Navy OCS before Law School

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SemperLegal
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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby SemperLegal » Sat May 04, 2013 11:18 pm

J-e-L-L-o wrote:
lawschoolresearch wrote:What are your thoughts on MOS options as a naval officer? Does anyone have any experience with these?

Surface Warfare Officer
Supply Corps Officer
Naval Flight Officer

Thank you


Honestly, if I was you I would do Supply Corps. No worries about getting killed. Pretty much a desk assignment. You will get experience managing supplies and shipping worldwide. They also get assigned anywhere and everywhere (which is a plus).

Flight officer I believe is mandatory 8 year commitment. If you can do math and have the vision, probably the best option. Plus you get flight pay. Depending on your grades, you get to pick which platform you want to fly. Try to get the new P-8 or P-3. They are only shore based (never step foot on a ship) and they go EVERYWHERE. Might be harder to get in than the others.



Also, if you are a pilot, you will never be a JAG. They have a policy of almost never releasing officers from flight status (other than to leave the service) due to the massive cost and time that goes into training them. I am not sure if the policy is different for navigators.

Surface Warfare Officers seem pretty legit, and mostly safe aside from a few probably voluntary alternate assignments. Only met a few of them, however.

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby J-e-L-L-o » Sat May 04, 2013 11:23 pm

SemperLegal wrote:
J-e-L-L-o wrote:
lawschoolresearch wrote:What are your thoughts on MOS options as a naval officer? Does anyone have any experience with these?

Surface Warfare Officer
Supply Corps Officer
Naval Flight Officer

Thank you


Honestly, if I was you I would do Supply Corps. No worries about getting killed. Pretty much a desk assignment. You will get experience managing supplies and shipping worldwide. They also get assigned anywhere and everywhere (which is a plus).

Flight officer I believe is mandatory 8 year commitment. If you can do math and have the vision, probably the best option. Plus you get flight pay. Depending on your grades, you get to pick which platform you want to fly. Try to get the new P-8 or P-3. They are only shore based (never step foot on a ship) and they go EVERYWHERE. Might be harder to get in than the others.



Also, if you are a pilot, you will never be a JAG. They have a policy of almost never releasing officers from flight status (other than to leave the service) due to the massive cost and time that goes into training them. I am not sure if the policy is different for navigators.

Surface Warfare Officers seem pretty legit, and mostly safe aside from a few probably voluntary alternate assignments. Only met a few of them, however.


completely forgot that the OP wanted to try to transition to JAG lol.

lawschoolresearch
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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby lawschoolresearch » Tue May 07, 2013 1:30 am

J-e-L-L-o wrote:
lawschoolresearch wrote:What are your thoughts on MOS options as a naval officer? Does anyone have any experience with these?

Surface Warfare Officer
Supply Corps Officer
Naval Flight Officer

Thank you


Honestly, if I was you I would do Supply Corps. No worries about getting killed. Pretty much a desk assignment. You will get experience managing supplies and shipping worldwide. They also get assigned anywhere and everywhere (which is a plus).

Flight officer I believe is mandatory 8 year commitment. If you can do math and have the vision, probably the best option. Plus you get flight pay. Depending on your grades, you get to pick which platform you want to fly. Try to get the new P-8 or P-3. They are only shore based (never step foot on a ship) and they go EVERYWHERE. Might be harder to get in than the others.



Supply Corps seems like a good job, does this translate to supply chain management in the civilian world?

Surface Warfare seems to be the most interesting though.

How much did you travel while being enlisted?

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby twenty » Tue May 07, 2013 2:22 am

lawschoolresearch wrote:Supply Corps seems like a good job, does this translate to supply chain management in the civilian world?


Personal opinion, but Supply Corps has a very unique ability to lateral into contracting positions because the licensing for aquisitions and DAWIA I, II, and III are almost identical. In fact, you may get them in the process.

If you can get out of the military with DAWIA III and military experience to boot, I'd skip law school and make a career out of federal contracting. Salaries start at about 110k a year working 9-5.

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby lawschoolresearch » Tue May 07, 2013 11:29 pm

If you serve in the military before law school, when does one study for the LSAT? Before service, during, or after you get out? Thank you.

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby J-e-L-L-o » Tue May 07, 2013 11:50 pm

lawschoolresearch wrote:
Supply Corps seems like a good job, does this translate to supply chain management in the civilian world?

How much did you travel while being enlisted?


Yes it does. Also shore commands are going into Lean Six Sigma so you have your chance to be trained and certified for yellow, green, and black belt. I was at a shore command where we rebuilt engines and I received my yellow belt and could have gotten my green easy. Black belt consultants in manufacturing industries easily pull 6 figures and travel all over to different sites.

I didn't travel much but it just depends on where and who you get stationed with. I knew people that hated getting deployed twice a year. I only deployed once in 8 years. I was scheduled to go on a world tour from Australia to Barcelona but got pulled off. Still bitter about missing that one.

What people don't understand is the real world experience you gain from the military. It isn't just combat. The trick is to pick a field that has demand for when you get out.

lawschoolresearch wrote:If you serve in the military before law school, when does one study for the LSAT? Before service, during, or after you get out? Thank you.


All 3. You have down time. Even when you are deployed. After your work shift you are off and can do whatever you want, unless you have duty later. If people can get college degrees while serving, studying for an exam is not impossible. While you are in you learn about your job and doing training. Once you get that out of the way, then is the best time to start studying. You can spend up to or over a year in training before you start your first job. So it takes about a year or 2 to become proficient at your rating.

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby sccjnthn » Tue May 07, 2013 11:54 pm

lawschoolresearch wrote:If you serve in the military before law school, when does one study for the LSAT? Before service, during, or after you get out? Thank you.


All 3. You have down time. Even when you are deployed. After your work shift you are off and can do whatever you want, unless you have duty later. If people can get college degrees while serving, studying for an exam is not impossible. While you are in you learn about your job and doing training. Once you get that out of the way, then is the best time to start studying. You can spend up to or over a year in training before you start your first job. So it takes about a year or 2 to become proficient at your rating.[/quote]


Just to echo this I did all my LSAT studying while I was deployed. When you have nothing better to do in your free time studying actually becomes a welcome distraction.

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby SemperLegal » Wed May 08, 2013 3:29 am

I traveled to 13 countries in six years. The only time that I lived one place for more than 3 months was when I was in Iraq.


As for LSAT studying. You will have plenty of time to do so. The military is 99% mind-numbing boredom.

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby lawschoolresearch » Thu May 09, 2013 12:58 am

SemperLegal wrote:I traveled to 13 countries in six years. The only time that I lived one place for more than 3 months was when I was in Iraq.


As for LSAT studying. You will have plenty of time to do so. The military is 99% mind-numbing boredom.


That's a lot of countries, what branch did you serve in? Officer or enlisted? Thank you.

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby lawschoolresearch » Thu May 09, 2013 1:08 am

J-e-L-L-o wrote:
lawschoolresearch wrote:
Supply Corps seems like a good job, does this translate to supply chain management in the civilian world?

How much did you travel while being enlisted?


Yes it does. Also shore commands are going into Lean Six Sigma so you have your chance to be trained and certified for yellow, green, and black belt. I was at a shore command where we rebuilt engines and I received my yellow belt and could have gotten my green easy. Black belt consultants in manufacturing industries easily pull 6 figures and travel all over to different sites.

I didn't travel much but it just depends on where and who you get stationed with. I knew people that hated getting deployed twice a year. I only deployed once in 8 years. I was scheduled to go on a world tour from Australia to Barcelona but got pulled off. Still bitter about missing that one.

What people don't understand is the real world experience you gain from the military. It isn't just combat. The trick is to pick a field that has demand for when you get out.

lawschoolresearch wrote:If you serve in the military before law school, when does one study for the LSAT? Before service, during, or after you get out? Thank you.


All 3. You have down time. Even when you are deployed. After your work shift you are off and can do whatever you want, unless you have duty later. If people can get college degrees while serving, studying for an exam is not impossible. While you are in you learn about your job and doing training. Once you get that out of the way, then is the best time to start studying. You can spend up to or over a year in training before you start your first job. So it takes about a year or 2 to become proficient at your rating.


What kind of background does one need to have be competitive for Supply Corps? Also, is Shore Duty during one's second tour? What does a SWO officer transition into the civilian world?

Learning Lean Six Sigma sounds like it would be an excellent opportunity, is that only available during shore duty?

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby lawschoolresearch » Thu May 09, 2013 1:10 am

Has anyone done a JD/MBA program after serving in the military?

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby twenty » Thu May 09, 2013 2:29 am

lawschoolresearch wrote:What kind of background does one need to have be competitive for Supply Corps?


With Navy, DAWIA II's were getting dropped from selection boards. I'd say COTR certification at the minimum for Army, probably 3 years of contracting experience for every other branch minimum.

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby paul554 » Thu May 09, 2013 7:27 am

lawschoolresearch wrote:Has anyone done a JD/MBA program after serving in the military?

I'm doing a similar JD dual degree program. It's 100% paid for by the GI Bill since I paid out of pocket for my undergrad.

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby Total Litigator » Thu May 09, 2013 8:34 am

twentypercentmore wrote:
Br3v wrote:You can qualify for IBR if you are under the salary requirement even if it's not legal work?


Unless I am very much misunderstanding it, you qualify for IBR and PSLF as long as you're in a public interest position of some kind, be it teaching, lawyering, militarying, etc, and you're under a certain salary threshold. For LRAP, however, you need to be in a JD-required position (for most LRAP programs).



Many, if not most, LRAP programs do not apply to JAG. I'm not sure why, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby twenty » Thu May 09, 2013 11:03 am

Total Litigator wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:
Br3v wrote:You can qualify for IBR if you are under the salary requirement even if it's not legal work?


Unless I am very much misunderstanding it, you qualify for IBR and PSLF as long as you're in a public interest position of some kind, be it teaching, lawyering, militarying, etc, and you're under a certain salary threshold. For LRAP, however, you need to be in a JD-required position (for most LRAP programs).



Many, if not most, LRAP programs do not apply to JAG. I'm not sure why, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.


This strikes me as really wrong, since JAG is pretty much the textbook definition of an LRAP-eligable job. Where are you hearing this?

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby Total Litigator » Thu May 09, 2013 5:03 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:
Total Litigator wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:
Br3v wrote:You can qualify for IBR if you are under the salary requirement even if it's not legal work?


Unless I am very much misunderstanding it, you qualify for IBR and PSLF as long as you're in a public interest position of some kind, be it teaching, lawyering, militarying, etc, and you're under a certain salary threshold. For LRAP, however, you need to be in a JD-required position (for most LRAP programs).



Many, if not most, LRAP programs do not apply to JAG. I'm not sure why, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.


This strikes me as really wrong, since JAG is pretty much the textbook definition of an LRAP-eligable job. Where are you hearing this?


Well shitso, you're actually correct. I had been under the impression that my ("T25") school's LRAP program did not cover JAG, but it does. However, I'm not sure how other schools do it, but the JAG housing allowance will count towards the gross income calculated under my school's LRAP, which could significantly reduce the LRAP payment.

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby twenty » Thu May 09, 2013 8:25 pm

I don't think so -- most schools go by the AGI (I know IBR does), which purposefully excludes non-taxable income.

https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/ ... ncome.html

If your school doesn't go by the AGI, then RUN LIKE HELL because your estimated income can include welfare checks, unemployment benefits, estimated values of gifts, worker's comp, etc. I don't see that happening anywhere but a really crappy TTT though?

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby SemperLegal » Thu May 09, 2013 8:26 pm

Total Litigator wrote:
Well shitso, you're actually correct. I had been under the impression that my ("T25") school's LRAP program did not cover JAG, but it does. However, I'm not sure how other schools do it, but the JAG housing allowance will count towards the gross income calculated under my school's LRAP, which could significantly reduce the LRAP payment.


I would confirm that, for the most point BAH (Base Allowance for Housing) is a total ninja. Its not taxed, as no effect on financial aid, and is excluded from the means test for TANF. I would be surprised if it was included as part of LARP or IBR, since the government views it as a reimbursement for a second home, since where you were inducted from remains your home of record. (At the end of your contract, they will pay for your trip back "home")

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby Burne182 » Thu May 09, 2013 8:32 pm

lawschoolresearch wrote:
J-e-L-L-o wrote:
lawschoolresearch wrote:
Supply Corps seems like a good job, does this translate to supply chain management in the civilian world?

How much did you travel while being enlisted?


Yes it does. Also shore commands are going into Lean Six Sigma so you have your chance to be trained and certified for yellow, green, and black belt. I was at a shore command where we rebuilt engines and I received my yellow belt and could have gotten my green easy. Black belt consultants in manufacturing industries easily pull 6 figures and travel all over to different sites.

I didn't travel much but it just depends on where and who you get stationed with. I knew people that hated getting deployed twice a year. I only deployed once in 8 years. I was scheduled to go on a world tour from Australia to Barcelona but got pulled off. Still bitter about missing that one.

What people don't understand is the real world experience you gain from the military. It isn't just combat. The trick is to pick a field that has demand for when you get out.

lawschoolresearch wrote:If you serve in the military before law school, when does one study for the LSAT? Before service, during, or after you get out? Thank you.


All 3. You have down time. Even when you are deployed. After your work shift you are off and can do whatever you want, unless you have duty later. If people can get college degrees while serving, studying for an exam is not impossible. While you are in you learn about your job and doing training. Once you get that out of the way, then is the best time to start studying. You can spend up to or over a year in training before you start your first job. So it takes about a year or 2 to become proficient at your rating.


What kind of background does one need to have be competitive for Supply Corps? Also, is Shore Duty during one's second tour? What does a SWO officer transition into the civilian world?

Learning Lean Six Sigma sounds like it would be an excellent opportunity, is that only available during shore duty?


I'm a SWO, though I'll be leaving active duty in a couple months. Most of my peers are transitioning into general mgmt positions (at companies like Amazon or P&G). I'm not positive on Supply, but at least as a SWO your first 2 tours (4 years) are at sea. On my first tour I absolutely did not have time to study for the LSAT, but after that it cooled off quite substantially.

Feel free to PM if you have any questions.

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby lawschoolresearch » Thu May 09, 2013 9:27 pm

paul554 wrote:
lawschoolresearch wrote:Has anyone done a JD/MBA program after serving in the military?

I'm doing a similar JD dual degree program. It's 100% paid for by the GI Bill since I paid out of pocket for my undergrad.


Nice! Is it a four program? Did the military experience help with admissions? Is it covered 100% because its instate or did the yellow ribbon cover the difference? Thank you.

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby paul554 » Thu May 09, 2013 10:08 pm

lawschoolresearch wrote:
paul554 wrote:
lawschoolresearch wrote:Has anyone done a JD/MBA program after serving in the military?

I'm doing a similar JD dual degree program. It's 100% paid for by the GI Bill since I paid out of pocket for my undergrad.


Nice! Is it a four program? Did the military experience help with admissions? Is it covered 100% because its instate or did the yellow ribbon cover the difference? Thank you.


4 years, but I start this summer so I can do it in 3 years with maybe a class or two next summer. I can't really say if military experience helped, generally your GPA and entry test counts a lot but I'm in Texas and their very pro-military for most schools here. Also, it is at a public school so everything is covered 100%, I get In state rates since my wife is active military and stationed in Texas.

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby lawschoolresearch » Fri May 10, 2013 6:28 pm

paul554 wrote:
lawschoolresearch wrote:
paul554 wrote:
lawschoolresearch wrote:Has anyone done a JD/MBA program after serving in the military?

I'm doing a similar JD dual degree program. It's 100% paid for by the GI Bill since I paid out of pocket for my undergrad.


Nice! Is it a four program? Did the military experience help with admissions? Is it covered 100% because its instate or did the yellow ribbon cover the difference? Thank you.


4 years, but I start this summer so I can do it in 3 years with maybe a class or two next summer. I can't really say if military experience helped, generally your GPA and entry test counts a lot but I'm in Texas and their very pro-military for most schools here. Also, it is at a public school so everything is covered 100%, I get In state rates since my wife is active military and stationed in Texas.


Whats the transition from military to civilian study been like?

lawschoolresearch
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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby lawschoolresearch » Sun May 26, 2013 11:39 am

Question: I'm deciding between SWO and NFO.

Both jobs are interesting, though I'm leaning towards NFO. My concern is the active duty time commitment, 6 years (NFO) vs 4 for (SWO). With SWO I would finish active duty at 30yrs, while as an NFO I would finish at age 32.

My long term goal is JAG. As a SWO I would finish Law School at Age 33. As a NFO, I would finish law school at Age 35.

Can anyone comment on this? Would I be able to be commissioned as a JAG at age 35? Also, if not selected for JAG, would I be able to regain a commission as a naval officer?

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby SemperLegal » Sun May 26, 2013 11:51 am

lawschoolresearch wrote:Question: I'm deciding between SWO and NFO.

Both jobs are interesting, though I'm leaning towards NFO. My concern is the active duty time commitment, 6 years (NFO) vs 4 for (SWO). With SWO I would finish active duty at 30yrs, while as an NFO I would finish at age 32.

My long term goal is JAG. As a SWO I would finish Law School at Age 33. As a NFO, I would finish law school at Age 35.

Can anyone comment on this? Would I be able to be commissioned as a JAG at age 35? Also, if not selected for JAG, would I be able to regain a commission as a naval officer?



I would be a SWO if you absolutely want to be a JAG. First, less time to get sidetracked by an interesting, but not as fulfilling "B" Billet (ie At year 5 they might offer a two year tour as a liaison officer, then afterwards as an instructor, etc. Next thing you know, its 2028).

Also, if I understand correctly, is the Navy's version of an infantry officer, its the basic building block of the officer corps. Not only will it be instrumental in later promotions (although the NFO Mafia is pretty strong as well), it will give you a fairly wide survey of what the Navy has to offer. In the Air Wing, you are kind of insulated from everyone but other wingies. If you do a float as a SWO, you will get a taste of everything that the Navy has to offer, preparing you better to serve your CO.

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Re: Navy OCS before Law School

Postby Cravin » Sun May 26, 2013 1:08 pm

SemperLegal wrote:
lawschoolresearch wrote:Question: I'm deciding between SWO and NFO.

Both jobs are interesting, though I'm leaning towards NFO. My concern is the active duty time commitment, 6 years (NFO) vs 4 for (SWO). With SWO I would finish active duty at 30yrs, while as an NFO I would finish at age 32.

My long term goal is JAG. As a SWO I would finish Law School at Age 33. As a NFO, I would finish law school at Age 35.

Can anyone comment on this? Would I be able to be commissioned as a JAG at age 35? Also, if not selected for JAG, would I be able to regain a commission as a naval officer?



I would be a SWO if you absolutely want to be a JAG. First, less time to get sidetracked by an interesting, but not as fulfilling "B" Billet (ie At year 5 they might offer a two year tour as a liaison officer, then afterwards as an instructor, etc. Next thing you know, its 2028).

Also, if I understand correctly, is the Navy's version of an infantry officer, its the basic building block of the officer corps. Not only will it be instrumental in later promotions (although the NFO Mafia is pretty strong as well), it will give you a fairly wide survey of what the Navy has to offer. In the Air Wing, you are kind of insulated from everyone but other wingies. If you do a float as a SWO, you will get a taste of everything that the Navy has to offer, preparing you better to serve your CO.


A couple of things to add - First, the aviation commitment doesn't start until you finish flight school. That's usually about 2-3 years from the date you start OCS. Second, all three major warfare communities in the Navy (surface, aviation, subs) are very insular. You won't learn anything about the others regardless of which one you pick (nor will you want to).

If you're going to do it to set yourself up for free education/post-military career, pick SWO. It has a shorter commitment and you're more likely to want to bail when its over. Supply (non-line) specialties can set you up for a specific post-navy career (like working in defense contracts), but you might be more across-the-board attractive to many employers coming from an unrestricted line community.




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