How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

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doing_it_in_a_car
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby doing_it_in_a_car » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:33 pm

sorry to hijack - but could anyone comment (or refer threads) on the weight given to undergrad reputation/prestige in biglaw hiring? I assume that by far, the most important factors are grades/law school attended/law review - but all things equal, how much of an edge would attending an ivy undergrad help?

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TheThriller
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby TheThriller » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:52 pm

doing_it_in_a_car wrote:sorry to hijack - but could anyone comment (or refer threads) on the weight given to undergrad reputation/prestige in biglaw hiring? I assume that by far, the most important factors are grades/law school attended/law review - but all things equal, how much of an edge would attending an ivy undergrad help?


0%

az21833
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby az21833 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:41 pm

i believe my UG institution (non-HYP top ivy) is significantly helping my cycle.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:52 pm

az21833 wrote:i believe my UG institution (non-HYP top ivy) is significantly helping my cycle.


Applicants with your numbers, 171/3.9, are basically locks at all the schools you've gotten into so far and are very competitive everywhere, including H and S, except Y - http://myLSN.info/mf75a8

Also, take a look at your softs and achievements. These things all have more weight in your cycle performance than your UG. Though yes as discussed it can be a very minimal boost in certain situations.

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:54 pm

I feel like the best way your UG could help you is if they have rampant grade inflation. My giant state UG has a GPA mean of 3.17 as calculated by LSAC. That's pretty harsh.

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Ludo!
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby Ludo! » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:20 pm

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
az21833 wrote:i believe my UG institution (non-HYP top ivy) is significantly helping my cycle.


Applicants with your numbers, 171/3.9, are basically locks at all the schools you've gotten into so far and are very competitive everywhere, including H and S, except Y - http://myLSN.info/mf75a8

Also, take a look at your softs and achievements. These things all have more weight in your cycle performance than your UG. Though yes as discussed it can be a very minimal boost in certain situations.


Lol, thank you for this. I assumed that's what I would find if I looked into this dude's cycle but I was too lazy

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kwais
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby kwais » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:51 pm

TheThriller wrote:
doing_it_in_a_car wrote:sorry to hijack - but could anyone comment (or refer threads) on the weight given to undergrad reputation/prestige in biglaw hiring? I assume that by far, the most important factors are grades/law school attended/law review - but all things equal, how much of an edge would attending an ivy undergrad help?


0%


I'd say more than 0%, but still low single digits. A lot of students at OCI are indistinguishable. So they may just go with the Hahvahd man.

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Nelson
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby Nelson » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:09 pm

az21833 wrote:i believe my UG institution (non-HYP top ivy) is significantly helping my cycle.

WTF is a "non-HYP top Ivy"? Could we parse the arbitrary snobbery a little finer?

Undergrad doesn't matter at all in admissions, it's been proven time and time again based on the data we have. Anecdotally, you can make just as good an argument that a law school admissions office would prefer a top student from some tiny school in a rural small town with a great story of overcoming adversity over yet another graduate of a top East Coast school.

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Rahviveh
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:12 pm

Nelson wrote:
az21833 wrote:i believe my UG institution (non-HYP top ivy) is significantly helping my cycle.

WTF is a "non-HYP top Ivy"? Could we parse the arbitrary snobbery a little finer?

Undergrad doesn't matter at all in admissions, it's been proven time and time again based on the data we have. Anecdotally, you can make just as good an argument that a law school admissions office would prefer a top student from some tiny school in a rural small town with a great story of overcoming adversity over yet another graduate of a top East Coast school.


Non-HYP top ivy = anti-Brown and Cornell trolling

BigZuck
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby BigZuck » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:13 pm

Nelson wrote:
az21833 wrote:i believe my UG institution (non-HYP top ivy) is significantly helping my cycle.

WTF is a "non-HYP top Ivy"? Could we parse the arbitrary snobbery a little finer?

Undergrad doesn't matter at all in admissions, it's been proven time and time again based on the data we have. Anecdotally, you can make just as good an argument that a law school admissions office would prefer a top student from some tiny school in a rural small town with a great story of overcoming adversity over yet another graduate of a top East Coast school.


Source?

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Nelson
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby Nelson » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:14 pm

BigZuck wrote:
Nelson wrote:
az21833 wrote:i believe my UG institution (non-HYP top ivy) is significantly helping my cycle.

WTF is a "non-HYP top Ivy"? Could we parse the arbitrary snobbery a little finer?

Undergrad doesn't matter at all in admissions, it's been proven time and time again based on the data we have. Anecdotally, you can make just as good an argument that a law school admissions office would prefer a top student from some tiny school in a rural small town with a great story of overcoming adversity over yet another graduate of a top East Coast school.


Source?

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/

Enjoy.

BigZuck
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby BigZuck » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:14 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
Nelson wrote:
az21833 wrote:i believe my UG institution (non-HYP top ivy) is significantly helping my cycle.

WTF is a "non-HYP top Ivy"? Could we parse the arbitrary snobbery a little finer?

Undergrad doesn't matter at all in admissions, it's been proven time and time again based on the data we have. Anecdotally, you can make just as good an argument that a law school admissions office would prefer a top student from some tiny school in a rural small town with a great story of overcoming adversity over yet another graduate of a top East Coast school.


Non-HYP top ivy = anti-Brown and Cornell trolling


Can a non- top 10 Ivy still be a Non-HYP top ivy?

BigZuck
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby BigZuck » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:18 pm

Nelson wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
Nelson wrote:
az21833 wrote:i believe my UG institution (non-HYP top ivy) is significantly helping my cycle.

WTF is a "non-HYP top Ivy"? Could we parse the arbitrary snobbery a little finer?

Undergrad doesn't matter at all in admissions, it's been proven time and time again based on the data we have. Anecdotally, you can make just as good an argument that a law school admissions office would prefer a top student from some tiny school in a rural small town with a great story of overcoming adversity over yet another graduate of a top East Coast school.


Source?

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/

Enjoy.


You're going to have to do better than that. I have a link to a thread where a bro had some potential evidence that prestige matters and it got summarily shot down in much the same manner- without any evidence to the contrary.

Also the mylsn.info guy found potential evidence that there is a prestige bump for HYP.

Try again, do better this time. Or don't make blanket statements if you're not going to back them up with anything concrete when someone questions you.

I'm agnostic about all this BTW but I do suspect there might be a prestige bump and so far that crew makes a more compelling argument then the "No bro, SHUT UP" faction that you side with. I would like some sort of evidence, that's all.

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Nelson
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby Nelson » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:24 pm

BigZuck wrote:You're going to have to do better than that. I have a link to a thread where a bro had some potential evidence that prestige matters and it got summarily shot down in much the same manner- without any evidence to the contrary.

Also the mylsn.info guy found potential evidence that there is a prestige bump for HYP.

Try again, do better this time. Or don't make blanket statements if you're not going to back them up with anything concrete when someone questions you.

I'm agnostic about all this BTW but I do suspect there might be a prestige bump and so far that crew makes a more compelling argument then the "No bro, SHUT UP" faction that you side with. I would like some sort of evidence, that's all.

Law school admissions are so laughably un-holistic and easily predicted based solely on GPA/LSAT that the burden of proof is on anyone who argues otherwise. Your "suspicion" is based on what exactly? My suspicion both conforms to the data and to what top school admissions offices actually say, which is that they like "good stories," not that they like HYP undergrads.

BigZuck
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby BigZuck » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:35 pm

Nelson wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You're going to have to do better than that. I have a link to a thread where a bro had some potential evidence that prestige matters and it got summarily shot down in much the same manner- without any evidence to the contrary.

Also the mylsn.info guy found potential evidence that there is a prestige bump for HYP.

Try again, do better this time. Or don't make blanket statements if you're not going to back them up with anything concrete when someone questions you.

I'm agnostic about all this BTW but I do suspect there might be a prestige bump and so far that crew makes a more compelling argument then the "No bro, SHUT UP" faction that you side with. I would like some sort of evidence, that's all.

Law school admissions are so laughably un-holistic and easily predicted based solely on GPA/LSAT that the burden of proof is on anyone who argues otherwise. Your "suspicion" is based on what exactly? My suspicion both conforms to the data and to what top school admissions offices actually say, which is that they like "good stories," not that they like HYP undergrads.


They also say that they consider "academic rigor" and all that crap. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm saying that you should offer evidence. As for my suspicions, just read the thread. I'm not going to quote myself. I suspect that you did not and will not read the thread however. You are just here to once again reiterate "Doesn't matter bro!" Which is fine, but where does that argument (or fact, as that camp always pushes it) come from? The prestige bump for a small number of schools camp presents their argument and backs it up with data (some of which I have referenced in this thread). Where is your data? I'm sincerely interested.

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:41 pm

I don't think people are arguing "it doesn't matter" as much as they're arguing "it matters very little."

The OP to this thread, at least, had the choice of a state school that was a good fit and a private "prestigious" school that caused a lot of apprehension. The only thing that OP seemed to like about the expensive private school was the prestige. In this case, I would definitely recommend the state school. And in reality, I think it'd be very difficult to prove that prestige of undergrad is more important than around .05 in GPA or 1 LSAT point, so it seems ill-advised to pay, in most cases, hundreds of thousands of dollars more to attend the private school.

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superpippo
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby superpippo » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:55 pm

scifiguy wrote:What about at the extremes like...

i.) For-profit schools (e.g., University of Phoenix, Walden University...)

ii.) Online programs (e.g., Devry University, Drexel Online, Capella...)

and/or

iii.) Ivy's and top private/public's (e.g. Princeton, Yale, MIT, CalTech, Berkeley, Michigan, etc.)?

Berkley and Michigan aren't that extreme in my estimation.

az21833
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby az21833 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:04 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
Nelson wrote:
az21833 wrote:i believe my UG institution (non-HYP top ivy) is significantly helping my cycle.

WTF is a "non-HYP top Ivy"? Could we parse the arbitrary snobbery a little finer?

Undergrad doesn't matter at all in admissions, it's been proven time and time again based on the data we have. Anecdotally, you can make just as good an argument that a law school admissions office would prefer a top student from some tiny school in a rural small town with a great story of overcoming adversity over yet another graduate of a top East Coast school.


Non-HYP top ivy = anti-Brown and Cornell trolling


pretty much.

and i think my UG has helped me get 150k at UVA within a week of applying and hear from CLS/NYU/JS1 on an auto-admit timeline despite only having a 171. I agree that as of now theres not much to analyze but i think when its all said and done, i will have outperformed my numbers in large part due to the institution i attended and how it both prepared me for life and refined my writing skills.

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BerkeleyBear
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby BerkeleyBear » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:05 pm

superpippo wrote:
scifiguy wrote:What about at the extremes like...

i.) For-profit schools (e.g., University of Phoenix, Walden University...)

ii.) Online programs (e.g., Devry University, Drexel Online, Capella...)

and/or

iii.) Ivy's and top private/public's (e.g. Princeton, Yale, MIT, CalTech, Berkeley, Michigan, etc.)?

Berkley and Michigan aren't that extreme in my estimation.

:shock:
:lol:
:roll:
:evil:

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Nelson
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby Nelson » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:20 pm

az21833 wrote:
ChampagnePapi wrote:
Nelson wrote:
az21833 wrote:i believe my UG institution (non-HYP top ivy) is significantly helping my cycle.

WTF is a "non-HYP top Ivy"? Could we parse the arbitrary snobbery a little finer?

Undergrad doesn't matter at all in admissions, it's been proven time and time again based on the data we have. Anecdotally, you can make just as good an argument that a law school admissions office would prefer a top student from some tiny school in a rural small town with a great story of overcoming adversity over yet another graduate of a top East Coast school.


Non-HYP top ivy = anti-Brown and Cornell trolling


pretty much.

and i think my UG has helped me get 150k at UVA within a week of applying and hear from CLS/NYU/JS1 on an auto-admit timeline despite only having a 171. I agree that as of now theres not much to analyze but i think when its all said and done, i will have outperformed my numbers in large part due to the institution i attended and how it both prepared me for life and refined my writing skills.

You have a 3.9 GPA. You are autoadmit for CCN.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:27 pm

I was admitted to CLS/NYU on an auto-admit timeline in spite of my sub-3.5 GPA due to my attendance at a non-Berkeley/UCLA/UCSD top UC.

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Nelson
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby Nelson » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:31 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:I was admitted to CLS/NYU on an auto-admit timeline in spite of my sub-3.5 GPA due to my attendance at a non-Berkeley/UCLA/UCSD top UC.

:lol:

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elterrible78
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby elterrible78 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:31 pm

Nelson wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You're going to have to do better than that. I have a link to a thread where a bro had some potential evidence that prestige matters and it got summarily shot down in much the same manner- without any evidence to the contrary.

Also the mylsn.info guy found potential evidence that there is a prestige bump for HYP.

Try again, do better this time. Or don't make blanket statements if you're not going to back them up with anything concrete when someone questions you.

I'm agnostic about all this BTW but I do suspect there might be a prestige bump and so far that crew makes a more compelling argument then the "No bro, SHUT UP" faction that you side with. I would like some sort of evidence, that's all.

Law school admissions are so laughably un-holistic and easily predicted based solely on GPA/LSAT that the burden of proof is on anyone who argues otherwise. Your "suspicion" is based on what exactly? My suspicion both conforms to the data and to what top school admissions offices actually say, which is that they like "good stories," not that they like HYP undergrads.


At least at the T-14, the bolded varies quite a bit. Yeah, the numbers are the two most important factors, but other stuff plays a not-insignificant role as well, period.

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LSATSCORES2012
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby LSATSCORES2012 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:36 pm

elterrible78 wrote:
Nelson wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You're going to have to do better than that. I have a link to a thread where a bro had some potential evidence that prestige matters and it got summarily shot down in much the same manner- without any evidence to the contrary.

Also the mylsn.info guy found potential evidence that there is a prestige bump for HYP.

Try again, do better this time. Or don't make blanket statements if you're not going to back them up with anything concrete when someone questions you.

I'm agnostic about all this BTW but I do suspect there might be a prestige bump and so far that crew makes a more compelling argument then the "No bro, SHUT UP" faction that you side with. I would like some sort of evidence, that's all.

Law school admissions are so laughably un-holistic and easily predicted based solely on GPA/LSAT that the burden of proof is on anyone who argues otherwise. Your "suspicion" is based on what exactly? My suspicion both conforms to the data and to what top school admissions offices actually say, which is that they like "good stories," not that they like HYP undergrads.


At least at the T-14, the bolded varies quite a bit. Yeah, the numbers are the two most important factors, but other stuff plays a not-insignificant role as well, period.

Did you ever run the numbers for ug type? I know your method of calculation is different than mine (and in some ways better because it includes those regions of the graph which I can't take into account with my method).

(Sorry I haven't replied to your most recent email, BTW - don't hold off because of me... but I promise I'll get back to you eventually... but it might be at an ASW! :P )

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elterrible78
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Re: How Much Does Your Undergrad School Matter?

Postby elterrible78 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:45 pm

LSATSCORES2012 wrote:
elterrible78 wrote:
Nelson wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You're going to have to do better than that. I have a link to a thread where a bro had some potential evidence that prestige matters and it got summarily shot down in much the same manner- without any evidence to the contrary.

Also the mylsn.info guy found potential evidence that there is a prestige bump for HYP.

Try again, do better this time. Or don't make blanket statements if you're not going to back them up with anything concrete when someone questions you.

I'm agnostic about all this BTW but I do suspect there might be a prestige bump and so far that crew makes a more compelling argument then the "No bro, SHUT UP" faction that you side with. I would like some sort of evidence, that's all.

Law school admissions are so laughably un-holistic and easily predicted based solely on GPA/LSAT that the burden of proof is on anyone who argues otherwise. Your "suspicion" is based on what exactly? My suspicion both conforms to the data and to what top school admissions offices actually say, which is that they like "good stories," not that they like HYP undergrads.


At least at the T-14, the bolded varies quite a bit. Yeah, the numbers are the two most important factors, but other stuff plays a not-insignificant role as well, period.

Did you ever run the numbers for ug type? I know your method of calculation is different than mine (and in some ways better because it includes those regions of the graph which I can't take into account with my method).

(Sorry I haven't replied to your most recent email, BTW - don't hold off because of me... but I promise I'll get back to you eventually... but it might be at an ASW! :P )


I haven't yet, because I still wanted to talk to you about that. And I'm on vacation, so I won't be doing anything with it any time soon, so get back to me when you can, brother!




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