Worst-Case-Scenario SURVIVAL Plan Post-Law School?

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sinfiery
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Re: Worst-Case-Scenario SURVIVAL Plan Post-Law School?

Postby sinfiery » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:27 am

She is right. But if the worry that you may never own a house with a 50k starting salary and 104k in debt to pay is the reason you choose not to attend LS, it may not be the most sound decision.

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scifiguy
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Re: Worst-Case-Scenario SURVIVAL Plan Post-Law School?

Postby scifiguy » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:34 am

sinfiery wrote:She is right. But if the worry that you may never own a house with a 50k starting salary and 104k in debt to pay is the reason you choose not to attend LS, it may not be the most sound decision.


No, I would be fine with $50K as a back-up option (assuming missed biglaw, gov't, etc.) on $104K debt.

But I still want to be sure of all the details about homeownership possibilities and such. :) So, I'm trying to be hash out all the details. Because I'm looking into other jobs too (junior right now). Kind of cost benefit. I have $0 UG debt also. I was fortunate my parents saved for my college fund and on top of that I got a scholarship (small one, albeit).

The main fear is getting no law job (hence worst-case-scenario title), in which case $104K debt is going to probably require me to move in with my parents if I ended up working like retail or as a waiter. Remember that $50K reads like a minimum ideal salary needed.

ksllaw
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Re: Worst-Case-Scenario SURVIVAL Plan Post-Law School?

Postby ksllaw » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:18 am

scifiguy wrote:So, here's an ANNUAL COST OF LIVING for my mid-sized city (think Atlanta-ish).

Housing/Rent: $9,600 ($800/mo)
Utilities: $1,800 ($150/mo)
Transportation: $6,075
~~Car Payment ($200/mo, $2,400/year)
~~Auto Insurance ($1,800/year)
~~Gasoline ($1,675/year)
~~~Service/Repairs ($200/year)
Food: $3,600 ($300/mo)
Phone/Internet: $1,440 ($120/mo)
Household Supplies: $600 ($50/mo) (Didn't know how to calculate, so just threw out a seemingly reasonable monthly. But I could be way off, since I don't check my credit card receipts. My parents pay them for me.)
Clothing: $750 (I also had no idea how to calculate this, since I shop randomly. But this seems low, since most people buy at least a couple pairs of shoes and a few dress outfits, which would blow this amt. already.) :?
Other Stuff/Misc.: $1,500 (Entertainment, Technology, Medication etc. ...)
Savings: ???


You may be underestimating some things with being single in your mid-20's to 30's and the amount of debt you can sustain just starting out.

Many of the basics of living (material possessions) are accumulated over time. Remember, when you first start out you generally have/own nothing (aside from things given to you by family usually). Everything from a microwave oven to a box of tools, all the way to large furniture and kitchenware, must be bought and accumulated over time. It's true you may not need to purchase many of those items ever again (a set of kitchen china or a good set of tools can possibly last you a lifetime or at least until you have a more stable income and financial state in your later years), but those initial costs of just starting out living alone can be quite high. You can imagine wanting a flat-screen television, which nowadays is several hundred dollars minimum. A set of beds, lamps, desks, linens, shelves, auto fluids, and so on can easily run in the thousands of dollars added together.

You can play with those calculations a bit more, but I think it's worthy to note how many things one may need that aren't merely monthly costs (particularly when first starting out in life).

On top of that, should you decide to have children, the putting away of not only your own savings and retirement money, but also money for your children's future needs as well as their current needs can greatly increase your costs beyond these calculations (granted you will receive tax breaks for some of that).

I'm not sure how many $50,000 small law firm jobs there are or how easily obtainable they are (and whether or not that salary increases substantially over time), but you may be underestimating some of your costs that could define your early career and the early prime of your life. Do think about these things and be sure to ask older or more experienced folks who you know who have lived through different life phases and understand these costs and what types of planning are needed and would be reasonable.

--------------------------------
*edited:
If you like, try the College Confidential Law School Forums ( http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/ ), where many of the lawyers/posters are in their 30's, 40's, and 50's+, who have had kids (some teens or adults even by now) and can inform you of their expenses and life phase costs to consider. There are a good number of lawyers from all sectors of law there (biglaw senior associates, biglaw hiring folks, spouses of biglaw partners, small law operators, government lawyers, and the like). It's a bit of a different crowd than here at TLS.

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scifiguy
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Re: Worst-Case-Scenario SURVIVAL Plan Post-Law School?

Postby scifiguy » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:12 am

ksllaw wrote:
You can play with those calculations a bit more, but I think it's worthy to note how many things one may need that aren't merely monthly costs (particularly when first starting out in life).


Thanks! Good point!

ksllaw wrote:*edited:
If you like, try the College Confidential Law School Forums ( http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/ ), where many of the lawyers/posters are in their 30's, 40's, and 50's+, who have had kids (some teens or adults even by now) and can inform you of their expenses and life phase costs to consider. There are a good number of lawyers from all sectors of law there (biglaw senior associates, biglaw hiring folks, spouses of biglaw partners, small law operators, government lawyers, and the like). It's a bit of a different crowd than here at TLS.


Will do!

sinfiery wrote:There was a reason banks gave everyone a mortgage for a house. If you have 50k income, you may need a decent down payment but you can find a way.


Credit is tighter nowadays and the guidelines are more stringent.

I'm researching the debt-to-income ratio requirements that would qualify a person to buy a house using a home mortgage:
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/mortgag ... uy--1.aspx
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/07 ... z2KfacN39e

But it does look like many people are struggling to get a home mortgage b/c of debt these days:
http://money.msn.com/debt-management/st ... e-shoppers

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crazycanuck
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Re: Worst-Case-Scenario SURVIVAL Plan Post-Law School?

Postby crazycanuck » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:36 pm

With home ownership comes property taxes on top of income taxes so factor that in. Home ownership is very pricey, especially if you own a house, a condo can be cheaper, but owning an actual house is very expensive. Are you handy? If your garburator clogs are you going to have to pay a plumber $200 to fix it? I dunno, taking out another 300k in loans on top of 100k with a 50k salary, plus all the additional costs, is really not the best decision you could make IMO. I would say, that home ownership at that stage, is not realistic.

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star fox
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Re: Worst-Case-Scenario SURVIVAL Plan Post-Law School?

Postby star fox » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:34 pm

Be glad you don't live in the third world and probably won't die of hunger or poor water quality?

:|

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scifiguy
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Re: Worst-Case-Scenario SURVIVAL Plan Post-Law School?

Postby scifiguy » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:35 pm

john7234797 wrote:Be glad you don't live in the third world and probably won't die of hunger or poor water quality?

:|


True. Although crime is high in many "bad" areas of the U.S.

But, interestingly, Section 8 public housing is about the same size as Europe's middle-class homes/apartments.

We have it very good in the U.S. relative to other areas of tehw orld. But size of apartment/house isn't ncessarily the best indicator of things. We didn't have free healthcare for a longtime...and Europe doesn't have the crime we do.

Otehr quality of life measures outside of how big your house is or how expensive your car is matter too. But just saying...in terms of pure/sheer size of things, the poor in the U.S. are about on par with the middle-class of Europe in many instances. The middle-class in the U.S. would be like rich in Europe.

crazycanuck wrote:With home ownership comes property taxes on top of income taxes so factor that in. Home ownership is very pricey, especially if you own a house, a condo can be cheaper, but owning an actual house is very expensive. Are you handy? If your garburator clogs are you going to have to pay a plumber $200 to fix it? I dunno, taking out another 300k in loans on top of 100k with a 50k salary, plus all the additional costs, is really not the best decision you could make IMO. I would say, that home ownership at that stage, is not realistic.


My mom told me she had to spend a thousand+ on storm damage before. A lot of home insurance doesn't cover that.

But even just tiles breaking or wall's with holes, etc. ...Repairs costs hundreds you're right. Upkeep like mowing your lawn, etc. ...more money!

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crazycanuck
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Re: Worst-Case-Scenario SURVIVAL Plan Post-Law School?

Postby crazycanuck » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:18 pm

Ah right another cost, home insurance! Mortgage payments don't cover that.

And pray you dont get mold.

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star fox
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Re: Worst-Case-Scenario SURVIVAL Plan Post-Law School?

Postby star fox » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:59 pm

scifiguy wrote:
john7234797 wrote:Be glad you don't live in the third world and probably won't die of hunger or poor water quality?

:|


True. Although crime is high in many "bad" areas of the U.S.

But, interestingly, Section 8 public housing is about the same size as Europe's middle-class homes/apartments.

We have it very good in the U.S. relative to other areas of tehw orld. But size of apartment/house isn't ncessarily the best indicator of things. We didn't have free healthcare for a longtime...and Europe doesn't have the crime we do.

Otehr quality of life measures outside of how big your house is or how expensive your car is matter too. But just saying...in terms of pure/sheer size of things, the poor in the U.S. are about on par with the middle-class of Europe in many instances. The middle-class in the U.S. would be like rich in Europe.


Europe is part of the extremely wealthy industrialized north. Think of how living in the US compares to South America, Africa, and most of Asia.

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scifiguy
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Re: Worst-Case-Scenario SURVIVAL Plan Post-Law School?

Postby scifiguy » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:18 am

bizzybone1313 wrote:All of the above posts aren't being very helpful or providing anything of much substance. This is a good idea OP. Hopefully, a good thread gets going. I am wondering about this myself. One idea I have thought of is to work in the oil field for a year, save all of that money and start my own solo practice if I were to strike out at OCI.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EDKR6zT9mo
The North Dakota oil boom is definitely one place that bucks the national employment/salaries trend.

Starting salary for truck drivers is $80,000. According to this video (not sure of the date of it), there are 18,000 job openings.

It looks like even the fast food jobs pay higher than average ($15 dollars/hour for fast food....I think the 7-Eleven was $13/hour from what I saw in the video). The thing is though, they say that housing is tough to find b/c the jobs are growing faster than housing/construction.

In some articles online, I saw people say that it's hard to find restrooms or places to shower and that some people have been living in "man camps."




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