Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

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Barack O'Drama
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Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:58 pm

Just a curious 0L here...

Wondering how some of you law students felt about Work Ethic vs. Intelligence in LS?

What is going to serve one better grade wise? Sure, a combination of both would be ideal, however, which is more important overall?

2nd Question...

This girl on F.B is bragging she is going to NYLS... I feel bad, however, I'm not going to bother saying a thing; simply because she is so braggadocios and clueless she deserves it. Not to mention she is funding it all with loans (So my gf a "friend" with her says) . I figured maybe you guys would get a laugh. Sadly, it has become all to common. Months before she had bragged she PT at 160 before she took the LSAT. If you got the money and your family is paying, well what does it matter? But on loans... What is so hard about simply Googling the school before you apply or choose to go? I am 20, a sophomore, and do nothing but just that. How do these people that are not smart enough to research (or have astounding cognitive dissonance) make it in LS?

Thanks guys

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby moneybagsphd » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:03 am

1st Q: Work ethic.

rad lulz
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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:12 am

Option C, exam writing talent

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:16 am

Hmmm...I guess that makes sense

So what does "exam writing talent" entail? What kind of writing skills are required to be a good LS exam writer? Sure typing speed, and memorization of facts to give you speed... But what are some other maybe not so obvious things?

And thank you both for the replies!

rad lulz
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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:17 am

Ability to quickly apply the law to facts (spot and analyze issues) and write it in a way that the professor likes

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hephaestus
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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby hephaestus » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:22 am

GregoryADevine wrote:Hmmm...I guess that makes sense

So what does "exam writing talent" entail? What kind of writing skills are required to be a good LS exam writer? Sure typing speed, and memorization of facts to give you speed... But what are some other maybe not so obvious things?

And thank you both for the replies!

Read getting to maybe the summer before law school. It's a decent guide to exam writing.
The problem with work ethic in law school is that everyone works hard because good grades are scarce and jobs are scarcer. So it's harder to work harder than everyone else when the rest of your class is also in the library until late at night everyday etc.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:24 am

rad lulz wrote:Ability to quickly apply the law to facts (spot and analyze issues) and write it in a way that the professor likes


Thank you, veery insightful! I've been wondering about that for a while

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:26 am

ImNoScar wrote:
GregoryADevine wrote:Hmmm...I guess that makes sense

So what does "exam writing talent" entail? What kind of writing skills are required to be a good LS exam writer? Sure typing speed, and memorization of facts to give you speed... But what are some other maybe not so obvious things?

And thank you both for the replies!

Read getting to maybe the summer before law school. It's a decent guide to exam writing.
The problem with work ethic in law school is that everyone works hard because good grades are scarce and jobs are scarcer. So it's harder to work harder than everyone else when the rest of your class is also in the library until late at night everyday etc.


Thanks! I've heard about that book quite a lot and surely plan on reading it summer before LS. Do all people really study that hard? Like M-F and weekends in the library? I know it sounds kind of vague. But I hear such mixed things...Memorization isn't important application is... Then I hear the opposite. And I hear some people say they treat it like a 9-5 and other study 80 hours a week. What is the safe bet? M-F 9-5 or M-F 9-9 etc..?
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby quakeroats » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:26 am

rad lulz wrote:Option C, exam writing talent


This is essentially the secret to law school. Except it isn't really talent so much as practicing until you can take exams well.

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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:31 am

quakeroats wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Option C, exam writing talent


This is essentially the secret to law school. Except it isn't really talent so much as practicing until you can take exams well.


This makes me feel a bit better! So how much does being a good writer help? I mean I assume flowery language and other B.S isnt going to serve you well. I am a history major in a pre-law program that will let me go to Albany Law School a year early (Which I am not doing because its a scam via UAlbany) I just wonder what type of writing will be helpful. Being concise?

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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby bk1 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:37 am

GregoryADevine wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Option C, exam writing talent


This is essentially the secret to law school. Except it isn't really talent so much as practicing until you can take exams well.


This makes me feel a bit better!

Don't let it since all your classmates will be practicing hard to learn it as well and then you will be graded on a curve against them.

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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby quakeroats » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:43 am

GregoryADevine wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Option C, exam writing talent


This is essentially the secret to law school. Except it isn't really talent so much as practicing until you can take exams well.


This makes me feel a bit better! So how much does being a good writer help? I mean I assume flowery language and other B.S isnt going to serve you well. I am a history major in a pre-law program that will let me go to Albany Law School a year early (Which I am not doing because its a scam via UAlbany) I just wonder what type of writing will be helpful. Being concise?


Writing well doesn't matter for the exam. Read this: http://www.amazon.com/Open-Book-Succeed ... 009SMRGBW/

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:46 am

bk1 wrote:
GregoryADevine wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Option C, exam writing talent


This is essentially the secret to law school. Except it isn't really talent so much as practicing until you can take exams well.


This makes me feel a bit better!

Don't let it since all your classmates will be practicing hard to learn it as well and then you will be graded on a curve against them.


Good point man! I'm just someone who will near kill myself in the library studying if it will get me the better grades. I am willing to do whatever it takes, work as hard as I have to, spend my entire life to get the better grades. There is oddly something about the curve and competition I love. Of course I am not a LS student and probably being a bit naive.. However, I am masochistic to some extent and if it takes your entire life in the library to get the A, so be it. I work so hard in UG and there are no curves and I wish there was sometimes. Anyways, Thanks!

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:49 am

quakeroats wrote:
GregoryADevine wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Option C, exam writing talent


This is essentially the secret to law school. Except it isn't really talent so much as practicing until you can take exams well.


This makes me feel a bit better! So how much does being a good writer help? I mean I assume flowery language and other B.S isnt going to serve you well. I am a history major in a pre-law program that will let me go to Albany Law School a year early (Which I am not doing because its a scam via UAlbany) I just wonder what type of writing will be helpful. Being concise?


Writing well doesn't matter for the exam. Read this: http://www.amazon.com/Open-Book-Succeed ... 009SMRGBW/


Thank you man! I promise you I am ordering both of these and reading them before LS. I just think its funny how universities make it seem like a History/English background will help you. Seems largely a waste with this new insight. Might as well major in Communications and Sports Management and gets A's while spending the time studying for LSAT and reading those books.

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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby EvilClinton » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:54 am

GregoryADevine wrote:Just a curious 0L here...

Wondering how some of you law students felt about Work Ethic vs. Intelligence in LS?

What is going to serve one better grade wise? Sure, a combination of both would be ideal, however, which is more important overall?

2nd Question...

This girl on F.B is bragging she is going to NYLS... I feel bad, however, I'm not going to bother saying a thing; simply because she is so braggadocios and clueless she deserves it. Not to mention she is funding it all with loans (So my gf a "friend" with her says) . I figured maybe you guys would get a laugh. Sadly, it has become all to common. Months before she had bragged she PT at 160 before she took the LSAT. If you got the money and your family is paying, well what does it matter? But on loans... What is so hard about simply Googling the school before you apply or choose to go? I am 20, a sophomore, and do nothing but just that. How do these people that are not smart enough to research (or have astounding cognitive dissonance) make it in LS?

Thanks guys


1. Option 3 - Luck

2. Kill yourself (you, not the girl going to NYLS)

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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby EvilClinton » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:58 am

GregoryADevine wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Option C, exam writing talent


This is essentially the secret to law school. Except it isn't really talent so much as practicing until you can take exams well.


This makes me feel a bit better! So how much does being a good writer help? I mean I assume flowery language and other B.S isnt going to serve you well. I am a history major in a pre-law program that will let me go to Albany Law School a year early (Which I am not doing because its a scam via UAlbany) I just wonder what type of writing will be helpful. Being concise?

If you have a technical writing background that might help.

My best exams were something like:

Issue 1

A should consider X, but also Y, and probably Z as well. Ultimately W makes the most sense because Q, R, and S.

Issue 2...

ETC.

It is not complicated. But it follows a very logical pattern. The rest is just tailoring your points or writing style to the style of the professor.

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quakeroats
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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby quakeroats » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:03 am

GregoryADevine wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
GregoryADevine wrote:
quakeroats wrote:Option C, exam writing talent


This is essentially the secret to law school. Except it isn't really talent so much as practicing until you can take exams well.


This makes me feel a bit better! So how much does being a good writer help? I mean I assume flowery language and other B.S isnt going to serve you well. I am a history major in a pre-law program that will let me go to Albany Law School a year early (Which I am not doing because its a scam via UAlbany) I just wonder what type of writing will be helpful. Being concise?


Writing well doesn't matter for the exam. Read this: http://www.amazon.com/Open-Book-Succeed ... 009SMRGBW/[hank you man! I promise you I am ordering both of these and reading them before LS. I just think its funny how universities make it seem like a History/English background will help you. Seems largely a waste with this new insight. Might as well major in Communications and Sports Management and gets A's while spending the time studying for LSAT and reading those books.


It's not a waste at all, it just isn't going to be the factor that gets you to the top of the class. Law school success is a one-year problem. Think of it as the written portion of a really long job interview. You do well in law school so you can get a good job, but that's it. As soon as you get your firm job, you can pick up everything you've learned in your first year and throw it away. Don't think of the skills you've developed as a waste. If anything, the next year of your life is the waste.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:07 am

EvilClinton wrote:
GregoryADevine wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Option C, exam writing talent


This is essentially the secret to law school. Except it isn't really talent so much as practicing until you can take exams well.


This makes me feel a bit better! So how much does being a good writer help? I mean I assume flowery language and other B.S isnt going to serve you well. I am a history major in a pre-law program that will let me go to Albany Law School a year early (Which I am not doing because its a scam via UAlbany) I just wonder what type of writing will be helpful. Being concise?

If you have a technical writing background that might help.

My best exams were something like:

Issue 1

A should consider X, but also Y, and probably Z as well. Ultimately W makes the most sense because Q, R, and S.

Issue 2...

ETC.

It is not complicated. But it follows a very logical pattern. The rest is just tailoring your points or writing style to the style of the professor.


This +100! That kind of really clarifies what I was looking for. Thank you EvilClinton! I never had really understood a LS exam in that context. Part of me can't help feel fooled of all the Pre-Law BS they tell you in U.G. As if being able to write a great History research paper would help. Reminiscent, to me at least, of a Philosophical logic/Reasoning class I took Freshman year. In any case, I do like History and it requires me to keep my reading and writing skills up to par; possibly not a complete waste in that regard.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: Law School Work Ethic vs. Intelligence?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:12 am

This is essentially the secret to law school. Except it isn't really talent so much as practicing until you can take exams well.[/quote]

This makes me feel a bit better! So how much does being a good writer help? I mean I assume flowery language and other B.S isnt going to serve you well. I am a history major in a pre-law program that will let me go to Albany Law School a year early (Which I am not doing because its a scam via UAlbany) I just wonder what type of writing will be helpful. Being concise?[/quote]

Writing well doesn't matter for the exam. Read this: http://www.amazon.com/Open-Book-Succeed ... 009SMRGBW/[hank you man! I promise you I am ordering both of these and reading them before LS. I just think its funny how universities make it seem like a History/English background will help you. Seems largely a waste with this new insight. Might as well major in Communications and Sports Management and gets A's while spending the time studying for LSAT and reading those books.[/quote]

It's not a waste at all, it just isn't going to be the factor that gets you to the top of the class. Law school success is a one-year problem. Think of it as the written portion of a really long job interview. You do well in law school so you can get a good job, but that's it. As soon as you get your firm job, you can pick up everything you've learned in your first year and throw it away. Don't think of the skills you've developed as a waste. If anything, the next year of your life is the waste.[/quote]

Thanks man :) Kind of puts that into perspective nicely! I will do just that and look at it accordingly as you stated. I mean I just find reading and writing papers something I enjoy (Although, maybe not always the subjects specifically) much more than math sets or whatever other majors do




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