Legal Academia

[Otunga]

Unfortunately, many adjuncts work for what a McDonalds full-time employee makes. What a high school teacher makes is gold in comparison.

As far as PhD admissions in philosophy compared to law admissions, here's an example. The Yale philosophy department admits about 3-5% of its applicants. And the law school admits roughly 8%, if I recall the stat correctly. Plus, keep in mind PhD admissions are very idiosyncratic - stats just get your foot in the door, it's your writing sample and letters that get you in. It's absolutely brutal. And everybody you're competing with is just as good as you, if not better. Also - prestige doesn't count as much in philosophy as it does in law. It matters more for admissions to PhD programs I'd say, as opposed to the jobs. I've been told by one of my UG professors that even the top ten philosophy departments (not just Ivies - Rutgers is widely considered the best department in the country) are only placing half of their PhD graduates into jobs. And not all these jobs are good. Most make what a government attorney would make, if that.

Law school's very much a live option for me.

[sublime]

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[John_rizzy_rawls]

Yea, I applied to a number of sociology PhD programs awhile ago. Couldn't get into a single one. It really is brutal. So much of that process is intangible and they want you to prove you would be a good fit there. At least at law schools, if you help their medians, you are in.

Also again, applying to the PhD program as a 1L is also an option.

[sublime]

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[dr123]

I see you, Leiter alt.

[John_rizzy_rawls]

Yea, I applied to a number of sociology PhD programs awhile ago. Couldn't get into a single one. It really is brutal. So much of that process is intangible and they want you to prove you would be a good fit there. At least at law schools, if you help their medians, you are in.

Also again, applying to the PhD program as a 1L is also an option.

It would be great. Before this thread, I was under the impression that you had to apply as an entering student, but I guess not. Is there a source of information about that process that you could point me to, or is it best to just check with the individual schools?

Individual schools are the way to go. You'd be amazing how much schools reduce standards once you're shelling out a quarter of a million bucks. MBA, MPP, PhD - all those dual degrees options once you're a 1L. It's not easy obviously but yeah, you can apply. Not always a good idea though.

[John_rizzy_rawls]

I see you, Leiter alt.

Gag.

[Otunga]

Well, the top law schools tend to also have stellar philosophy departments. But it really depends on whether my philosophical interests fit well with theirs. Yale and Harvard do happen to be good fits.

[hq2x]

One thing to consider is that if you're going to consider legal academia you better be at HYS (or T6/14 with large scholarships). All three schools have solid repayment plans that will mitigate the debt. This means you can take a shot at academia and if you fail, you will be able to manage your debt if you get a <50k job and be in a much better position financially than if you come out of a PhD program and strike out at a tenure-track job.

[Balthy]

Also again, applying to the PhD program as a 1L is also an option.

Interesting that you're more likely to get in as a 1L. Do you think the same applies to JD/MBA programs?

[banjo]

Yea, I applied to a number of sociology PhD programs awhile ago. Couldn't get into a single one. It really is brutal. So much of that process is intangible and they want you to prove you would be a good fit there. At least at law schools, if you help their medians, you are in.

Also again, applying to the PhD program as a 1L is also an option.

It would be great. Before this thread, I was under the impression that you had to apply as an entering student, but I guess not. Is there a source of information about that process that you could point me to, or is it best to just check with the individual schools?

I have no firsthand knowledge of this, but if your PhD takes a few years longer than your JD, you might risk losing out on a legal career. This stems from the argument that JDs have a "shelf life" and that declining to practice out of law school could weaken your resume for practice. Worth looking into.

[Otunga]

One alternative to consider is practicing law for a decade or so, saving as much money as possible, then pursuing the PhD as a non-traditional student. At least you've got ten years of experience under your belt if the PhD doesn't work out at some point or another. Of course, it's assumed here that one is staying remotely up to date with the contemporary literature in whatever field they're interested in.