How do you determine if a school section stacks?

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bobbypin
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How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby bobbypin » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:14 pm

How do I find this information?

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stillwater
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby stillwater » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:18 pm

Inquiry 1: Is the school shitty?

Inquiry 2: Does the school have scholarships with stipulations (i.e. scholarships that are not kept by only staying in good standing)?

Inquiry 3: Is the school called Seton Hall, run by the infamous Valvoline Dean?

If 1 and 2 are true, you should be suspicious.

If 3 is true, you know they be stackin'.

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rinkrat19
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby rinkrat19 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:19 pm

I don't know if there's any for-sure way to find out, besides word-of-mouth.

A high 1L attrition rate isn't a good sign, although that's not just caused by 1Ls losing their scholarships. (It's not caused by anything good, though, so high attrition is an overall red flag.) The LSAC data page for each school lists attrition rates.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:19 pm

1) I doubt any school actually does this.
2) Even if a school does this, why would they admit to doing it?

What might be helpful though is to see how many people get scholarships with a GPA/rank requirement. That might answer your question for you in trying to see how many people will necessarily lose their scholarship, if the school gives out more of these schollies than the requirement will allow to be kept.

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BullShitWithBravado
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby BullShitWithBravado » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:34 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:1) I doubt any school actually does this.
2) Even if a school does this, why would they admit to doing it?

What might be helpful though is to see how many people get scholarships with a GPA/rank requirement. That might answer your question for you in trying to see how many people will necessarily lose their scholarship, if the school gives out more of these schollies than the requirement will allow to be kept.


To be on the safe side, don't accept a scholarship if it has stipulations.

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nickb285
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby nickb285 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:55 pm

Check the scholarship retention rates. If most (90%+) people who came into 1L with a scholarship kept it for the next two years, you're fine. If only half of them still had their scholarship by 2L, there's section stacking afoot.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:59 pm

nickb285 wrote:If only half of them still had their scholarship by 2L, there's section stacking afoot.

Half of the people with scholarships losing them tells us nothing about whether section stacking takes place.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:26 pm

BullShitWithBravado wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:1) I doubt any school actually does this.
2) Even if a school does this, why would they admit to doing it?

What might be helpful though is to see how many people get scholarships with a GPA/rank requirement. That might answer your question for you in trying to see how many people will necessarily lose their scholarship, if the school gives out more of these schollies than the requirement will allow to be kept.


To be on the safe side, don't accept a scholarship if it has stipulations.


No, scholarships with stipulations are bad because trying to predict how you will do in law school can be very difficult. (Whether conspiracy theories about section stacking are true just turns the issue of scholarships with stips from a bad decision to a horrible decision.)

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nickb285
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby nickb285 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:49 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
nickb285 wrote:If only half of them still had their scholarship by 2L, there's section stacking afoot.

Half of the people with scholarships losing them tells us nothing about whether section stacking takes place.


Fair. Amend that sentence to read "If only half of them still had their scholarship by 2L, either there's section stacking afoot or the stipulations to most of the scholarships are likely designed to make them difficult for the average entering student to meet, and either way you ought to either negotiate the stipulations or go somewhere else."

wannabelawstudent
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby wannabelawstudent » Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:06 am

Can someone explain what section stacking is?

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rinkrat19
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:17 am

wannabelawstudent wrote:Can someone explain what section stacking is?

Putting all (or many of) the scholarship recipients in one section and having a high GPA stipulation on the awards so it's mathematically impossible for them all to keep their scholarships after 1L year.

wannabelawstudent
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby wannabelawstudent » Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:25 am

rinkrat19 wrote:
wannabelawstudent wrote:Can someone explain what section stacking is?

Putting all (or many of) the scholarship recipients in one section and having a high GPA stipulation on the awards so it's mathematically impossible for them all to keep their scholarships after 1L year.

Which schools are known to do that?

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Rahviveh
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:22 pm

wannabelawstudent wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
wannabelawstudent wrote:Can someone explain what section stacking is?

Putting all (or many of) the scholarship recipients in one section and having a high GPA stipulation on the awards so it's mathematically impossible for them all to keep their scholarships after 1L year.

Which schools are known to do that?

Its something that has never been proven to take place. So nobody knows for sure

Quite simply you should just avoid any scholarships with stipulations

ajax
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby ajax » Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:30 pm

Don't give a school a financial incentive to fuck you, because you better believe they'll fuck you. Many people unfortunately only learn this lesson after taking out 200k plus in debt that cannot be discharged outside of death.

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scifiguy
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby scifiguy » Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:35 pm

define "stacks"

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:47 pm

scifiguy wrote:define "stacks"

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=203081#p6349844

(Or conversely, the post 2 posts above yours, rather than a few further back than that...)

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suralin
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby suralin » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:29 pm

scifiguy wrote:define "stacks"


:shock: :roll: :lol:

Ti Malice
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby Ti Malice » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:14 pm

It's nothing dispositive on the issue, of course, but this Quinnipiac 1L says that his school section-stacks pretty heavily: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=204468&p=6461024#p6461024. I'm surprised anyone thinks that these TTTs would be above this sort of thing.

DonDrapersAttorney wrote:QU has two day sections and they section stack the scholarship recipients pretty heavily. If you're there with a decent scholarship and you're in the scholarship heavy section it's going to be pretty difficult to keep your scholarship. The other section it's a little easier to make top 50% if you're a scholarship kid against non-scholarship kids.

BearsGrl
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby BearsGrl » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:22 pm

I went to a school that section-stacked, if by section-stacked we mean put in folks with scholarships (and GPA stips) with no scholarship offered.

And I would say the two items listed above were true: high attrition rates and scholarships w/stips.

atay
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby atay » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:52 am

bobbypin wrote:How do I find this information?


Were you asking this about Willamette? I asked a prof from there point blank in an email and this was his response. If you're asking it about a different school my advice would be to ask someone there.

"I've heard that very weird scholarship rumor before. I'm glad you raised it because I'd like to put it to rest. It's absolutely untrue. The school does not stack up scholarship recipients in one class in an effort to weed them out. It's impossible to do that. The assignment of students to sections, etc., is completely random- and is done by the registrar, who has no knowledge of aid offers. (Those offers are held as strictly confidential by the school- and stay within the admissions office and the dean's office. We run a tight ship on that front.) My guess is that one year way back, some group may have observed this as a random phenomenon and extrapolated it as a policy. And now it is an urban legend!"

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Shmoopy
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby Shmoopy » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:03 am

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Last edited by Shmoopy on Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:11 am

Shmoopy wrote:
atay wrote:
Were you asking this about Willamette? I asked a prof from there point blank in an email and this was his response. If you're asking it about a different school my advice would be to ask someone there.

"I've heard that very weird scholarship rumor before. I'm glad you raised it because I'd like to put it to rest. It's absolutely untrue. The school does not stack up scholarship recipients in one class in an effort to weed them out. It's impossible to do that. The assignment of students to sections, etc., is completely random- and is done by the registrar, who has no knowledge of aid offers. (Those offers are held as strictly confidential by the school- and stay within the admissions office and the dean's office. We run a tight ship on that front.) My guess is that one year way back, some group may have observed this as a random phenomenon and extrapolated it as a policy. And now it is an urban legend!"


The bit about the firewall between admissions and the registrar seems irrelevant, because scholarships are strongly correlated with GPA/LSAT. All they have to do is put the people with the highest GPA and LSAT into the same sections. This might not even seem like a bad idea on the face to some people -- at my UG, incoming SAT verbal/writing scores determined which "tier" of first year writing seminars you could choose from. Probably so the smart people could talk about BS theory instead of learning how to write with the tards. But we also didn't have scholarship stipulations.


Info about GPA and LSAT would come from the same place that scholarship info would come from--admissions.

While it's always possible that this might be happening, I remain pretty unconvinced without any data to back up the claim (preferably data over multiple years).

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Shmoopy
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby Shmoopy » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:19 am

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Last edited by Shmoopy on Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:34 am

Even if TTT's section stacked, it would only effect your chances by a small amount. At each individual law school the difference between a full ride, and being the last person who sucked the adcom off to get off the waitlist is too small to make a significant rise the quality of section.

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Shmoopy
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Re: How do you determine if a school section stacks?

Postby Shmoopy » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:46 am

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