Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

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TheBiggerMediocre
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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby TheBiggerMediocre » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:39 pm

@alwayssunnyinfl I already have decided to challenge myself by taking an extra class every semester so far I am up to 7 consisting of mid to upper level courses which aren't interrelated, and yes I will be taking the LSAT soon.

@jwinaz well of course, I completely agree, I think the LSAT will be a challenge.

@Desert Fox that conflicts with all other arguments made in this thread and I know for a fact that it isn't true

@Scotusnerd I have been gradually becoming more hardworking and will take your advice.

@spleenworship I don't think you can be too smart for law school out of undergrad.

@scifiguy I fully believe that if I was a foot taller I would have been drafted and currently in the NBA. >95% of people cannot get a PHD in math and science. But i also think anybody can become rich but thats a completely different different

@spleenworship I don't think its 80% that are simply close minded in that sense, but definitely at our age. thats why it takes some people until they are 30 to figure out what they want to do in life.

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BullShitWithBravado
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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby BullShitWithBravado » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:51 pm

Just start making an effort to challenge yourself intellectually and you will notice how much "smarter" you become after a while.

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spleenworship
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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby spleenworship » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:54 pm

TheBiggerMediocre wrote:


@spleenworship I don't think you can be too smart for law school out of undergrad.



You absolutely can. I know people who are way smarter than me in my law school who are just out of undergrad (plus maybe a year off to work or travel). And frankly, law school is a joke. Compared to a PhD program or medical school it just doesn't mean much. Can you write down the BLL on an outline? Can you read the problem quickly? Can you then apply the BLL from your outline to the problem? Three yeses and you are above median. Mozel Tov! It has nothing to do with being smart, really.

TheBiggerMediocre wrote:

@spleenworship I don't think its 80% that are simply close minded in that sense, but definitely at our age. thats why it takes some people until they are 30 to figure out what they want to do in life.


No. Get a job as a bartender or in tech support or in any job where members of the general public come to talk to you about their problems for a while. Trust me.... most people are just too stupid to handle something as complicated as grad school. Hell, only the dumbing down of higher education allows the bottom third of any state undergrad to graduate. That said, maybe 80% was a bit high. Call it 50%. 50% of the population is simply unable to handle the ambiguity required in the highest levels of thought. Try to explain to your local fast food manager how electrons are both particles and waves and see what happens.

09042014
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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:57 pm

scifiguy wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:85% on the SAT should get you around 85% on the LSAT. Maybe a bit worse. Maybe a bit better if you fucked up the Math on the SAT because there is no math on LSAT.


Any stats that back this up, DF?


People score similarly on standardized tests across the board. I've never seen anything on sat v. lsat specifically.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby Dr. Dre » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:04 pm

The SAT is a 3rd grade math test and 6th grade vocab test. In no way does it compare to the LSAT.

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:06 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:The SAT is a 3rd grade math test and 6th grade vocab test. In no way does it compare to the LSAT.

The only reason the lsat is harder is that people actually study for it.

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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:10 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:The SAT is a 3rd grade math test and 6th grade vocab test. In no way does it compare to the LSAT.


The LSAT uses easier vocabulary and tests straightforward logic and reading. There isn't even one challenging LSAT question.

jwinaz
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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby jwinaz » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:18 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Cox_(physicist)

If you guys are familiar with Brian Cox, he was "bad" at math in high school and got a D in Trig.

He said he realized later that you needed to "practice" at it in order to get good. I don't know enough to say whether or not anyone could become a physicist Ph.D. via hard work, but practice and hard work do go a long way.

I've heard some say that you need about a minimum IQ of 120 to do theoretical math (at the Ph.D. level), but don't know how accurate that is.

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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby jwinaz » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:21 pm

Actually, I thhink it was Charles Murray, controversial author of The Bell Curve, who gave the 120 figure above now that I think of it!

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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby jwinaz » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:24 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:The SAT is a 3rd grade math test and 6th grade vocab test. In no way does it compare to the LSAT.


The LSAT uses easier vocabulary and tests straightforward logic and reading. There isn't even one challenging LSAT question.


How did you score in your cold diagnostic?

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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby jwinaz » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:28 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:The SAT is a 3rd grade math test and 6th grade vocab test. In no way does it compare to the LSAT.


This is obviously hyperbole.

The math is up through Alg 2 and Geo I believe and the Verbal is about 11/12th grade-ish. I have a younger brother who literally just took his SATs, so I have some frame of reference. I saw some of the words he was studying and they're not 6th grade level. lol. :lol:

He was flashcarding words like tenuous, obviate, elicit, illicit, palliate, abate, obsequious, (I had to look that one up myself!), etc. ...
Last edited by jwinaz on Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:29 pm

jwinaz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:The SAT is a 3rd grade math test and 6th grade vocab test. In no way does it compare to the LSAT.


The LSAT uses easier vocabulary and tests straightforward logic and reading. There isn't even one challenging LSAT question.


How did you score in your cold diagnostic?


I never did one, but the first couple sections were pretty terrible because I didn't realize it was supposed to be time crunched. I skimmed the Bibles (I think they are pretty useless if you don't find the material difficult) and started off around 170, got a 176 after doing about three weeks of fairly hard prep testing.

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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:30 pm

I hadn't read a book for 4 years before I took the LSAT and I got -1 on RC. I dare someone to call it a challenging test.

jwinaz
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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby jwinaz » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:33 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I hadn't read a book for 4 years before I took the LSAT and I got -1 on RC. I dare someone to call it a challenging test.


Hmmm....did you take any logic classes in college? Without knowing basic rules of formal logic....like how conditionals work, I don't see how a person could just "get it." You have to know some rules.

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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:36 pm

jwinaz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I hadn't read a book for 4 years before I took the LSAT and I got -1 on RC. I dare someone to call it a challenging test.


Hmmm....did you take any logic classes in college?


No, just EE and CS classes which used mathematical logic.

The logic on the LSAT isn't formal logic and it's definitely not mathematical logic.

It's more logical reasoning.

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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:38 pm

I'd imagine the LSAT SAT correlation might be offset a bit because the LSAT is only taken by people who are nearly done with a college education. Which is probably better at tests than the general public.

And when I mean similar, I mean pretty broadly similar.

jwinaz
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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby jwinaz » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:39 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
jwinaz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I hadn't read a book for 4 years before I took the LSAT and I got -1 on RC. I dare someone to call it a challenging test.


Hmmm....did you take any logic classes in college?


No, just EE and CS classes which used mathematical logic.

The logic on the LSAT isn't formal logic and it's definitely not mathematical logic.

It's more logical reasoning.


No, I m eant the conditionals. That is formal logic. You need it for both lgoic games and LR.

You don't get as in depth as a full on logic class, but you still need to know how some of the basic rules work for a good deal of questions. But yeah, it's probably more informal logical reasoning thean formal in the LR.

That's pretty good then if you started at 170!

I dunno....you take the SATs and LSAT at diff. phases in life (with diff. amts of acquired skills and info.).

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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby jwinaz » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:41 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I'd imagine the LSAT SAT correlation might be offset a bit because the LSAT is only taken by people who are nearly done with a college education. Which is probably better at tests than the general public.

And when I mean similar, I mean pretty broadly similar.


Yeah.

And one last thing. MOST people do NOT get 170+'s. Something like 2% of LSAT takers achieve that. So, I suppose for many takers it's not that easy. :mrgreen:

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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:43 pm

jwinaz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I'd imagine the LSAT SAT correlation might be offset a bit because the LSAT is only taken by people who are nearly done with a college education. Which is probably better at tests than the general public.

And when I mean similar, I mean pretty broadly similar.


Yeah.

And one last thing. MOST people do NOT get 170+'s. Something like 2% of LSAT takers achieve that. So, I suppose for many takers it's not that easy. :mrgreen:


And most people can't hack Algebra 2 and Trig for the SAT. And the vocabulary is really tough to learn if you had a poor education. And it's vaguely racist.

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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby jwinaz » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:48 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
jwinaz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I'd imagine the LSAT SAT correlation might be offset a bit because the LSAT is only taken by people who are nearly done with a college education. Which is probably better at tests than the general public.

And when I mean similar, I mean pretty broadly similar.


Yeah.

And one last thing. MOST people do NOT get 170+'s. Something like 2% of LSAT takers achieve that. So, I suppose for many takers it's not that easy. :mrgreen:


And most people can't hack Algebra 2 and Trig for the SAT. And the vocabulary is really tough to learn if you had a poor education. And it's vaguely racist.



Vocab is mostly memorization,b ut I honestly found the words tougher than what I remembered when I took the SAT. My younger brother in 11th Grade just took his two weeks ago. I saw the words and they were tougher than what I remembered (probably b/c I didn't study much for it!).

Volume of words can be tough, b/c they only test you on a few of them on the actual SAT, but the number you need to know is quite enormous (if you want to score high)....You do need to know some tough words. I had to look some up myself (like obsequious, which I posted above).

I don't know about Alg2, Trig, and Geo. The thing is you learn that IN high school right around the time you're going to take the SAT, so there's not the same excuse I feel with the LSAT, where you may have had zero logic courses. ....

Makes me want to bust out a SAT to see how I'd do now!! :P

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:05 pm

LOL

You don't need formal logic, and you certainly DO NOT need a natural predisposition to mathematics, to do well on the LSAT. I'm a run of the mill B- student at CC and then Giant State U and I got a 171 after studying for six months. It's a test that tests you on how well you can study for the test and not get distracted by bullshit. Don't blow any of this up to be more than it really is.

jwinaz
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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby jwinaz » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:06 pm

Sample SAT Verbal Question:

Bolstered by his unflagging determination and ______ physical preparation, Tom Whittaker became the first amputee to successfully climb to the summit of Mt. Everest.

a.) fortuitous
b.) assiduous
c.) heedless
d.) expeditious
e.) pedantic

Here's a Math one:

The projected sales volume of a video game cartridge is given by the function S(p) = 3000/2p + a, where s is the number of catridges sold, in thousands; P is the price per cartridge, in dollars; and a is a constant. If according to the projections, 100,000 cartridges are sold at $10 per cartridge, how many cartridges will be sold at $20 per cartridge?

a.) 20,000
b.) 50,000
c.) 60,000
d.) 160,000
e.) 200,000


Anyone want to go for these?

jwinaz
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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby jwinaz » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:11 pm

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:LOL

You don't need formal logic, and you certainly DO NOT need a natural predisposition to mathematics, to do well on the LSAT. I'm a run of the mill B- student at CC and then Giant State U and I got a 171 after studying for six months. It's a test that tests you on how well you can study for the test and not get distracted by bullshit. Don't blow any of this up to be more than it really is.


Well, as I said above, I meant the very basic rules of formal logic. ...Conditionals, "and".."or" ..."if and only if" ...I didn't know those rules until I read up on them. So you can imagine what it was like doing LG and LR without knowing how to apply those rules. It may be very basic, but you still need to have that basic knowledge to get the correct answer. So if you never took a college class containing them, then you'd be left up to your own devices.

With the SAT, I was simply saying that you should have taken all of the requisite math in high school by the time of the
SAT so you'd presumably have the tools at hand to solve whatever problems you needed to. The LSAT requires some tools - albeit not that advanced necessarily - to solve many of its problems that some people may simply never have come across (like me).

Make sense? It may not be super advanced for some people, but it's often unique or different from other stuff they've seen before.

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scifiguy
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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby scifiguy » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:13 pm

re: natural basketball talent

What about those programs and ankle braclets, etc. that supposedly help train you to increase your vertical leap?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsVKvXMqtHc

I remember hearing about these when I was a kid and thought about getting one. They'd always advertise a person of about 5'9-ish height with weak vertical and then after training they could dunk and even get up to about 36-40inch verticals.

You definitely can't grow an inch in height, but I think your vertical leap may be train-able via practice. lol.

I never did get around to buying one of those things. Which is maybe why my vertical has gotten worse with age and weight (thanks to college and sitting all day)!

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Is it possible that I am stupider than I think I am?

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:56 pm

4 words:

Florida Gulf Coast University




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