Are people really this misinformed?

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spleenworship
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Re: Are people really this misinformed?

Postby spleenworship » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:27 pm

FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:One of my older friends (mid 30s, mature?) was legitimately trying to persuade me that a full-ride to Howard was better than sticker at Harvard, because I wouldn't have debt and "all of the firms that go to Harvard go to Howard too." Fer sher



Harvard: 89.9% employment

Howard: 47.1% employment


Hmmmm...... :lol:

JDot
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Re: Are people really this misinformed?

Postby JDot » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:32 pm

matthewsean85 wrote:
JDot wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:So i was at work today (ima personal trainer) and during a break in the workout my client tells me about his daughters acceptance to Saint Johns University (the law school obviously). He was REALLY proud of it, bragging about how she got a 10k scholarship... i didnt say anything because it wouldve been completely uncool, but dont people even do basic research about the chances of employment (and etc) about schools. I was just completely shocked because Saint Johns is from even the most basic google search a pretty poor option for someone who wants to end up as a lawyer... and the decision not to attend and retake the LSAT seems the ONLY logical choice, yet his daughter (and him) are incredibly proud about the acceptance, and even more so the money.

So is this just the "elitism" i see hear on TLS, because i honestly assumed that TLS makes up a HUGE CHUNK of the potential law school applicants of the future, or is this the average applicant, someone who doesnt even realize what kind of a risk going to a top 20 school is, let alone a school in the 80's.


because not everyone in the world are the flaming pretentious douches that hang around this site, to the average person going to law school is an accomplishment, no matter what school you go to....is it a risk? of course, but a lot of things in life are a risk....I work at a large, prestigious law firm and looking at the top 10 most successful/wealthiest lawyers that work there, only ONE went to a T14 school (one actually went to St. Johns)....if you want to slave away at a large defense firm billing 60-70 hours a week then yeah you should be concerned with going to a T14 school, but most people would rather have something called a life....I know someone who graduated from a T4 school 2 years ago and has a well paying job as a lawyer, at the end of the day it’s all about who you know....people should def do research regarding law school before they apply, but I feel like so many people on this forum think you’re fucked in life as a lawyer if you don’t have a T14 degree attached to your name, which is FAR from the truth


and to your last comment, I'd say TLS makes up about 1-5% (if that) of the applicants applying to law school...


I have absolutely no disagreement that TLS is pessimistic toward going to law school, but that's mostly attributable to being well-informed about the current reality of attending law school. Namely that it's a HUGE risk for a lot of people. Just peruse LST for an hour and tell me that taking on ANY debt is worthwhile for some of the placement prospects at schools like St. John's. It's not about whether it COULD pay off, but whether it's a smart gamble to take. Attending law school today is a huge valuation assessment for most applicants, and for a large percentage, it's definitely not a sound investment. Most of the pessimistic people around here are just realistic that it's a stupid investment to throw down $200k+ for a 50% chance of a job as a lawyer. I'll be going to law school for free if I decide to go (at one of those prestige whore T14 most likely) and the employment prospects and time lost for going to school still scare me.

Thanks for your anecdotal evidence, but I'll stick with the data and make an assessment on that. LST>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your cool story.



Yeah, I said it was a risk, I’m not trying to justify that you should go to law school under any circumstances no matter what because it def is a questionable investment, I’m just saying that all is not lost (like most people on here act like) if you don’t attend a T14 school

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Are people really this misinformed?

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:33 pm

matthewsean85 wrote:
JDot wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:So i was at work today (ima personal trainer) and during a break in the workout my client tells me about his daughters acceptance to Saint Johns University (the law school obviously). He was REALLY proud of it, bragging about how she got a 10k scholarship... i didnt say anything because it wouldve been completely uncool, but dont people even do basic research about the chances of employment (and etc) about schools. I was just completely shocked because Saint Johns is from even the most basic google search a pretty poor option for someone who wants to end up as a lawyer... and the decision not to attend and retake the LSAT seems the ONLY logical choice, yet his daughter (and him) are incredibly proud about the acceptance, and even more so the money.

So is this just the "elitism" i see hear on TLS, because i honestly assumed that TLS makes up a HUGE CHUNK of the potential law school applicants of the future, or is this the average applicant, someone who doesnt even realize what kind of a risk going to a top 20 school is, let alone a school in the 80's.


because not everyone in the world are the flaming pretentious douches that hang around this site, to the average person going to law school is an accomplishment, no matter what school you go to....is it a risk? of course, but a lot of things in life are a risk....I work at a large, prestigious law firm and looking at the top 10 most successful/wealthiest lawyers that work there, only ONE went to a T14 school (one actually went to St. Johns)....if you want to slave away at a large defense firm billing 60-70 hours a week then yeah you should be concerned with going to a T14 school, but most people would rather have something called a life....I know someone who graduated from a T4 school 2 years ago and has a well paying job as a lawyer, at the end of the day it’s all about who you know....people should def do research regarding law school before they apply, but I feel like so many people on this forum think you’re fucked in life as a lawyer if you don’t have a T14 degree attached to your name, which is FAR from the truth


and to your last comment, I'd say TLS makes up about 1-5% (if that) of the applicants applying to law school...


I have absolutely no disagreement that TLS is pessimistic toward going to law school, but that's mostly attributable to being well-informed about the current reality of attending law school. Namely that it's a HUGE risk for a lot of people. Just peruse LST for an hour and tell me that taking on ANY debt is worthwhile for some of the placement prospects at schools like St. John's. It's not about whether it COULD pay off, but whether it's a smart gamble to take. Attending law school today is a huge valuation assessment for most applicants, and for a large percentage, it's definitely not a sound investment. Most of the pessimistic people around here are just realistic that it's a stupid investment to throw down $200k+ for a 50% chance of a job as a lawyer. I'll be going to law school for free if I decide to go (at one of those prestige whore T14 most likely) and the employment prospects and time lost for going to school still scare me.

Thanks for your anecdotal evidence, but I'll stick with the data and make an assessment on that. LST>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your cool story.


His argument is pretty flawed but his premise is still correct. 75% of people on TLS are pretenious douchebags. Yeah they preach the truth but they still are mocking, unsympathetic, entitled douche bags (for the most part). A few people on the site know that it's ok to show a little compassion and speak to people in a way that shows a modicrum of civility. But most on here try to let out their pent up aggression from losing the D&D championships by belittling 0L's sincerely looking for answers.

JDot
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Re: Are people really this misinformed?

Postby JDot » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:36 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
matthewsean85 wrote:
JDot wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:So i was at work today (ima personal trainer) and during a break in the workout my client tells me about his daughters acceptance to Saint Johns University (the law school obviously). He was REALLY proud of it, bragging about how she got a 10k scholarship... i didnt say anything because it wouldve been completely uncool, but dont people even do basic research about the chances of employment (and etc) about schools. I was just completely shocked because Saint Johns is from even the most basic google search a pretty poor option for someone who wants to end up as a lawyer... and the decision not to attend and retake the LSAT seems the ONLY logical choice, yet his daughter (and him) are incredibly proud about the acceptance, and even more so the money.

So is this just the "elitism" i see hear on TLS, because i honestly assumed that TLS makes up a HUGE CHUNK of the potential law school applicants of the future, or is this the average applicant, someone who doesnt even realize what kind of a risk going to a top 20 school is, let alone a school in the 80's.


because not everyone in the world are the flaming pretentious douches that hang around this site, to the average person going to law school is an accomplishment, no matter what school you go to....is it a risk? of course, but a lot of things in life are a risk....I work at a large, prestigious law firm and looking at the top 10 most successful/wealthiest lawyers that work there, only ONE went to a T14 school (one actually went to St. Johns)....if you want to slave away at a large defense firm billing 60-70 hours a week then yeah you should be concerned with going to a T14 school, but most people would rather have something called a life....I know someone who graduated from a T4 school 2 years ago and has a well paying job as a lawyer, at the end of the day it’s all about who you know....people should def do research regarding law school before they apply, but I feel like so many people on this forum think you’re fucked in life as a lawyer if you don’t have a T14 degree attached to your name, which is FAR from the truth


and to your last comment, I'd say TLS makes up about 1-5% (if that) of the applicants applying to law school...


I have absolutely no disagreement that TLS is pessimistic toward going to law school, but that's mostly attributable to being well-informed about the current reality of attending law school. Namely that it's a HUGE risk for a lot of people. Just peruse LST for an hour and tell me that taking on ANY debt is worthwhile for some of the placement prospects at schools like St. John's. It's not about whether it COULD pay off, but whether it's a smart gamble to take. Attending law school today is a huge valuation assessment for most applicants, and for a large percentage, it's definitely not a sound investment. Most of the pessimistic people around here are just realistic that it's a stupid investment to throw down $200k+ for a 50% chance of a job as a lawyer. I'll be going to law school for free if I decide to go (at one of those prestige whore T14 most likely) and the employment prospects and time lost for going to school still scare me.

Thanks for your anecdotal evidence, but I'll stick with the data and make an assessment on that. LST>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your cool story.


His argument is pretty flawed but his premise is still correct. 75% of people on TLS are pretenious douchebags. Yeah they preach the truth but they still are mocking, unsympathetic, entitled douche bags (for the most part). A few people on the site know that it's ok to show a little compassion and speak to people in a way that shows a modicrum of civility. But most on here try to let out their pent up aggression from losing the D&D championships by belittling 0L's sincerely looking for answers.


I wasn't really making an argument, more so just an observation...or at least I wasn't trying to make the argument that law isn't a risky investment

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lawhopeful10
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Re: Are people really this misinformed?

Postby lawhopeful10 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:40 pm

Yea I found myself reading someone's what are my chances post the other day and thinking how uninformed they were before remembering before I found TLS I was like that too. All growing up my grand parents were like just go to the best law school you can get in to and pay off the loans later. It took a little while to realize the real world isn't like that lol. Anyway TLS provides a wealth of information and at times people should be more amicable but I just think the legal market plus the plethora of uninformed 0ls makes people on this board very jaded.

rad lulz
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Re: Are people really this misinformed?

Postby rad lulz » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:47 pm

lawhopeful10 wrote:I just think the legal market plus the plethora of uninformed 0ls makes people on this board very jaded.

yes

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spleenworship
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Re: Are people really this misinformed?

Postby spleenworship » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:55 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
His argument is pretty flawed but his premise is still correct. 75% of people on TLS are pretenious douchebags. Yeah they preach the truth but they still are mocking, unsympathetic, entitled douche bags (for the most part). A few people on the site know that it's ok to show a little compassion and speak to people in a way that shows a modicrum of civility. But most on here try to let out their pent up aggression from losing the D&D championships by belittling 0L's sincerely looking for answers.


Image

Seriously, 75% of the people on TLS are incredibly sweet and wonderful people who are neither entitled nor douchebags. Most of us don't start belittling the 0Ls until we tell them the truth and then they try to argue with us from their little special-snowflake world in which they are the sun and moon. You wanna take the risk of a coinflip of having a job? Fine. But don't try to make it like it's a great decision or anything but a risk. And unless you have mitigating circumstances, a stupid risk.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Are people really this misinformed?

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:57 pm

spleenworship wrote:
unc0mm0n1 wrote:
His argument is pretty flawed but his premise is still correct. 75% of people on TLS are pretenious douchebags. Yeah they preach the truth but they still are mocking, unsympathetic, entitled douche bags (for the most part). A few people on the site know that it's ok to show a little compassion and speak to people in a way that shows a modicrum of civility. But most on here try to let out their pent up aggression from losing the D&D championships by belittling 0L's sincerely looking for answers.


Image

Seriously, 75% of the people on TLS are incredibly sweet and wonderful people who are neither entitled nor douchebags. Most of us don't start belittling the 0Ls until we tell them the truth and then they try to argue with us from their little special-snowflake world in which they are the sun and moon. You wanna take the risk of a coinflip of having a job? Fine. But don't try to make it like it's a great decision or anything but a risk. And unless you have mitigating circumstances, a stupid risk.


Ok maybe 75% is a bit much but I'm not going any lower than 50%. I've seen you post and you seem pretty cool but you have to admit some people just lay into posters on the regular with no rhyme or reason.

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star fox
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Re: Are people really this misinformed?

Postby star fox » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:58 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
matthewsean85 wrote:
JDot wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:So i was at work today (ima personal trainer) and during a break in the workout my client tells me about his daughters acceptance to Saint Johns University (the law school obviously). He was REALLY proud of it, bragging about how she got a 10k scholarship... i didnt say anything because it wouldve been completely uncool, but dont people even do basic research about the chances of employment (and etc) about schools. I was just completely shocked because Saint Johns is from even the most basic google search a pretty poor option for someone who wants to end up as a lawyer... and the decision not to attend and retake the LSAT seems the ONLY logical choice, yet his daughter (and him) are incredibly proud about the acceptance, and even more so the money.

So is this just the "elitism" i see hear on TLS, because i honestly assumed that TLS makes up a HUGE CHUNK of the potential law school applicants of the future, or is this the average applicant, someone who doesnt even realize what kind of a risk going to a top 20 school is, let alone a school in the 80's.


because not everyone in the world are the flaming pretentious douches that hang around this site, to the average person going to law school is an accomplishment, no matter what school you go to....is it a risk? of course, but a lot of things in life are a risk....I work at a large, prestigious law firm and looking at the top 10 most successful/wealthiest lawyers that work there, only ONE went to a T14 school (one actually went to St. Johns)....if you want to slave away at a large defense firm billing 60-70 hours a week then yeah you should be concerned with going to a T14 school, but most people would rather have something called a life....I know someone who graduated from a T4 school 2 years ago and has a well paying job as a lawyer, at the end of the day it’s all about who you know....people should def do research regarding law school before they apply, but I feel like so many people on this forum think you’re fucked in life as a lawyer if you don’t have a T14 degree attached to your name, which is FAR from the truth


and to your last comment, I'd say TLS makes up about 1-5% (if that) of the applicants applying to law school...


I have absolutely no disagreement that TLS is pessimistic toward going to law school, but that's mostly attributable to being well-informed about the current reality of attending law school. Namely that it's a HUGE risk for a lot of people. Just peruse LST for an hour and tell me that taking on ANY debt is worthwhile for some of the placement prospects at schools like St. John's. It's not about whether it COULD pay off, but whether it's a smart gamble to take. Attending law school today is a huge valuation assessment for most applicants, and for a large percentage, it's definitely not a sound investment. Most of the pessimistic people around here are just realistic that it's a stupid investment to throw down $200k+ for a 50% chance of a job as a lawyer. I'll be going to law school for free if I decide to go (at one of those prestige whore T14 most likely) and the employment prospects and time lost for going to school still scare me.

Thanks for your anecdotal evidence, but I'll stick with the data and make an assessment on that. LST>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your cool story.


His argument is pretty flawed but his premise is still correct. 75% of people on TLS are pretenious douchebags. Yeah they preach the truth but they still are mocking, unsympathetic, entitled douche bags (for the most part). A few people on the site know that it's ok to show a little compassion and speak to people in a way that shows a modicrum of civility. But most on here try to let out their pent up aggression from losing the D&D championships by belittling 0L's sincerely looking for answers.


People on the internet aren't going to be that nice usually. People behave way differently than they would in real life. I don't even think most people on these boards are all that bad to be honest. Suck it up.

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spleenworship
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Re: Are people really this misinformed?

Postby spleenworship » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:59 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:Ok maybe 75% is a bit much but I'm not going any lower than 50%. I've seen you post and you seem pretty cool but you have to admit some people just lay into posters on the regular with no rhyme or reason.



Meh. I think it is because the meanest/worst/douchiest posters post a lot in the on-topics as well as the lounge. The non-douche high post count people mostly stay in the lounge and don't head out here much. It makes us cry inside.

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Ramius
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Re: Are people really this misinformed?

Postby Ramius » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:14 pm

I think most people pre-TLS and other research are likely very uninformed about the realities of the legal market (myself very much included), and while they don't deserve needlessly mean responses to their innocent questions regarding their options or insights into what their chances are at getting into a school, they do deserve to hear the harsh realities of what people are up against. Giving a no BS answer to the question seems fair, even if it's something the person doesn't want to hear. And quite often the responses to these harsh realities are what people get riled up about. I definitely comment with a good amount of snark at times, but very, very rarely (can't remember ever, but can't say with 100% confidence on this) are these comments made at the original post.

The major difficulty is breaking through people's preconceived notions of what law school and practicing the law means (fully willing to admit I don't know anything about this either and avoid making comments about how it all works) and getting them to do the research themselves. What makes me nervous about people spouting off their anecdotal evidence of people succeeding in law is that it's just that: anecdotal. One person's successes should not influence you in any major way about your chances of similar success. Don't expect to be the exception.

I apologize if any of my first post came off as rude, but that post seemed to downplay the actual risk associated with the law school investment and I wanted it to be clear just what people should be doing in considering law school, and that is figuring it out for themselves. Figure out what your options are, list the relative pros and cons of those options and make a wise, informed decision about what will be best for them. No message board can give them that, but pushing them to the data will hopefully get them started.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Are people really this misinformed?

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:38 pm

matthewsean85 wrote:I think most people pre-TLS and other research are likely very uninformed about the realities of the legal market (myself very much included), and while they don't deserve needlessly mean responses to their innocent questions regarding their options or insights into what their chances are at getting into a school, they do deserve to hear the harsh realities of what people are up against. Giving a no BS answer to the question seems fair, even if it's something the person doesn't want to hear. And quite often the responses to these harsh realities are what people get riled up about. I definitely comment with a good amount of snark at times, but very, very rarely (can't remember ever, but can't say with 100% confidence on this) are these comments made at the original post.

The major difficulty is breaking through people's preconceived notions of what law school and practicing the law means (fully willing to admit I don't know anything about this either and avoid making comments about how it all works) and getting them to do the research themselves. What makes me nervous about people spouting off their anecdotal evidence of people succeeding in law is that it's just that: anecdotal. One person's successes should not influence you in any major way about your chances of similar success. Don't expect to be the exception.

I apologize if any of my first post came off as rude, but that post seemed to downplay the actual risk associated with the law school investment and I wanted it to be clear just what people should be doing in considering law school, and that is figuring it out for themselves. Figure out what your options are, list the relative pros and cons of those options and make a wise, informed decision about what will be best for them. No message board can give them that, but pushing them to the data will hopefully get them started.


What the F*ck is happening here? You made a snarky remark, I countered with an equally snarky remark where I also made an unsubstantiated generalizied statement about the behavior of TLSers at large, A third party who had no dog in the fight intervened disagreeing with my premise and then you come back with this apologetic post????? What is wrong with you? You're supposed to make a derogatory remark about my intellect or at least make a degrading statement about my mother. Jeez! :P

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Ramius
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Re: Are people really this misinformed?

Postby Ramius » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:03 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
matthewsean85 wrote:I think most people pre-TLS and other research are likely very uninformed about the realities of the legal market (myself very much included), and while they don't deserve needlessly mean responses to their innocent questions regarding their options or insights into what their chances are at getting into a school, they do deserve to hear the harsh realities of what people are up against. Giving a no BS answer to the question seems fair, even if it's something the person doesn't want to hear. And quite often the responses to these harsh realities are what people get riled up about. I definitely comment with a good amount of snark at times, but very, very rarely (can't remember ever, but can't say with 100% confidence on this) are these comments made at the original post.

The major difficulty is breaking through people's preconceived notions of what law school and practicing the law means (fully willing to admit I don't know anything about this either and avoid making comments about how it all works) and getting them to do the research themselves. What makes me nervous about people spouting off their anecdotal evidence of people succeeding in law is that it's just that: anecdotal. One person's successes should not influence you in any major way about your chances of similar success. Don't expect to be the exception.

I apologize if any of my first post came off as rude, but that post seemed to downplay the actual risk associated with the law school investment and I wanted it to be clear just what people should be doing in considering law school, and that is figuring it out for themselves. Figure out what your options are, list the relative pros and cons of those options and make a wise, informed decision about what will be best for them. No message board can give them that, but pushing them to the data will hopefully get them started.


What the F*ck is happening here? You made a snarky remark, I countered with an equally snarky remark where I also made an unsubstantiated generalizied statement about the behavior of TLSers at large, A third party who had no dog in the fight intervened disagreeing with my premise and then you come back with this apologetic post????? What is wrong with you? You're supposed to make a derogatory remark about my intellect or at least make a degrading statement about my mother. Jeez! :P


I suck at this internet thing. Probably gonna cancel my internet tonight in shame and delete this account as I've come up wantonly short.




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