Tips on Sharing "Law School Scam" w/ Others [COMPENDIUM]

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y2zipper
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Re: Tips on Sharing "Law School Scam" w/ Others [COMPENDIUM]

Postby y2zipper » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:00 pm

Pneumonia wrote:I'd like to second the original post.

I've been away for a week without internet and meant to post the exact question/prompt as OP before leaving. The plan was to post and then come back to a week's worth of advice etc. So all week I was pissed that I forgot, then happy to see this thread, then disappointed that it isn't awesome. I've recently found myself in the situation described above with both friends and family- the former psyched about NYLS and the latter about a reach admission to a T2 with no ties and a top 1/3 stip on a partial (>30%, after negotiating).

Although I've gleaned a lot from individual opinions about when to share info like LST or TLS with someone, I'm still interested in how to do so as I anticipate that I will be doing so in the near future. I know lots of ya'll think "never try to talk to someone about the LSS unless they're close family," and I respect that position, but I've also read many of you mention successful/unsuccessful attempts and I'd love to hear more of those stories and benefit from your advice. Thanks in advance.

*edit for stupid their/they're equivocation


Well, count me in from the other perspective. I have a couple friends who are young lawyers who recently talked me out of going at all simply because I don't have the numbers. We went out to dinner and they showed me the numbers and the website. Sucks I don't get to go, doesn't suck so much that I'll avoid striking out with debt.

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TheBiggerMediocre
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Re: Tips on Sharing "Law School Scam" w/ Others [COMPENDIUM]

Postby TheBiggerMediocre » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:20 pm

y2zipper wrote:
Pneumonia wrote:I'd like to second the original post.

I've been away for a week without internet and meant to post the exact question/prompt as OP before leaving. The plan was to post and then come back to a week's worth of advice etc. So all week I was pissed that I forgot, then happy to see this thread, then disappointed that it isn't awesome. I've recently found myself in the situation described above with both friends and family- the former psyched about NYLS and the latter about a reach admission to a T2 with no ties and a top 1/3 stip on a partial (>30%, after negotiating).

Although I've gleaned a lot from individual opinions about when to share info like LST or TLS with someone, I'm still interested in how to do so as I anticipate that I will be doing so in the near future. I know lots of ya'll think "never try to talk to someone about the LSS unless they're close family," and I respect that position, but I've also read many of you mention successful/unsuccessful attempts and I'd love to hear more of those stories and benefit from your advice. Thanks in advance.

*edit for stupid their/they're equivocation


Well, count me in from the other perspective. I have a couple friends who are young lawyers who recently talked me out of going at all simply because I don't have the numbers. We went out to dinner and they showed me the numbers and the website. Sucks I don't get to go, doesn't suck so much that I'll avoid striking out with debt.


yessss another one down 19,999 to go

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Pneumonia
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Re: Tips on Sharing "Law School Scam" w/ Others [COMPENDIUM]

Postby Pneumonia » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:30 am

y2zipper wrote:
Pneumonia wrote:I've also read many of you mention successful/unsuccessful attempts and I'd love to hear more of those stories and benefit from your advice. Thanks in advance.


Well, count me in from the other perspective. I have a couple friends who are young lawyers who recently talked me out of going at all simply because I don't have the numbers. We went out to dinner and they showed me the numbers and the website. Sucks I don't get to go, doesn't suck so much that I'll avoid striking out with debt.


Good friends. Also, it would be great if everyone else that had less than stellar numbers was as respondent to you are to the employment/debt numbers. Most people on these boards who are good with numbers also have good numbers and vice versa.

It's a shame that those websites don't get more exposure, and also that even if they did there would still be loads of people fighting for TTT/T at sticker.

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leighleigh
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Re: Tips on Sharing "Law School Scam" w/ Others [COMPENDIUM]

Postby leighleigh » Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:44 pm

Call me cruel, selfish, or whatever, but I don't give a fuck if people apply to law school when they shouldn't. They're stupid for not doing any research about the prospects of a career and potential financial issues after law school. I'm not, and never will be, in that boat, and that's all I care about. At some point, you have to realize it's a dog-eat-dog world out there. Darwin's principle of natural selection applies well to not only law school but other career options as well.

I just want to know why someone would care that much to be the Good Samaritan. Campos's book Don't Go to Law School (Unless) is like $5 on Amazon. If someone isn't willing to buy and read it, he/she deserves the $100K-$300K worth of debt they graduate with. I'm more than content with sitting back and watching people make dumb decisions.

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: Tips on Sharing "Law School Scam" w/ Others [COMPENDIUM]

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:39 pm

leighleigh wrote:Call me cruel, selfish, or whatever, but I don't give a fuck if people apply to law school when they shouldn't. They're stupid for not doing any research about the prospects of a career and potential financial issues after law school. I'm not, and never will be, in that boat, and that's all I care about. At some point, you have to realize it's a dog-eat-dog world out there. Darwin's principle of natural selection applies well to not only law school but other career options as well.

I just want to know why someone would care that much to be the Good Samaritan. Campos's book Don't Go to Law School (Unless) is like $5 on Amazon. If someone isn't willing to buy and read it, he/she deserves the $100K-$300K worth of debt they graduate with. I'm more than content with sitting back and watching people make dumb decisions.


cool

NYstate
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Re: Tips on Sharing "Law School Scam" w/ Others [COMPENDIUM]

Postby NYstate » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:46 pm

leighleigh wrote:Call me cruel, selfish, or whatever, but I don't give a fuck if people apply to law school when they shouldn't. They're stupid for not doing any research about the prospects of a career and potential financial issues after law school. I'm not, and never will be, in that boat, and that's all I care about. At some point, you have to realize it's a dog-eat-dog world out there. Darwin's principle of natural selection applies well to not only law school but other career options as well.

I just want to know why someone would care that much to be the Good Samaritan. Campos's book Don't Go to Law School (Unless) is like $5 on Amazon. If someone isn't willing to buy and read it, he/she deserves the $100K-$300K worth of debt they graduate with. I'm more than content with sitting back and watching people make dumb decisions.


Some of us care about law as a profession and want to fight back against the lies schools peddled for decades. Some of us feel that the profession as a whole is better served without so many schools ripping off the unsuspecting. How does the profession look when stories in the main stream media are constantly saying what a terrible decision it is to go to law school? People hate lawyers anyway, now they know that even our teachers and our deans are dishonest bastards.

And then, also, many of us care to try to stop people from jumping off a cliff if we can.

But you can just worry about your own self, which seems to suit you best anyway.

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leighleigh
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Re: Tips on Sharing "Law School Scam" w/ Others [COMPENDIUM]

Postby leighleigh » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:42 pm

NYstate wrote:
leighleigh wrote:Call me cruel, selfish, or whatever, but I don't give a fuck if people apply to law school when they shouldn't. They're stupid for not doing any research about the prospects of a career and potential financial issues after law school. I'm not, and never will be, in that boat, and that's all I care about. At some point, you have to realize it's a dog-eat-dog world out there. Darwin's principle of natural selection applies well to not only law school but other career options as well.

I just want to know why someone would care that much to be the Good Samaritan. Campos's book Don't Go to Law School (Unless) is like $5 on Amazon. If someone isn't willing to buy and read it, he/she deserves the $100K-$300K worth of debt they graduate with. I'm more than content with sitting back and watching people make dumb decisions.


Some of us care about law as a profession and want to fight back against the lies schools peddled for decades. Some of us feel that the profession as a whole is better served without so many schools ripping off the unsuspecting. How does the profession look when stories in the main stream media are constantly saying what a terrible decision it is to go to law school? People hate lawyers anyway, now they know that even our teachers and our deans are dishonest bastards.

And then, also, many of us care to try to stop people from jumping off a cliff if we can.

But you can just worry about your own self, which seems to suit you best anyway.


My post wasn't about law as a profession. It was about people who don't do any research; I can't feel sorry for those people. Law professionals aren't lying about the hiring process. Thus, the profession itself isn't the problem. It's the law schools (which is something I totally agree with, as you said); there is a difference. You don't see websites, blogs, and books being written about the lies that firms are telling.

If you're going to go to law school, you should do your research. It should also follow that you should look at career prospects. Even general information about the legal job market is widely available; no one has to really search very long for something that says, "Watch out. Law school isn't such a great option right now." If someone sees that when he/she wants to go to law school, wouldn't they then think to research the issue further? If they don't, that's sad.

People who are uninformed: do they live under a rock? At the very least, people who are interested in applying to law school probably Google a phrase similar to "going to law school" at least once before studying for the LSAT and applying. Is that not an obvious given? Maybe I assume too much. That isn't selfish. I'm not going to do research for someone else. That's what I was saying.

You are right in saying that law schools (admissions, teachers, deans, anyone who works there) are being money-loving assholes who don't care about their students' welfare after graduation. I totally agree, but you really blew my reply out of proportion. I was speaking in reference to the individual level. Change at the individual level is far easier to create than change at the institutional level. Once students wake up and apply the facts to their futures, law schools will be forced to do something as well because they will inevitably see applicant numbers decrease. But, like Campos said, if students are going to apply and attend, schools will stay open and take their money. Even though that isn't "morally right," it makes economic sense. People who fall into that trap were wrong, just like people who buy into the claims made about products on infomercials at 3 AM. A law degree is a product; if you are considering spending that kind of money, you should know whether or not it's a good investment. Is that selfish? No. It's common sense. Sorry if other people don't have it.

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Pneumonia
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Re: Tips on Sharing "Law School Scam" w/ Others [COMPENDIUM]

Postby Pneumonia » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:47 am

leighleigh wrote:My post wasn't about law as a profession. It was about people who don't do any research; I can't feel sorry for those people. Law professionals aren't lying about the hiring process. Thus, the profession itself isn't the problem. It's the law schools (which is something I totally agree with, as you said); there is a difference. You don't see websites, blogs, and books being written about the lies that firms are telling.

If you're going to go to law school, you should do your research. It should also follow that you should look at career prospects. Even general information about the legal job market is widely available; no one has to really search very long for something that says, "Watch out. Law school isn't such a great option right now." If someone sees that when he/she wants to go to law school, wouldn't they then think to research the issue further? If they don't, that's sad.

People who are uninformed: do they live under a rock? At the very least, people who are interested in applying to law school probably Google a phrase similar to "going to law school" at least once before studying for the LSAT and applying. Is that not an obvious given? Maybe I assume too much. That isn't selfish. I'm not going to do research for someone else. That's what I was saying.

You are right in saying that law schools (admissions, teachers, deans, anyone who works there) are being money-loving assholes who don't care about their students' welfare after graduation. I totally agree, but you really blew my reply out of proportion. I was speaking in reference to the individual level. Change at the individual level is far easier to create than change at the institutional level. Once students wake up and apply the facts to their futures, law schools will be forced to do something as well because they will inevitably see applicant numbers decrease. But, like Campos said, if students are going to apply and attend, schools will stay open and take their money. Even though that isn't "morally right," it makes economic sense. People who fall into that trap were wrong, just like people who buy into the claims made about products on infomercials at 3 AM. A law degree is a product; if you are considering spending that kind of money, you should know whether or not it's a good investment. Is that selfish? No. It's common sense. Sorry if other people don't have it.


cool

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mephistopheles
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Re: Tips on Sharing "Law School Scam" w/ Others [COMPENDIUM]

Postby mephistopheles » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:49 am

wtf is going on in here?

rad lulz
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Re: Tips on Sharing "Law School Scam" w/ Others [COMPENDIUM]

Postby rad lulz » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:49 am

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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leighleigh
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Re: Tips on Sharing "Law School Scam" w/ Others [COMPENDIUM]

Postby leighleigh » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:24 am

rad lulz wrote:
leighleigh wrote:Darwin's principle of natural selection applies well to not only law school but other career options as well.

We should bring back eugenics


Sorry, I'll remember to be more literal next time.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Tips on Sharing "Law School Scam" w/ Others [COMPENDIUM]

Postby NoodleyOne » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:25 am

leighleigh wrote:
NYstate wrote:
leighleigh wrote:Call me cruel, selfish, or whatever, but I don't give a fuck if people apply to law school when they shouldn't. They're stupid for not doing any research about the prospects of a career and potential financial issues after law school. I'm not, and never will be, in that boat, and that's all I care about. At some point, you have to realize it's a dog-eat-dog world out there. Darwin's principle of natural selection applies well to not only law school but other career options as well.

I just want to know why someone would care that much to be the Good Samaritan. Campos's book Don't Go to Law School (Unless) is like $5 on Amazon. If someone isn't willing to buy and read it, he/she deserves the $100K-$300K worth of debt they graduate with. I'm more than content with sitting back and watching people make dumb decisions.


Some of us care about law as a profession and want to fight back against the lies schools peddled for decades. Some of us feel that the profession as a whole is better served without so many schools ripping off the unsuspecting. How does the profession look when stories in the main stream media are constantly saying what a terrible decision it is to go to law school? People hate lawyers anyway, now they know that even our teachers and our deans are dishonest bastards.

And then, also, many of us care to try to stop people from jumping off a cliff if we can.

But you can just worry about your own self, which seems to suit you best anyway.


My post wasn't about law as a profession. It was about people who don't do any research; I can't feel sorry for those people. Law professionals aren't lying about the hiring process. Thus, the profession itself isn't the problem. It's the law schools (which is something I totally agree with, as you said); there is a difference. You don't see websites, blogs, and books being written about the lies that firms are telling.

If you're going to go to law school, you should do your research. It should also follow that you should look at career prospects. Even general information about the legal job market is widely available; no one has to really search very long for something that says, "Watch out. Law school isn't such a great option right now." If someone sees that when he/she wants to go to law school, wouldn't they then think to research the issue further? If they don't, that's sad.

People who are uninformed: do they live under a rock? At the very least, people who are interested in applying to law school probably Google a phrase similar to "going to law school" at least once before studying for the LSAT and applying. Is that not an obvious given? Maybe I assume too much. That isn't selfish. I'm not going to do research for someone else. That's what I was saying.

You are right in saying that law schools (admissions, teachers, deans, anyone who works there) are being money-loving assholes who don't care about their students' welfare after graduation. I totally agree, but you really blew my reply out of proportion. I was speaking in reference to the individual level. Change at the individual level is far easier to create than change at the institutional level. Once students wake up and apply the facts to their futures, law schools will be forced to do something as well because they will inevitably see applicant numbers decrease. But, like Campos said, if students are going to apply and attend, schools will stay open and take their money. Even though that isn't "morally right," it makes economic sense. People who fall into that trap were wrong, just like people who buy into the claims made about products on infomercials at 3 AM. A law degree is a product; if you are considering spending that kind of money, you should know whether or not it's a good investment. Is that selfish? No. It's common sense. Sorry if other people don't have it.

I get what you're saying and even agree a bit. With the current transparency I am a bit more in the "buyer beware" mindset. The data is readily available for anyone who puts in ten minutes of research. That being said, you still have people getting awful advice from parents and prelaw advisors with the whole special snowflake syndrome (boomer lies). I feel that TLS and Campos and others are out there doing God's work right now, but there is still work to be done.

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IAFG
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Re: Tips on Sharing "Law School Scam" w/ Others [COMPENDIUM]

Postby IAFG » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:15 am

Trying to draw a line btw law school administrators and "law professionals" (I assume you mean practitioners) to say that one lying harms the profession but the other lying can't harm the profession is, um, stupid.




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