What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

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scifiguy
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What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby scifiguy » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:34 am

Slightly bored tonight, but a real question, nevertheless.

I'm sure the answer is "it depends" or that it's an appples to oranges type thing. ...But, any arguments for a position?
Last edited by scifiguy on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:39 am

It's people like you.

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scifiguy
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby scifiguy » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:44 am

So, I think Gross Anatomy might be one of the more difficult MD classes. You learn every macroscopic bone, tissue, muscle, etc. in the human body (in their normal and diseased states). The level of physical detail and memorization involved can be hard.

For Ph.D.'s the difficulty can vary a lot by field and strength of program. I'm guessing a person doing theoretical physics at MIT will have more difficult work than a Ph.D. in Film Studies at Montana State Univ.

What about JD programs? Is there a class that usually students find to be one of the harder/hardest ones? Civ Pro? Contracts? If so, what makes it super hard?

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isuperserial
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby isuperserial » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:08 am

scifiguy wrote:Slightly bored tonight, but a real question, nevertheless.

I'm sure the answer is "it depends" or that it's an appples to oranges type thing. ...But, any arguments for a position?


It doesn't just depend, it's impossible to say. I honestly haven't been to law school yet, but I do think I am much more suited for that than Med School. PhDs are so diverse. If I were to try for a PhD in English, I would probably do pretty well (3.92 GPA for my English Major), but if I were to go for a PhD in Nuclear Physics, I'd probably end up blowing my brains out.

I tend to do very well with the humanities. I tend to suck at math and some sciences, relatively. So it differs from person to person.

I know a lot of kids who are going to become very wealthy, very successful people in their fields, but could never in a million years succeed in law school because they're pretty shitty at writing and don't really care for reading.

What's easiest is going to be what you're good at and enjoy.

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cinephile
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby cinephile » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:25 am

It doesn't matter, because no one will do all three. Besides, rigor is meaningless. Rigor doesn't put a roof over your head nor does it make you happy. Pick the one that will make you happiest and provide you with the best job opportunities.

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twenty
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby twenty » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:20 pm

In order of DAT RIGOR:

American Ph.D > M.D. > J.D. > British Ph.D

Though in fairness, I'd rather spend three years in school working really hard than seven years in school working moderately hard.

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star fox
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby star fox » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:26 pm

Having done all three, I feel uniquely qualified to answer this question.

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twenty
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby twenty » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:11 pm

john7234797 wrote:Having done all three, I feel uniquely qualified to answer this question.


If you've done all three, get a job you hippie. ;)

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:28 pm

I've met a bunch of JD/PhDs, and some Ph.D./MDs, but I don't think I've ever met a Ph.D./M.D./J.D. :lol:

redgreenpaper
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby redgreenpaper » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:30 pm

undergrad STEM master race reporting in.

starting salary 300k any job i want

jwinaz
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby jwinaz » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:28 am

I'm not sure how we're defining rigor, but also realize that JDs aren't meant to go that in-depth into a subject matter.

They are trained, from what I understand (disclaimer: 0L), to "think like a lawyer" without necessarily having to remember and master in detail all the stuff of their field like a Ph.D.

From the posts here at TLS, some say you don't even have to do the readings in law school and can just read outlines and learn how to apply the material from there. It might be that application is what's important for law, whereas for a Ph.D. you actually do need to know the material in-depth. You literally wouldn't be able to do anything in chemistry or physics, for example, if you didn't understand atoms and their structure and the various laws that govern them and the math needed to describe those processes, etc. etc. Everything builds and you need to know it all to do any work.

Same with medicine. There is a definite need of mastery of material for doctors to be able to do their jobs properly and not make catastrophic mistakes.

I think "rigor" may be conceived of differently for law. Again, since I'm an 0L, I can't speak with any certainty here, but it would seem that you're being trained to have general analytical ability pertaining to interpreting and applying the law. It doesn't seem as narrowly focused, nor necessarily as detailed (yet). ...Perhaps later in real practice of the law when dealing with a highly complex case you end up having greater detail and "rigor" ??

Just speculation, so feel free to correct me if wrong. I'm actually curious about this too.

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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:33 am

Wormfather wrote:moar shitty threads please.

Void
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby Void » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:37 am

This thread stinks. What's with all the phd/md/jd threads? Sounds like OP is trying to decide what to do with his life. Here's some advice: if you're not sure whether you want to be a doctor, a lawyer, or an academic, that probably means that you don't actually want to be a lawyer. Dont waste your time and money on law school unless you actually want to do this.

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JCougar
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby JCougar » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:48 am

jwinaz wrote:I'm not sure how we're defining rigor, but also realize that JDs aren't meant to go that in-depth into a subject matter.


Not only does a master's thesis and a dissertation require you to think more deeply about a subject; in scientific fields, it also requires your ideas to be empirically validated. This means you can't just spew out 50 pages of conjecture simply because it sounds good and you can unearth enough low-level law review citations (that are similarly not empirically validated) to pass it off as "scholarship." It also has to be an original idea--whereas the "study" of law is mostly recycling the ideas of others. Moreover, PhD programs make you defend your ideas in front of the faculty, whose main goal is to rip your reasoning apart time and time again.

Science PhD programs thus require a lot more practical, critical thinking skills. I'm not sure what is required for dissertations in fields like literature or English, though. I'd certainly put the JD last on that list. The only reason it's actually hard is that it requires boatloads of mundane busywork.

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scifiguy
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby scifiguy » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:05 am

JCougar wrote:
jwinaz wrote:I'm not sure how we're defining rigor, but also realize that JDs aren't meant to go that in-depth into a subject matter.


Not only does a master's thesis and a dissertation require you to think more deeply about a subject; in scientific fields, it also requires your ideas to be empirically validated. This means you can't just spew out 50 pages of conjecture simply because it sounds good and you can unearth enough low-level law review citations (that are similarly not empirically validated) to pass it off as "scholarship." It also has to be an original idea--whereas the "study" of law is mostly recycling the ideas of others. Moreover, PhD programs make you defend your ideas in front of the faculty, whose main goal is to rip your reasoning apart time and time again.

Science PhD programs thus require a lot more practical, critical thinking skills. I'm not sure what is required for dissertations in fields like literature or English, though. I'd certainly put the JD last on that list. The only reason it's actually hard is that it requires boatloads of mundane busywork.



Do JDs/law students evn write papers at all, though? I thought it was all a single end-of-semester exam, no???

I actually asked about the non-reading of assignments thing in another thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=205205

Void
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby Void » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:07 am

scifiguy wrote:

Do JDs/law students evn write papers at all, though? I thought it was all a single end-of-semester exam, no???


I have 4 papers to write this semester, and zero exams.

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spleenworship
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby spleenworship » Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:51 pm

The hell is with you starting all these dumb threads?

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ManOfTheMinute
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby ManOfTheMinute » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:03 pm

spleenworship wrote:The hell is with you starting all these dumb threads?

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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby byn » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:35 pm

MD/PhD.

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TheBiggerMediocre
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Re: What is More Rigorous: Ph.D., M.D., or J.D.?

Postby TheBiggerMediocre » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:52 pm

just look at their employment numbers




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