T14 for A3 clerkship - Just go by ranking?

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JDeezy
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T14 for A3 clerkship - Just go by ranking?

Postby JDeezy » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:50 am

There seems to be a measurable/consistent difference in Biglaw placement among the T14 that doesn't necessarily reflect rank (ie NU outperforming its rank.)

Understand that this is partially due to self-selection of the students, but wondering if anything similar happens with A3 clerkships. Let's forget about COA for a second, if one's goal is to get the most prestigious clerkship possible, should one just go to the highest ranked school possible? Or is there a more strategic way to go? Is CCN measurably better for clerkship than say a NU which is known for its business/corporate law tilt?

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bk1
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Re: T14 for A3 clerkship - Just go by ranking?

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:06 am

Unless you the school you are choosing is one of HYS, you really shouldn't be choosing a school based on clerking. Getting an A3 clerkship is incredibly tough and only a small percentage, even within the T14, have a realistic shot at getting one. Choosing a T14 because you want to be an A3 clerk is like choosing a TTT because you want biglaw. It makes no sense because the chances are so small.

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hephaestus
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Re: T14 for A3 clerkship - Just go by ranking?

Postby hephaestus » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:14 am

The difference between 6% and 11% (or how similarly small the gap is) is not worth changing your school decision. Unless you're at HYS, the chance is so small that you are best off picking because of financial / NLJ250 placement.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: T14 for A3 clerkship - Just go by ranking?

Postby Elston Gunn » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:16 am

T14 for POTUS - Just go by ranking?

Or should I go to a school in a swing state (e.g. UVA)?



(Sorry OP -- everyone else already said the right answer. However, the exception, I guess, is you should go to S over H even if H is ahead of S in the rankings.)

BigZuck
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Re: T14 for A3 clerkship - Just go by ranking?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:06 am

JDeezy wrote:There seems to be a measurable/consistent difference in Biglaw placement among the T14 that doesn't necessarily reflect rank (ie NU outperforming its rank.)

Understand that this is partially due to self-selection of the students, but wondering if anything similar happens with A3 clerkships. Let's forget about COA for a second, if one's goal is to get the most prestigious clerkship possible, should one just go to the highest ranked school possible? Or is there a more strategic way to go? Is CCN measurably better for clerkship than say a NU which is known for its business/corporate law tilt?


Just do Yale bro

Last year I think Duke was 4th behind HYS. But they were only like one or two percentage points above Columbia, NYU, Chicago etc. Most of the T13 seems to hover around 8-11% which, as people have said, is not a huge difference. I would not be surprised if smaller schools (like Duke) slightly "punch above their weight" in a number of factors just because they have less kids to place but even if that's true you should still be choosing a school based on much more important factors like cost.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: T14 for A3 clerkship - Just go by ranking?

Postby TaipeiMort » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:22 am

TLS wisdow has been that Chicago is roughly comparable to HYS in clerkship placement. From my experience, this is because Chicago has strong ties to a lot of conservative/libertarian justices, some self-selection with conservative students, and three Seventh Circuit judges on the faculty (and Epstein, who will give you a A3 clerkship if he likes you).

Some T14 schools also have policies which harm their students (e.g., I know Michigan didn't (still doesn't?) let you apply off-plan).
Last edited by TaipeiMort on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: T14 for A3 clerkship - Just go by ranking?

Postby Elston Gunn » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:24 am

TaipeiMort wrote:TLS wisdow has been that Chicago is roughly comparable to HYS in clerkship placement. From my experience, this is because Chicago has strong ties to a lot of conservative/libertarian justices, some self-selection with conservative students, and three Seventh Circuit judges on the faculty (and Epstein, who will give you a A3 clerkship if he likes you).


lol

Ti Malice
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Re: T14 for A3 clerkship - Just go by ranking?

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:45 am

TaipeiMort wrote:TLS wisdow has been that Chicago is roughly comparable to HYS in clerkship placement.


Bahahahaha

Missed ya, Mort.

09042014
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Re: T14 for A3 clerkship - Just go by ranking?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:48 am

bk1 wrote:Unless you the school you are choosing is one of HYS, you really shouldn't be choosing a school based on clerking. Getting an A3 clerkship is incredibly tough and only a small percentage, even within the T14, have a realistic shot at getting one. Choosing a T14 because you want to be an A3 clerk is like choosing a TTT because you want biglaw. It makes no sense because the chances are so small.


Picking your school based on clerking is always stupid. It's a one year temporary job that doesn't radically change your career prospects.

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bk1
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Re: T14 for A3 clerkship - Just go by ranking?

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:51 am

Desert Fox wrote:Picking your school based on clerking is always stupid. It's a one year temporary job that doesn't radically change your career prospects.

It doesn't radically change your career prospects but it does open the door to certain selective employers, at least somewhat depending on the employer, that would often be mostly foreclosed to people who did not clerk.

09042014
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Re: T14 for A3 clerkship - Just go by ranking?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:54 am

bk1 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Picking your school based on clerking is always stupid. It's a one year temporary job that doesn't radically change your career prospects.

It doesn't radically change your career prospects but it does open the door to certain selective employers, at least somewhat depending on the employer, that would often be mostly foreclosed to people who did not clerk.


If you can get an in with that firm, you are already qualified for a clerkship. And we are taking about an abysmally small amount of jobs, even amongst top jobs.

I'm not saying clerking isn't worth it. Just it's not a big enough factor to worry about as a 0L.

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bk1
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Re: T14 for A3 clerkship - Just go by ranking?

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:01 pm

Desert Fox wrote:If you can get an in with that firm, you are already qualified for a clerkship. And we are taking about an abysmally small amount of jobs, even amongst top jobs.

I'm not saying clerking isn't worth it. Just it's not a big enough factor to worry about as a 0L.

I guess that's fair. I would say that for "prestigious" employment, including clerking, it seems justifiable to choose HYS over a lower T14.

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Re: T14 for A3 clerkship - Just go by ranking?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:06 pm

bk1 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:If you can get an in with that firm, you are already qualified for a clerkship. And we are taking about an abysmally small amount of jobs, even amongst top jobs.

I'm not saying clerking isn't worth it. Just it's not a big enough factor to worry about as a 0L.

I guess that's fair. I would say that for "prestigious" employment, including clerking, it seems justifiable to choose HYS over a lower T14.


Agreed. But even then, I'd say it's a fairly small market, and HYS students end up mostly at the same places T14 students do. Worth considering somewhat, but it shouldn't be the primary concern.

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bk1
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Re: T14 for A3 clerkship - Just go by ranking?

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:11 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Agreed. But even then, I'd say it's a fairly small market, and HYS students end up mostly at the same places T14 students do. Worth considering somewhat, but it shouldn't be the primary concern.

Agreed.




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