Dear God Help Forum

[masked kavana]

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/gregory-roseto/27/501/652

No Job.

One of the contacts is Jim Carrey, associate professor

Fletcher Reed?

[talesofyore]

I used to think Cooley was a really good school because this one girl I knew quit her job and moved cross country to attend. She was really, really excited. She told EVERYONE. I remember being jealous of her.

kinda embarrassing thinking about it now, but the first time i heard of cooley i thought it was the actual name of the university of michigan law school. like, thomas m. cooley school of law at the university of michigan, or something. so i met this girl who was going to cooley and it came up that i was planning on going to law school in a few years and she asked where i was looking to go, and i named a few places and said something to the effect of i'd like to go to cooley but i don't know if i have good enough grades. she probably thought i was an obnoxious dick.

this is all the more embarrassing b/c i went to michigan for undergrad. i just had never ever heard of cooley and i knew she went to school in ann arbor so i thought it was the only school. oh well.

Seriously though, the name does sound prestigious at first.

[Rory19]

I have a friend who decided that because she hated her $60,000/yr straight out of undergrad job but could not get paid more elsewhere that she "had" to go to law school and was not even starting the process of applying until January. Faculty at our undergrad refused to write her letters of rec. She then did not study for the February LSAT and posted on Facebook that she killed it and here's to $ in the bank in three years--no comprehension of the enormous debt she will likely go into. I have posted articles on my fb page about the lack of fiscal feasibility of law school and she reposts them like she is informed but if she read them then she would end this charade. I am confident that within several weeks a will read a similar post to the OP with similar popularity.

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

[slawww]

What if the lad received a full scholarship, or wants to practice in the area right near Cooley?

The top 1% at Cooley, I'd imagine, probably does rather well for themselves.

I'm not seeing the decision as irreconcilable career hara-kiri, as many seem to think that it is. Can anyone give substantial reasons as to why he or she believes, on the basis of the given information, that it is?

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/07/how-the- ... sin-vinny/

Valedictorian at Cooley = unemployed

The burden of proof is on you to explain why Cooley would be a good decision for anyone, ever. What are your substantial reasons bro?

I am by no means an advocate of Cooley, but I don't think this guy was the valedictorian; he just gave the valedictory speech. The person that introduces him even states that he was "selected by the Oliver Ellsworth class to give the class' farewell comments," and nothing about grades or being the actual valedictorian.

I found this in an article when I googled "valedictory speech"

"A valedictory is a speech that is delivered at the graduation ceremony. The speech is usually performed by the valedictorian, although many colleges and high schools have moved away from the practice of naming a valedictorian. The terms "valedictory" and "valedictorian" come from the Latin valedicere, which means (or pertains to) a formal farewell."

That being said, Cooley is obviously a terrible option. But I don't think this guy was the class valedictorian. I think he just gave the farewell speech.

[slawww]

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/gregory-roseto/27/501/652

No Job.

Holy shit. Did anyone notice the amount of spelling errors?

[Throttle]

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/gregory-roseto/27/501/652

No Job.

Where he went wrong: Criminal Justice and Political Science

[IAFG]

I have a friend who decided that because she hated her $60,000/yr straight out of undergrad job but could not get paid more elsewhere that she "had" to go to law school and was not even starting the process of applying until January. Faculty at our undergrad refused to write her letters of rec. She then did not study for the February LSAT and posted on Facebook that she killed it and here's to $ in the bank in three years--no comprehension of the enormous debt she will likely go into. I have posted articles on my fb page about the lack of fiscal feasibility of law school and she reposts them like she is informed but if she read them then she would end this charade. I am confident that within several weeks a will read a similar post to the OP with similar popularity.

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Maybe she got a 173 on her diagnostic and that is why she didn't study.

[AllDangle]

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/gregory-roseto/27/501/652

No Job.

Where he went wrong: Criminal Justice and Political Science

I'm CJ. Not useful what so ever for what I want to do, but hey, it gave me a T14 GPA and was interesting.

[lutcf2021]

I have a friend who decided that because she hated her $60,000/yr straight out of undergrad job but could not get paid more elsewhere that she "had" to go to law school and was not even starting the process of applying until January. Faculty at our undergrad refused to write her letters of rec. She then did not study for the February LSAT and posted on Facebook that she killed it and here's to $ in the bank in three years--no comprehension of the enormous debt she will likely go into. I have posted articles on my fb page about the lack of fiscal feasibility of law school and she reposts them like she is informed but if she read them then she would end this charade. I am confident that within several weeks a will read a similar post to the OP with similar popularity.

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Maybe she got a 173 on her diagnostic and that is why she didn't study.

LOLOLOL. That's it

[Rory19]

I have a friend who decided that because she hated her $60,000/yr straight out of undergrad job but could not get paid more elsewhere that she "had" to go to law school and was not even starting the process of applying until January. Faculty at our undergrad refused to write her letters of rec. She then did not study for the February LSAT and posted on Facebook that she killed it and here's to $ in the bank in three years--no comprehension of the enormous debt she will likely go into. I have posted articles on my fb page about the lack of fiscal feasibility of law school and she reposts them like she is informed but if she read them then she would end this charade. I am confident that within several weeks a will read a similar post to the OP with similar popularity.

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Maybe she got a 173 on her diagnostic and that is why she didn't study.

Nope--151. And she still thinks law school is going to be money in the bank.

[Ramius]

I have a friend who decided that because she hated her $60,000/yr straight out of undergrad job but could not get paid more elsewhere that she "had" to go to law school and was not even starting the process of applying until January. Faculty at our undergrad refused to write her letters of rec. She then did not study for the February LSAT and posted on Facebook that she killed it and here's to $ in the bank in three years--no comprehension of the enormous debt she will likely go into. I have posted articles on my fb page about the lack of fiscal feasibility of law school and she reposts them like she is informed but if she read them then she would end this charade. I am confident that within several weeks a will read a similar post to the OP with similar popularity.

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Maybe she got a 173 on her diagnostic and that is why she didn't study.

Nope--151. And she still thinks law school is going to be money in the bank.

Maybe she's thinking of parlaying her degree into a lucrative lawyer/stripper career? You never know.

[scifiguy]

I have a friend who decided that because she hated her $60,000/yr straight out of undergrad job but could not get paid more elsewhere that she "had" to go to law school and was not even starting the process of applying until January. Faculty at our undergrad refused to write her letters of rec. She then did not study for the February LSAT and posted on Facebook that she killed it and here's to $ in the bank in three years--no comprehension of the enormous debt she will likely go into. I have posted articles on my fb page about the lack of fiscal feasibility of law school and she reposts them like she is informed but if she read them then she would end this charade. I am confident that within several weeks a will read a similar post to the OP with similar popularity.

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Maybe she got a 173 on her diagnostic and that is why she didn't study.

Nope--151. And she still thinks law school is going to be money in the bank.

Have you considered talking to her privately and making a longer and more personal plea for her to not go?

I've had some weird experiences ono Facebook discussing law school. I tihnk it could work better to PM instead of openly talk to someone (where they know others may be watching). It could come off wrong and their ego may make them ignore you. Most people probably don't want to look foolish or be ciriqiczed in front of their friends (in like an open FB wall post).

If you PM them and word your thoughts carefully and with genuine concern for them, then you might be able to get them to be open to listening. Just a suggestion that might help.

[scifiguy]

http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thr ... orum_id=2/

I don't vouch for the above, but just found it and am reading it now. It's a thread on: Best, most effective way to advise friend against attending TTT

EDIT: nevermind, that thread sucks.

[scifiguy]

Psychologically, what I find is a pattern oftentimes.

You'll have someone who wasn't necessarily a top performer in high school, nor undergraduate and they graduated with a liberal arts degree or simply some degree that hasn't netted them a "great job" out of college. They often are dissatisfied with the type of work they're doing and wonder about possibilities. They'll often see that their current career/job (or even lack of one) doesn't look so great to them or doesn't seem to offer as many opportunities down the line for advancement or doing something interesting. Or perhaps they simply want more right away (and are unwilling to take the time it requires to move up in their current occupation).

Then their ruminations bring up memories of being told as a kid that lawyers and doctors make the most money and are respectable positions in society. They realize that they didn't take all the pre-reqs for medical school and/or didn't have the grades and sense that perhaps their liberal arts background might be a possible fit for law.

Additionally, these people may often have a deep desire for outward respect and admiration of others and see law as a career that will give them status. I know one person who was like that. ...It's a psychological type/problem...some people have this about them. They have low self-esteem and/or really desire the approval of others and will go to great lengths to do something to make themselves feel worthy. (This can stem from many things, such as parents who never affirmed their sense of self-worth, being or having developed an arrogant personality, ....having been abused, etc.). So, they see law as a possible way of providing them with that status and self-affirmation. This is maybe more common and serious of a problem people are willing to admit to.

But combine these things together and a lack of careful research - often relying on and buying into optimistic and enticing school propaganda that affirms their preconceptions of law - and you get someone who goes into the process for dubious reasons, without accurate knowledge of things, and a psychological/emotional investment/interest in going through with the process that makes it hard to talk to them or convince them of things otherwise.

Law just seems like a relatively quick and easy path to riches and social status/prestige/respect for many. This pattern I've described above seems very very common in poeple I've come across.

[canarykb]

You really have to approach these things carefully. I have a friend in law school who got me talking about my decision to go to Harvard or negotiate more aid from the other schools I am admitted too. Giving your experience of the job hunt or personal nervousness about taking on debt is great and helpful. But don't tell a friend that "everyone thinks they're a special snowflake" and "don't expect to do well" and then congratulate them on the low applications this cycle because that's why they've gotten scholarships to good schools.

Sorry that was less advice and more a rant.

[IAFG]

You really have to approach these things carefully. I have a friend in law school who got me talking about my decision to go to Harvard or negotiate more aid from the other schools I am admitted too. Giving your experience of the job hunt or personal nervousness about taking on debt is great and helpful. But don't tell a friend that "everyone thinks they're a special snowflake" and "don't expect to do well" and then congratulate them on the low applications this cycle because that's why they've gotten scholarships to good schools.

Sorry that was less advice and more a rant.

Sounds like you're oversensitive.

[Rory19]

I think there is a difference between talking to a good friend one on one and asking questions which lead you both to the conclusion that they have done no research on this and have not thought through it thoroughly and telling them they will fail.

I asked questions like:
-Law school, huh? Because that had never been mentioned before. To which she shared a desire for increased income but admitted no knowledge of what she wanted to do. She mentioned prosecution and I started to suggest to look at LRAP programs for public interest and she said, "I don't want to do public interest." To which I shared the definition of public interest. "So, yeah, I don't know what everything's called but you're not supposed to, right?"
-Are you applying this cycle?
-Wow, does that leave enough time to make the deadlines?
-Where are you applying?

She asked me to edit her resume and I resisted helping too much and made suggestions like, "If you are going to choose a skills based format, consider the skills that law schools are looking for and highlight those."

I just cringe thinking about the fact that she will pick a school like Coolley but I can't hold her hand and help her get into a program that she will not succeed in.

[wannabelawstudent]

Ok I have a question because I'm kinda in an opposite role. I have a friend who's a 3L at American and trying his hardest to convince me to go there. Wat do?

[Davidbentley]

Ok I have a question because I'm kinda in an opposite role. I have a friend who's a 3L at American and trying his hardest to convince me to go there. Wat do?

Tell him to fuck off.

[LRGhost]

Ok I have a question because I'm kinda in an opposite role. I have a friend who's a 3L at American and trying his hardest to convince me to go there. Wat do?

Say you're looking at schools.

[timbs4339]

Ok I have a question because I'm kinda in an opposite role. I have a friend who's a 3L at American and trying his hardest to convince me to go there. Wat do?

How does he explain away the 35% employment rate?

[Shmoopy]

-

[LRGhost]

You'll have someone who wasn't necessarily a top performer in high school, nor undergraduate and they graduated with a liberal arts degree or simply some degree that hasn't netted them a "great job" out of college. They often are dissatisfied with the type of work they're doing and wonder about possibilities. They'll often see that their current career/job (or even lack of one) doesn't look so great to them or doesn't seem to offer as many opportunities down the line for advancement or doing something interesting. Or perhaps they simply want more right away (and are unwilling to take the time it requires to move up in their current occupation).

Then their ruminations bring up memories of being told as a kid that lawyers and doctors make the most money and are respectable positions in society. They realize that they didn't take all the pre-reqs for medical school and/or didn't have the grades and sense that perhaps their liberal arts background might be a possible fit for law.

+1 to this. Most of my friends in law school were people who had no idea what they wanted to do, then did something shitty like working in a restaurant or retail for a year or two before decided to go. I went to an Ivy UG and these friends are going to T14s too. I kind of wonder what will happen to them. I have a friend at Boalt who grew his hair out and is enjoying being a Berkeley hippy. When will reality hit? lol

What do you mean? If they're at T14s, they have some awareness of the situation and will likely land OK. I'm a huge troll for people who say 'I'll just get Big Law from my T6 and pay off my debt that way' being dumb as fuck, but most people in law school don't know what they want to do. I also get pretty miffed at the idea that everyone has to dress or behave conservatively in LS. If he cleans up for events and OCI, who cares how he dresses?

[20130312]

Ok I have a question because I'm kinda in an opposite role. I have a friend who's a 3L at American and trying his hardest to convince me to go there. Wat do?

Explain to him that his school is a festering TTT shithole and that you are Harvard bound.

[Davidbentley]

Explain to him that his school is a festering TTT shithole and that you are Harvard bound.

Harvard bound?

Tell him to fuck off.

Seriously, why the hell are American people so damned uppity about their particular sham degree mill?