

Secondly, you're an Army guy. You've no-doubt met people that regret signing on for a four-year commitment. For every person that regrets signing on for four years, you probably have 2-3 guys that wouldn't trade this experience for the world. Law school has plenty of people that hate it, plenty of people that love it. The hate-it people are just more vocal. ;)



I find your flippant post not only inaccurate but highly insulting. I got a BA in History, graduated summa cum laude with a 3.93 and worked full time while doing it. Your characterization of History majors is way off base. Getting a history degree is actually a great preparation for going to law school given the amount of reading, research and critical analysis one has to do.


Seriously, dude?

09042014
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:47 am

ben80 wrote:
stuckinthemiddle wrote:
ben80 wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:Couple things to consider:

The people that whine about how god-awful law is are usually the people that have a bachelor's degree in history and expected to come out of undergrad with their 3.1 and be begged by PhD admissions officers to please-pretty-please join their university on a full fellowship. Guys that come out of finance or other jobs that require 60+ hours a week of work and then go to law school rarely complain about how "bad it is."

Secondly, you're an Army guy. You've no-doubt met people that regret signing on for a four-year commitment. For every person that regrets signing on for four years, you probably have 2-3 guys that wouldn't trade this experience for the world. Law school has plenty of people that hate it, plenty of people that love it. The hate-it people are just more vocal. ;)



I find your flippant post not only inaccurate but highly insulting. I got a BA in History, graduated summa cum laude with a 3.93 and worked full time while doing it. Your characterization of History majors is way off base. Getting a history degree is actually a great preparation for going to law school given the amount of reading, research and critical analysis one has to do.



LOL, sorry. :oops:

I just get annoyed when business majors/finance types think getting a history degree is a)easy or b)a waste of time.


Yea you'll show them! Your BA in history got you into the POWERHOUSE of FLORIDA, UF. Watch out legal world!

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iShotFirst
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby iShotFirst » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:51 am

twentypercentmore wrote:Couple things to consider:

The people that whine about how god-awful law is are usually the people that have a bachelor's degree in history and expected to come out of undergrad with their 3.1 and be begged by PhD admissions officers to please-pretty-please join their university on a full fellowship. Guys that come out of finance or other jobs that require 60+ hours a week of work and then go to law school rarely complain about how "bad it is."

Secondly, you're an Army guy. You've no-doubt met people that regret signing on for a four-year commitment. For every person that regrets signing on for four years, you probably have 2-3 guys that wouldn't trade this experience for the world. Law school has plenty of people that hate it, plenty of people that love it. The hate-it people are just more vocal. ;)


No comment on the History thing (Business here) but you are spot on on the 60+ hrs then law school comment... so many people complain about law school and how hard it is, if you treat it like a job its really not that tough- and you actually get to do things on the weekend and at night, like see your family! no joke going to law school and working as a lawyer probably saved my marriage

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sinfiery
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby sinfiery » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:09 pm

I think a lot of people regret it because of the debt and/or expectations of a models and bottles lifestyle. Debt is something you likely won't have to deal with (gi bill?) and this thread should be indication enough of the latter not being true.

You could still hate it tho

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Justin Genious
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby Justin Genious » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:50 pm

ben80 wrote:
stuckinthemiddle wrote:
ben80 wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:Couple things to consider:

The people that whine about how god-awful law is are usually the people that have a bachelor's degree in history and expected to come out of undergrad with their 3.1 and be begged by PhD admissions officers to please-pretty-please join their university on a full fellowship. Guys that come out of finance or other jobs that require 60+ hours a week of work and then go to law school rarely complain about how "bad it is."

Secondly, you're an Army guy. You've no-doubt met people that regret signing on for a four-year commitment. For every person that regrets signing on for four years, you probably have 2-3 guys that wouldn't trade this experience for the world. Law school has plenty of people that hate it, plenty of people that love it. The hate-it people are just more vocal. ;)



I find your flippant post not only inaccurate but highly insulting. I got a BA in History, graduated summa cum laude with a 3.93 and worked full time while doing it. Your characterization of History majors is way off base. Getting a history degree is actually a great preparation for going to law school given the amount of reading, research and critical analysis one has to do.



LOL, sorry. :oops:

I just get annoyed when business majors/finance types think getting a history degree is a)easy or b)a waste of time.

I thnk you missed the point of his post.

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cavtrpr
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby cavtrpr » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:00 pm

sinfiery wrote:I think a lot of people regret it because of the debt and/or expectations of a models and bottles lifestyle. Debt is something you likely won't have to deal with (gi bill?) and this thread should be indication enough of the latter not being true.

You could still hate it tho


Maybe that is the kicker for me. With the GI Bill, other tuition assistance programs available to veterans, an excess amount of money saved from those tax-free deployments, maybe a scholarship (I wouldn't count on it with my numbers but who knows), and my wife for me to live off of while I'm in school, it isn't unreasonable that I could complete law school with $0 in debt.

And what's up with the history stuff? I know its not a theoretical physics of aeronautical artificial intelligence development degree but it isn't that bogus. It could be a PE major like 10 out of 10 NCAA athletes are. Is the history hating being exaggerated in this thread or doesn't it really receive no love?

And if I may ask, what makes a business major so difficult?

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UVAIce
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby UVAIce » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:08 pm

cavtrpr wrote:
sinfiery wrote:I think a lot of people regret it because of the debt and/or expectations of a models and bottles lifestyle. Debt is something you likely won't have to deal with (gi bill?) and this thread should be indication enough of the latter not being true.

You could still hate it tho


Maybe that is the kicker for me. With the GI Bill, other tuition assistance programs available to veterans, an excess amount of money saved from those tax-free deployments, maybe a scholarship (I wouldn't count on it with my numbers but who knows), and my wife for me to live off of while I'm in school, it isn't unreasonable that I could complete law school with $0 in debt.

And what's up with the history stuff? I know its not a theoretical physics of aeronautical artificial intelligence development degree but it isn't that bogus. It could be a PE major like 10 out of 10 NCAA athletes are. Is the history hating being exaggerated in this thread or doesn't it really receive no love?

And if I may ask, what makes a business major so difficult?


I think this all depends on what school you go to and how those departments are run. At my school we used to make fun of all the business majors as the vast majority of them were just clueless drones that wanted a "marketable" degree, but were too scared of the finance and quant based classes to do anything other than a general business degree.

You'll be fine. History major kid, cool off. If you're really all that bomb then you'll do well in law school.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:18 pm

History is often the most challenging and rigorous major of the humanities at top schools, due to the heavy reading/writing/critical thinking components articulated by ben. However, in terms of raw hours of study and requisite brainpower/focus to complete the upper div coursework, the history major is still behind most STEM fields. No matter how much I love history and appreciate how tough reading 250pgs of TJ Clark in a week can be intellectually, no damn single 15-20pg history paper is as difficult to produce as an applied p-chem exam w/pde components and you won't convince me otherwise.

Economics departments vary in rigor, as do the social sciences as a whole (and "finance"/"business" are mostly state school bastard children of the econ major) -- some econ classes are definitely more time consuming than any history class, but seeing as the majority of the core coursework at the undergrad level is pretty simple, I would never place them as definitively more (or less) challenging than history across the board.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:31 pm

Although STEM grads tend to do better on the LSAT, History is one of the stronger majors in that regard. Econ is always among the strongest, as is philosophy.

I was a double major in history and government/poli sci (by the way, the two most represented majors in law school). Doubt it's "harder" than STEM majors, but the advantage is that you learn very quickly how to fix poor writing. STEM majors often have the best logical skills, but sometimes can't write for shit, which makes them terrible candidates to be future lawyers.

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twenty
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby twenty » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:13 pm

My goal wasn't to say some majors are hard and some majors aren't -- I'm just saying that the people who whine about how miserable law school/biglaw is tend to be the folks who have either been in school their whole lives, or else recently graduated and are now working a 35-hour a week job, half of which is spent on Facebook.

For the glass house thing, my major and school were so bogus that they didn't even do letter grades; everything was pass/fail. So much so that a lot of law schools got pissed that I didn't explain why I picked such a bogus program, and that kids is why I'm reapplying!... another story for another day.

Anyway, long story short, if you come into law school realizing that 1) You may not/probably won't get the job you want, 2) The debt doesn't look big right now, but wait until you have to start making payments, 3) You won't be a "good lawyer" for at least four years, probably longer, 4) Just because your mom thinks you're good at arguing doesn't mean law school is for you; if you realize all that, you'll probably be okay.

One day, I'd like to do a Chris Rock-style "How not to get your ass kicked by the legal profession" video with all interested TLSers. :D

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UVAIce
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby UVAIce » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:38 pm

Not that I disagree with what the 0L above me is saying... but talk about speaking from a position of absolutely zero, or close to zero, actual experience. All you are doing is repeating the tripe someone else gave you.

The more that I am exposed to the actual practice of law the more I realize that a majority of folks on this board have no clue what they are talking about. The admissions advice is good.

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twenty
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Re: Nightmare on Law Street

Postby twenty » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:59 pm

UVAIce wrote:All you are doing is repeating the tripe someone else gave you.


Or, you know, the tripe I watched my dad go through when he was in law school a few years ago.

Given that you agree with me, why even bother saying anything?




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