Tutors for 1L

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sweetfrenchtoast
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Tutors for 1L

Postby sweetfrenchtoast » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:40 pm

I've seen a few people mention hiring a tutor for 1L. Anyone want to talk more about this? Are they typically 2Ls and 3Ls (do they even have the time)? For those of you who had a tutor, how did They work with you? Etc etc. Running cost? Etc etc

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stillwater
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby stillwater » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:45 pm

sweetfrenchtoast wrote:I've seen a few people mention hiring a tutor for 1L. Anyone want to talk more about this? Are they typically 2Ls and 3Ls (do they even have the time)? For those of you who had a tutor, how did They work with you? Etc etc. Running cost? Etc etc


if you require a tutor, the curve is gonna bone your sweet french toast

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cinephile
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby cinephile » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:04 pm

How would you even know whether or not you need a tutor? You only get evaluated once, and that's with the final - at which point it's too late to get a tutor. If you aren't understanding the concepts, get an E&E, talk to your professor about your questions, do a practice test and go over it with a study group, etc. There's little point to a tutor because that person would've had to have your exact professor and cover the same material to be of any use (and sometimes it changes from year to year). And I guess the tutor could explain it to you, but so could the professor. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Just rely on the 2Ls and 3Ls for outlines.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby rickgrimes69 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:05 am

I don't really see how a tutor would help. Law school isn't hard because the concepts are too complicated to figure out on your own. It's hard cause there is a buttload of info you have to learn in a relatively short amount of time. Is the tutor going to help you cram?

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Devlin
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby Devlin » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:00 pm

Some schools have tutors for every class 1L year. They don't really provide too much of an advantage because every one would go to the tutoring sessions.

Shema
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby Shema » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:20 am

stillwater wrote:
sweetfrenchtoast wrote:I've seen a few people mention hiring a tutor for 1L. Anyone want to talk more about this? Are they typically 2Ls and 3Ls (do they even have the time)? For those of you who had a tutor, how did They work with you? Etc etc. Running cost? Etc etc


if you require a tutor, the curve is gonna bone your sweet french toast


I would have to disagree with this from personal experience. I started as a 1L at Loyola and hired a private tutor in the fall semester. The issue was not that I "required" a tutor. Since it was the beginning of fall semester neither I nor anyone else knew how well or not so well we would perform on exams. The "tutor" gave me an academic advantage by accelerating me through the material much faster then my peers. You would be surprised how much easier and faster it is to grasp legal concepts when someone with a clear understanding explains it to you in laymen's terms and in context of an example. As a result I was finished outlining one month ahead, had written practice exams throughout the semester and while my peers were outlining I was taking practice exams under time and exam conditions. The best part about it was that I was in office hours getting feedback on my exams before my peers made their mad dash to office hours around the end of november when everyone realizes they are not clear on what was covered throughout the semester. Having gone to office hours for feedback I was able to fine -tune my writing style based on the professor's own feedback. The major difference was that my peers hardly had time to do much more than finish their outlines and maybe issue-spot past exams (rarely did folks sit down and take full exams because they simply did not have the time).
The tutor came recommended from another student that had worked with the tutor and transferred to greener pastures. I actually ended up transferring as well. I should caution you that I think my tutor was effective because of direct knowledge with my school and having had a history of working with exclusively with 1Ls at certain law schools in So Cal. So if you look into a tutor be sure that they know your school and have experience with the professors.
There is also a difference between the type of tutor I had and the 2L and 3L tutors that in many cases work for or volunteer for the law school. Schools like USC call them peer mentors. These guys/gals are usually not too helpful in terms of gaining an academic advantage because the information they gave is given to the entire 1L class and they are essential mouth pieces of the law school administration and are not really designed to give any particular student and advantage over another.

Shema
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby Shema » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:31 am

rickgrimes69 wrote:I don't really see how a tutor would help. Law school isn't hard because the concepts are too complicated to figure out on your own. It's hard cause there is a buttload of info you have to learn in a relatively short amount of time. Is the tutor going to help you cram?


This comment is right in this sense: cramming or teaching yourself the law is a staple for any successful law school students.

This comment is wrong in this sense: My tutor taught me the black letter law (and explained the professors policy and theories) before I learned them in class using previous 2L/3L outlines so I did not have to cram and in fact had tons more time to do what really sets you apart.... WRITE PRACTICE EXAMS AND GET FEEDBACK

I am glad most law school students were too arrogant to work with a tutor when I was a 1L. The perception among 1Ls that the "concepts are not too complicated to figure out on your own" is exactly how I was able to set myself apart on the exam. I still had to work my butt off but I was humble enough to get a "tutor" because the advantage was more important than the label. Sure I could have figured it out my own but I could not have figured it out as fast and as the above quote reads "[lawschool is] hard cause there is a buttload of info you have to learn in a relatively short amount of time." This is true and this is why my tutor was worth the investment.

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Devlin
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby Devlin » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:29 am

Shema wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:I don't really see how a tutor would help. Law school isn't hard because the concepts are too complicated to figure out on your own. It's hard cause there is a buttload of info you have to learn in a relatively short amount of time. Is the tutor going to help you cram?


This comment is wrong in this sense: My tutor taught me the black letter law (and explained the professors policy and theories) before I learned them in class using previous 2L/3L outlines so I did not have to cram and in fact had tons more time to do what really sets you apart.... WRITE PRACTICE EXAMS AND GET FEEDBACK



You could have spent less than $100 on supplements and received this same information.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:35 pm

Devlin wrote:
Shema wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:I don't really see how a tutor would help. Law school isn't hard because the concepts are too complicated to figure out on your own. It's hard cause there is a buttload of info you have to learn in a relatively short amount of time. Is the tutor going to help you cram?


This comment is wrong in this sense: My tutor taught me the black letter law (and explained the professors policy and theories) before I learned them in class using previous 2L/3L outlines so I did not have to cram and in fact had tons more time to do what really sets you apart.... WRITE PRACTICE EXAMS AND GET FEEDBACK



You could have spent less than $100 on supplements and received this same information.

To be fair, the supplements wouldn't have the inside information about what a given professor looks for that this tutor appears to have had (it also sounds like the tutor had the previous 2L/3L outlines?). It sounds like the tutor was like a supplement keyed specifically to the law school in question.

I still personally wouldn't bother, but it sounds a little different from using supplements.

Shema
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby Shema » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:57 pm

A. Nony Mouse is exactly right about the distinction between a supplement and a tutor and in the fact that it is not for everyone and if so you shouldn't bother.
You could have spent less than $100 on supplements and received this same information.[/quote]

To Devlin's point, for me it was about opportunity cost and the cost of the tutor outweighed the career cost of staying at a lower tier school for three years of tuition. I transferred from Loyola to Michigan and was also accepted into USC so I am happy with my result. But to your point regarding supplements, yes and no. Yes, the black letter law and explanations of it could have been found in supplements. No, the policies and theories my Professor would use in class could not be found in supplements nor could the supplements target the areas and rules of law my specific professor would focus on in class which means that supplements could not have prepared me as well for the exams I would take. However, my tutor (only because of having had years of experience at my law school and with its professors) could. Also few supplements can help with exam writing and even E&E's questions are not so similar to the exam fact patterns written by law professors which tend to vary pre professor. Supplements can do the job but they cannot do as good a job as someone who knows the class and the professor and can give you feedback on your exam writing. Admittedly there are not too many such tutors around but if you can find one it can be a major help. I even knew a student who would hire past students who had taken their same course and performed highest on the exam. This worked pretty well for him and he aced most classes. So if finding a tutor with specific experience in your school is impossible look into that. If paid enough a 2L or 3L will sit down with you and explain how to approach the exam, case law, theory, and approach step by step. But if you just ask them for tips they will simply share their outline and a few anecdotes.

Also we should be fair, less than $100 is a stretch unless all the supplements are used and severely highlighted. I agree there is a savings in that approach but it is not that BIG of a savings.

Still, in fairness to your point the tutor option is expensive and must be considered in light of a student's individual resources but for me it just made sense.

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Devlin
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby Devlin » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:20 pm

Fair enough.

Also, before you jump the gun and get a tutor I would see if your 1L classes have tutors.


At my school all of our 1L courses have tutors. I'm actually going to be a tutor for a 1L course next year and I will be able to give the insight to the professor. However, problem w/ this is, as I mentioned, is everyone will have access to the tutors.

mr.hands
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby mr.hands » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:37 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:I don't really see how a tutor would help. Law school isn't hard because the concepts are too complicated to figure out on your own. It's hard cause there is a buttload of info you have to learn in a relatively short amount of time. Is the tutor going to help you cram?


Agreed. Learning the info isn't the hard part. Everyone knows the material and everyone has a solid outline. Having a tutor teach you the black letter law is a waste of time.

Just get outlines from upperclassmen and ask them about your proffessor's preferences

GouldGirl
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby GouldGirl » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:38 pm

mr.hands wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:I don't really see how a tutor would help. Law school isn't hard because the concepts are too complicated to figure out on your own. It's hard cause there is a buttload of info you have to learn in a relatively short amount of time. Is the tutor going to help you cram?


Agreed. Learning the info isn't the hard part. Everyone knows the material and everyone has a solid outline. Having a tutor teach you the black letter law is a waste of time.

Just get outlines from upperclassmen and ask them about your proffessor's preferences


To each his own. But this response assumes that all a tutor does is introduce black letter law. My tutor had me writing practice exams in two weeks (started in September) and gave me detailed feedback. I also finished outlining earlier (end of October) so all November I was writing exams under time conditions. If upperclass outlines and answers regarding your professors' preferences can get you to that outcome then I'm all for it. It is about finding the right tutor that approaches this from an exam perspective and not just some avatar version of an E&E.

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stillwater
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby stillwater » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:31 am

GouldGirl wrote:
mr.hands wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:I don't really see how a tutor would help. Law school isn't hard because the concepts are too complicated to figure out on your own. It's hard cause there is a buttload of info you have to learn in a relatively short amount of time. Is the tutor going to help you cram?


Agreed. Learning the info isn't the hard part. Everyone knows the material and everyone has a solid outline. Having a tutor teach you the black letter law is a waste of time.

Just get outlines from upperclassmen and ask them about your proffessor's preferences


To each his own. But this response assumes that all a tutor does is introduce black letter law. My tutor had me writing practice exams in two weeks (started in September) and gave me detailed feedback. I also finished outlining earlier (end of October) so all November I was writing exams under time conditions. If upperclass outlines and answers regarding your professors' preferences can get you to that outcome then I'm all for it. It is about finding the right tutor that approaches this from an exam perspective and not just some avatar version of an E&E.


practice exams are a flame. just chill on dem supps. oh, making your own outlines are a flame too.

GouldGirl
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby GouldGirl » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:49 am

practice exams are a flame. just chill on dem supps. oh, making your own outlines are a flame too.[/quote]

Translation please

mr.hands
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby mr.hands » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:00 am

GouldGirl wrote:
mr.hands wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:I don't really see how a tutor would help. Law school isn't hard because the concepts are too complicated to figure out on your own. It's hard cause there is a buttload of info you have to learn in a relatively short amount of time. Is the tutor going to help you cram?


Agreed. Learning the info isn't the hard part. Everyone knows the material and everyone has a solid outline. Having a tutor teach you the black letter law is a waste of time.

Just get outlines from upperclassmen and ask them about your proffessor's preferences


To each his own. But this response assumes that all a tutor does is introduce black letter law. My tutor had me writing practice exams in two weeks (started in September) and gave me detailed feedback. I also finished outlining earlier (end of October) so all November I was writing exams under time conditions. If upperclass outlines and answers regarding your professors' preferences can get you to that outcome then I'm all for it. It is about finding the right tutor that approaches this from an exam perspective and not just some avatar version of an E&E.


Yeah but you shouldn't have to pay for most of this. Get someone else's outlines, find tests online, take them w a couple friends. That's all free

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby rickgrimes69 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:30 pm

Shema wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:I don't really see how a tutor would help. Law school isn't hard because the concepts are too complicated to figure out on your own. It's hard cause there is a buttload of info you have to learn in a relatively short amount of time. Is the tutor going to help you cram?


This comment is wrong in this sense: My tutor taught me the black letter law (and explained the professors policy and theories) before I learned them in class using previous 2L/3L outlines so I did not have to cram and in fact had tons more time to do what really sets you apart.... WRITE PRACTICE EXAMS AND GET FEEDBACK

I am glad most law school students were too arrogant to work with a tutor when I was a 1L. The perception among 1Ls that the "concepts are not too complicated to figure out on your own" is exactly how I was able to set myself apart on the exam. I still had to work my butt off but I was humble enough to get a "tutor" because the advantage was more important than the label. Sure I could have figured it out my own but I could not have figured it out as fast and as the above quote reads "[lawschool is] hard cause there is a buttload of info you have to learn in a relatively short amount of time." This is true and this is why my tutor was worth the investment.


That's what upperclassmen outlines, supplements, and Google are for. Law school isn't teaching you groundbreaking legal concepts, especially in 1L. Everything you're learning has been taught to others before. I cannot for the life of me figure out what a tutor will teach you that you can't learn for free or a lot cheaper elsewhere.

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stillwater
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby stillwater » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:35 pm

also, the tutor isnt your professor. wht the tutor values and what the prof does will likely be different

Shema
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby Shema » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:46 pm

Yeah but you shouldn't have to pay for most of this. Get someone else's outlines, find tests online, take them w a couple friends. That's all free[/quote]

There is no such thing as a free lunch.. economics 101 so the idea of what one "should not have to pay for" is pretty far removed from reality considering what we pay for our legal education. Taking exams with a couple of friends means that you are taking exams around reading period and not weeks ahead because your friends like most LS students outline at the end of November. I opted to work with someone with more experience. But I get it. It cost money. But what is the cost of not being at the op of your class and does that cost outweigh the cost of private services?

Shema
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby Shema » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:13 pm

stillwater wrote:also, the tutor isnt your professor. wht the tutor values and what the prof does will likely be different


Stillwater makes a wonderful point my tutor only worked out because of direct experience with my professors and their exam styles. An upperclassmen would not have the time or interest to work through the details of preparing for a professor they may have taken in the past and come up with approaches that fit my learning style. If seeking out a tutor many questions should be raised regarding their DIRECT experience with your class and your professors. There were 2 instances when my tutor had not worked with my professor. In that case the strategy was to help me finish outlining by middle of OCT so that I could begin writing exams and going to office hours for feedback. There was not difference in my exam performance so I think that the key is finding the right tutor. At the same time one should note that Tutors are outside the norm at law schools and I am not at all surprised to hear so many students turned off by the idea. Most Americans view tutoring as something reserved for students that "need help" or "can't cut it". Interestingly in other countries tutors are thought to be a luxury reserved for the elite and their children. For me a tutor was about garnering an academic advantage in a bleak job market.

gouldzlaw
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Re: Tutors for 1L

Postby gouldzlaw » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:40 pm

GouldGirl wrote:
mr.hands wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:I don't really see how a tutor would help. Law school isn't hard because the concepts are too complicated to figure out on your own. It's hard cause there is a buttload of info you have to learn in a relatively short amount of time. Is the tutor going to help you cram?


Agreed. Learning the info isn't the hard part. Everyone knows the material and everyone has a solid outline. Having a tutor teach you the black letter law is a waste of time.

Just get outlines from upperclassmen and ask them about your proffessor's preferences


To each his own. But this response assumes that all a tutor does is introduce black letter law. My tutor had me writing practice exams in two weeks (started in September) and gave me detailed feedback. I also finished outlining earlier (end of October) so all November I was writing exams under time conditions. If upperclass outlines and answers regarding your professors' preferences can get you to that outcome then I'm all for it. It is about finding the right tutor that approaches this from an exam perspective and not just some avatar version of an E&E.


Are you still in contact with your tutor? I'm at USC law now and would be interested in learning more about your tutor. Please send me a message when you see this.

Thanks!




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