0Ls: What's your plan B?

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scifiguy
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby scifiguy » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:08 pm

francesfarmer wrote:
scifiguy wrote:This is a great thread, btw.

I've been getting a bit worried having anxiety attacks for three months about law school.



Your chubby kitty avatar is cute I must say. :D He/she looksl like a white Garfield.


I culdn't tell if you were crossing that out to describe me or if you were saying that you were having those attacks.

But either way, for 0L's here's an emotional cry that really can make one deeply consider the costs of law school:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=192753&start=475
Being a no-offered and unemployed 3L has consistently been taking a mental toll since the beginning of the school year. Unless I am sleeping, drinking, or playing video games, I literally think about being unemployed almost all the time. I'm unable to stop feeling ill will for people who have no offered me, and the job search has no end in sight. Some days are better than others, and some weeks are better than others, but I can't stop. Counseling helps; it helps a lot. But it's not enough.

It's gotten to the point where it's beginning to interfere with my personal relationships. I used to be very social and liked to party. Now I don't go any of that, especially with my law friends, many of whom have jobs. In fact, I don't talk to many people from law school. Same goes for most non-law people. I avoid people who haven't heard because I really don't like to be asked "how I'm doing."

Every day I wish I had never come to law school, and when someone tells me they want to go, I laugh in their fucking faces.



It's so heartbreaking to hear potentially young, bright minds derailed by law school (possibly for decades). This person's pain is practically palpable. :cry:

ksllaw
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby ksllaw » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:48 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
ksllaw wrote:Post-baccalaurate in accounting.

I mentioned it elsewhere, but the good salary and stable career prospects are attractive. I've heard it said that one can literally leave the job for a year or two and come back with ease to find a job in accounting again. I'm researching the job market to double-check that claim, but it does seem so far to have some of those qualities of stability and demand I've been hearing about.

I like that it is mental work, because that's partially what attracted me to law school as well.

For those who may be interested in accounting, I'll post back here maybe with more info. as I learn it. On the other hand, feel free to teach me as well!


Yeah feel free to post or PM about this... I'd be interested in learning more



http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/bus ... nting.html
So far the best thread I've found (165 page thread so far and still counting...), "Everything You Wanted to Know or Should Know About Accounting."

I'm still researching CP, but so far it looks like the optimism is warranted.

For law school prospects, it may also be an appealing field (for those who dislike math), because accounting doesn't require much math other than basic arithmetic (I believe at the very most algebra from posts I've read) and yet is still mental labor.

Starting salary is usually between $45-75K. One can reach $100K and above in a few years.

"Jobs with Top Growth"
http://education.yahoo.net/articles/top ... ?kid=1NUJG

See: Accounting #1

***(ETA: See JimmyHuang's note and my response below re: Yahoo!'s jobs articles accuracy.)
Last edited by ksllaw on Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

ksllaw
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby ksllaw » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:19 pm

Striderite3 wrote:
ksllaw wrote:Post-baccalaurate in accounting.

I mentioned it elsewhere, but the good salary and stable career prospects are attractive. I've heard it said that one can literally leave the job for a year or two and come back with ease to find a job in accounting again. I'm researching the job market to double-check that claim, but it does seem so far to have some of those qualities of stability and demand I've been hearing about.

I like that it is mental work, because that's partially what attracted me to law school as well.

For those who may be interested in accounting, I'll post back here maybe with more info. as I learn it. On the other hand, feel free to teach me as well!


I'm currently getting my Masters in accounting. I've sat for and passed the four parts of the CPA exam. I have a full time job lined up with one of the Big Four accounting firms.

That being said, I'm still heavily considering law school. The idea of giving up a steady job at a great accounting firm is pretty nerve wracking; but there's also a part of me that's always wanted to give law school a go. I would only go to law school if I got into a specific school that is very strong in the region I want to practice in. Also, I know having a CPA/work experience at a Big Four firm won't carry much weight when I apply to law school; but I am hopeful it will carry some weight when I go through recruiting as a 1L/2L.

All that to say. Yes accounting is a great degree and great career prospects. Not to mention it's very inelastic and will be around in the good times and bad times. It would have to be a pretty good situation for me to leave my accounting firm and go to law school. Butttt there's still a part of me that wants to take the LSAT and see where I shake out.


Thanks for sharing, STrid.

Very interesting background. Any possibility you might field a few questions? :wink:

JimmyHuang
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby JimmyHuang » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:51 am



Yahoo is far from a reputable source. Most writers pull stuff out of their ass.

But to be honest, I've yet so see a legitimate source of information on employment of CPA's. Anecdotal experience does seem to suggest that accounting is stable though.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby bizzybone1313 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:04 am

I wonder if the people in the law administrations ever really lose sleep at night for ruining young people's lives because of the debt. One would think that they would at least feel a little bit bad or maybe I am naive.

ksllaw
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby ksllaw » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:44 am

JimmyHuang wrote:


Yahoo is far from a reputable source. Most writers pull stuff out of their ass.

But to be honest, I've yet so see a legitimate source of information on employment of CPA's. Anecdotal experience does seem to suggest that accounting is stable though.


Yeah, I've sometimes questioned Yahoo!'s jobs articles, such as these with projections and rankings, as well. ...Out of curiosity, was there something in particular you've seen (or lack thereof - like maybe a specified methodology?) that's made you question them or know certain a fact that they are unreliable?

For me, it's been more of a suspicion in the past, but I've never taken any further steps to investigate those suspicions about Yahoo!. Rather (for ease/convenience/possibly laziness), I've taken such articles with a grain of salt and made it a point to double-check their claims elsewhere, so that they've served more as a launching pad for things to consider rather than the final word. I think I was playing a bit fast and loose with wanting to just throw out a quick reference (as I was typing) about accounting job prospects earlier that matched my subjective perception and anecdotal evidence that I did let that slip. Bad on me! :oops: It happened to be conveniently on Yahoo!'s frontpage this week. I thought of removing the link above, but think what I'll do instead is to simply make a starred note pointing to these comments here below for a cautioned view.

Although, to be fair, Yahoo! may, in fact, be an accurate source on these things. It's just that I don't know for sure and have genuinely felt a bit leery about their claims in the past as well (when they listed paralegals as one of the top 5 fastest growing/in-demand fields). So, it's still better to be cautious than sorry. ...And since you mentioned it, I think a solid data driven and reputable source on accounting job outlooks would be a great post addition to the discussion here for anyone interested in the field. I'm going to officially nominate you for that task! :lol: But actually posts from anyone would be great. If time permits, I'll continue to post back with acct. info I come across for those interested. Thanks for the note of caution, however!

thelawdoctor
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby thelawdoctor » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:23 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:I wonder if the people in the law administrations ever really lose sleep at night for ruining young people's lives because of the debt. One would think that they would at least feel a little bit bad or maybe I am naive.


If you can't pull yourself out of the muck after a few years of practice, it's your fault not anyone elses.


If you however mean places like whittier than fail out 51% in 1L, then no I think they are soul less vampires........................

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North
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby North » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:24 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:If you can't pull yourself out of the muck after a few years of practice, it's your fault not anyone elses

The people who drown in debt are the ones that never get a chance to practice. No firm will hire them. Do you understand?

Striderite3
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby Striderite3 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:37 pm

ksllaw wrote:
Striderite3 wrote:
ksllaw wrote:Post-baccalaurate in accounting.

I mentioned it elsewhere, but the good salary and stable career prospects are attractive. I've heard it said that one can literally leave the job for a year or two and come back with ease to find a job in accounting again. I'm researching the job market to double-check that claim, but it does seem so far to have some of those qualities of stability and demand I've been hearing about.

I like that it is mental work, because that's partially what attracted me to law school as well.

For those who may be interested in accounting, I'll post back here maybe with more info. as I learn it. On the other hand, feel free to teach me as well!


I'm currently getting my Masters in accounting. I've sat for and passed the four parts of the CPA exam. I have a full time job lined up with one of the Big Four accounting firms.

That being said, I'm still heavily considering law school. The idea of giving up a steady job at a great accounting firm is pretty nerve wracking; but there's also a part of me that's always wanted to give law school a go. I would only go to law school if I got into a specific school that is very strong in the region I want to practice in. Also, I know having a CPA/work experience at a Big Four firm won't carry much weight when I apply to law school; but I am hopeful it will carry some weight when I go through recruiting as a 1L/2L.

All that to say. Yes accounting is a great degree and great career prospects. Not to mention it's very inelastic and will be around in the good times and bad times. It would have to be a pretty good situation for me to leave my accounting firm and go to law school. Butttt there's still a part of me that wants to take the LSAT and see where I shake out.


Thanks for sharing, STrid.

Very interesting background. Any possibility you might field a few questions? :wink:



Sure thing. Sorry- I'm just now checking back in this thread.

thelawdoctor
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby thelawdoctor » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:47 pm

North wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:If you can't pull yourself out of the muck after a few years of practice, it's your fault not anyone elses

The people who drown in debt are the ones that never get a chance to practice. No firm will hire them. Do you understand?


If you are talking multiple years down the road, then these are self rightous idiots who deserve what they get.
If you pass the bar you can work.
Do probono free clinics if you have to, just get that experience and work your way up.
It may feel like working at burgerking but for less pay, but just do it and get over yourself.

But the self rightous won't, they won't even sign up for IBR(thats too hard or whatever)
They will just sit there and wait to be "discovered"..................................... :?

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suralin
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby suralin » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:46 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:
North wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:If you can't pull yourself out of the muck after a few years of practice, it's your fault not anyone elses

The people who drown in debt are the ones that never get a chance to practice. No firm will hire them. Do you understand?


If you are talking multiple years down the road, then these are self rightous idiots who deserve what they get.
If you pass the bar you can work.
Do probono free clinics if you have to, just get that experience and work your way up.
It may feel like working at burgerking but for less pay, but just do it and get over yourself.

But the self rightous won't, they won't even sign up for IBR(thats too hard or whatever)
They will just sit there and wait to be "discovered"..................................... :?


Lol this conservative, boomerific, personal responsibility, bootstrapping shtick never gets old.

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North
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby North » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:17 pm

Suralin wrote:Lol this conservative, boomerific, personal responsibility, bootstrapping shtick never gets old.

I try not to get mad on the Internet, but this guy spouts some of the most ignorant SHITBOOMER drivel I've heard in a while. Probably waiting in line at the bank to cash his Social Security check, fuming about how we young people just don't want to "work our way up."

Hard to work for free at the pro bono clinic when that month's $2,500 student loan bill rolls in and your second job at Burger King doesn't cover it. We're so self-righteous, we can't even declare bankruptcy. We deserve it, right? That's what we earned after seven years of higher education, right?

ksllaw
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby ksllaw » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:56 pm

Striderite3 wrote:
That being said, I'm still heavily considering law school. The idea of giving up a steady job at a great accounting firm is pretty nerve wracking; but there's also a part of me that's always wanted to give law school a go. I would only go to law school if I got into a specific school that is very strong in the region I want to practice in. Also, I know having a CPA/work experience at a Big Four firm won't carry much weight when I apply to law school; but I am hopeful it will carry some weight when I go through recruiting as a 1L/2L.

All that to say. Yes accounting is a great degree and great career prospects. Not to mention it's very inelastic and will be around in the good times and bad times. It would have to be a pretty good situation for me to leave my accounting firm and go to law school. Butttt there's still a part of me that wants to take the LSAT and see where I shake out.


Thanks for sharing, STrid.

Very interesting background. Any possibility you might field a few questions? :wink:[/quote]

Sure thing. Sorry- I'm just now checking back in this thread.[/quote]


Thanks so much, Striderite3:

I'll see if I can generate a list of questions (that may be helpful to others too). But a couple that occur to me off the top of my head are:

a.) Must one have to have a BS in Accounting to do the MSA? I know some graduate programs (in other fields) don't always require a bachelor's in the same field. I wonder if accounting has that possibility?

b.) As someone with a bachelor's degree already and thinking of doing a second/post-bac degree in accounting, how quickly do you think a person could finish (if full-time)?

Not to worry if you're not sure about either of the above questions! I'm aware they're not technically accounting specific, but more like curriculum/program sorts of questions, but thought I'd just ask anyways since I'm here. lol. :)

I'll see what I can come up with, but thanks so much again in advance.

(p.s. Would it be possible for you to work a few years prior to law school? Your situation sounds pretty good at the moment. I was thinking that a big advantage would be you'd have some money saved up and could possibly greatly reduce any costs associated with LS that sometimes becomes a problem for those going straight into LS. I guess for me, I'm always thinking of reducing risk associated with LS, so that's why that came to mind when looking at your situation. ...Of course, if you landed a full-ride, then that's totally different!)

Striderite3
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby Striderite3 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:23 pm

ksllaw wrote:
Striderite3 wrote:
That being said, I'm still heavily considering law school. The idea of giving up a steady job at a great accounting firm is pretty nerve wracking; but there's also a part of me that's always wanted to give law school a go. I would only go to law school if I got into a specific school that is very strong in the region I want to practice in. Also, I know having a CPA/work experience at a Big Four firm won't carry much weight when I apply to law school; but I am hopeful it will carry some weight when I go through recruiting as a 1L/2L.

All that to say. Yes accounting is a great degree and great career prospects. Not to mention it's very inelastic and will be around in the good times and bad times. It would have to be a pretty good situation for me to leave my accounting firm and go to law school. Butttt there's still a part of me that wants to take the LSAT and see where I shake out.


Thanks for sharing, STrid.

Very interesting background. Any possibility you might field a few questions? :wink:


Sure thing. Sorry- I'm just now checking back in this thread.[/quote]


Thanks so much, Striderite3:

I'll see if I can generate a list of questions (that may be helpful to others too). But a couple that occur to me off the top of my head are:

a.) Must one have to have a BS in Accounting to do the MSA? I know some graduate programs (in other fields) don't always require a bachelor's in the same field. I wonder if accounting has that possibility?

b.) As someone with a bachelor's degree already and thinking of doing a second/post-bac degree in accounting, how quickly do you think a person could finish (if full-time)?

Not to worry if you're not sure about either of the above questions! I'm aware they're not technically accounting specific, but more like curriculum/program sorts of questions, but thought I'd just ask anyways since I'm here. lol. :)

I'll see what I can come up with, but thanks so much again in advance.

(p.s. Would it be possible for you to work a few years prior to law school? Your situation sounds pretty good at the moment. I was thinking that a big advantage would be you'd have some money saved up and could possibly greatly reduce any costs associated with LS that sometimes becomes a problem for those going straight into LS. I guess for me, I'm always thinking of reducing risk associated with LS, so that's why that came to mind when looking at your situation. ...Of course, if you landed a full-ride, then that's totally different!)[/quote]

A) I don't believe you HAVE to have a BS in accounting before pursuing your MAcc. However, at my school and most of our peer schools, they require you to have your BS in accounting. It just removes a lot of the hassle associated with prereqs and whatnot. I would think you can do your MAcc as other schools and not have a BS in accounting but I may be mistaken. However, most people in my program are in the program purely because they need 150 hours to sit for the CPA. So if you can get the 150 hour requirement without getting a MAcc then that's a very possible option. Just depends.

B) I went the traditional route: BS degree in 4 years, internship with Big Four, MAcc program. So all in all 5 years. If you are starting from scratch (zero college coursework)then I think 5 years is abut the minimum. If you already have a degree in something else then you most likely have several general prereqs knocked out already. There were people in my undegrad who had already graduated with a "flexible" degree (i.e. finance, management, poly sci, etc.), and couldn't find work so they came back for their accounting degree. These students only needed the 8 required accounting classes because they already had all the general ed prereqs taken care of. Once you get into the MAcc program stage it's more dependent in your situation and what you're looking for. There are tons of programs whose bread and butter is students who work during the day and go to class at night.

Yeah my plan would be to work for at least one year before entering law school. I have passed the four parts of the CPA but I still need to work for a year to meet the experience requirement to get my license. And yes, I would only go to law school if I felt the risk of finishing below median was too big of a financial risk to take on.

thelawdoctor
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby thelawdoctor » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:17 pm

North wrote:
Suralin wrote:Lol this conservative, boomerific, personal responsibility, bootstrapping shtick never gets old.

I try not to get mad on the Internet, but this guy spouts some of the most ignorant SHITBOOMER drivel I've heard in a while. Probably waiting in line at the bank to cash his Social Security check, fuming about how we young people just don't want to "work our way up."

Hard to work for free at the pro bono clinic when that month's $2,500 student loan bill rolls in and your second job at Burger King doesn't cover it. We're so self-righteous, we can't even declare bankruptcy. We deserve it, right? That's what we earned after seven years of higher education, right?


It's easier just to blame daddy and everyone else for not holding your hand tight enough huh? :cry:

And if you havn't figured out IBR yet, you must have your finger too deep in your ears to do much else either.

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BlaqBella
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:29 pm

Nursing is my backup. I already have several courses under my belt for a Bachelor of Science Nursing degree. At least my BSN can take me overseas with ease.

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stillwater
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby stillwater » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:31 pm

BlaqBella wrote:Nursing is my backup. I already have several courses under my belt for a Bachelor of Science Nursing degree. At least my BSN can take me overseas with ease.


Nursing is the backdoor to biglaw.

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BlaqBella
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:32 pm

stillwater wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:Nursing is my backup. I already have several courses under my belt for a Bachelor of Science Nursing degree. At least my BSN can take me overseas with ease.


Nursing is the backdoor to biglaw.


Huh?

thelawdoctor
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby thelawdoctor » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:34 pm

BlaqBella wrote:
stillwater wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:Nursing is my backup. I already have several courses under my belt for a Bachelor of Science Nursing degree. At least my BSN can take me overseas with ease.


Nursing is the backdoor to biglaw.


Huh?


just what he views as a snarky canned reply to everything.
don't overthink it.

"over thinking is the backdoor to biglaw..............." :roll:

ksllaw
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby ksllaw » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:35 pm

BlaqBella wrote:Nursing is my backup. I already have several courses under my belt for a Bachelor of Science Nursing degree. At least my BSN can take me overseas with ease.


viewtopic.php?f=10&t=202111
43% of Nursing Grads Can't Find Jobs

Have you seen this thread yet?

thelawdoctor
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby thelawdoctor » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:36 pm

ksllaw wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:Nursing is my backup. I already have several courses under my belt for a Bachelor of Science Nursing degree. At least my BSN can take me overseas with ease.


http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0&t=202111
43% of Nursing Grads Can't Find Jobs

Have you seen this thread yet?



-Depends on what type of "nurse" you are talking about.

Hell, go down a peg more as a CNA if you really want "security"...............if you want "pay" avoid medical all together unless it involves a doctorate though.
Last edited by thelawdoctor on Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BlaqBella
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:40 pm

ksllaw wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:Nursing is my backup. I already have several courses under my belt for a Bachelor of Science Nursing degree. At least my BSN can take me overseas with ease.


viewtopic.php?f=10&t=202111
43% of Nursing Grads Can't Find Jobs

Have you seen this thread yet?


Yes, I have, but I have connections outside the USA where newly minted nurses are paid quite well. In the event I could not have landed a position here I have options elsewhere.

I was also planning to only apply to two programs - one at Duke and another at a school where stipends are given and placements guaranteed upon graduation. I was confident in my ability to be accepted in either or both. I also told myself that if I have to take on debt to get a BSN it would have to be a case where a job placement was guaranteed and/or I had the option to work and get a percentage back of what I paid + a free Master's in Nursing (in whatever specialty) after my BSN. Duke offers this.

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BlaqBella
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:41 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:
ksllaw wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:Nursing is my backup. I already have several courses under my belt for a Bachelor of Science Nursing degree. At least my BSN can take me overseas with ease.


viewtopic.php?f=10&t=202111
43% of Nursing Grads Can't Find Jobs

Have you seen this thread yet?


Those are mostly RN trying to find RN work.
LPN and the like are always needed.

-Depends on what type of "nurse" you are talking about.

Hell, go down a peg more as a CNA if you really want "security"...............if you want "pay" avoid medical all together unless it involves a doctorate though.


Article actually mostly talks about LPNs and RNs. Not BSN RNs. There is a difference. I intended to get my BSN which has better placement rates than RNs without a Bachelor's.

thelawdoctor
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby thelawdoctor » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:51 pm

BlaqBella wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:
ksllaw wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:Nursing is my backup. I already have several courses under my belt for a Bachelor of Science Nursing degree. At least my BSN can take me overseas with ease.


http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0&t=202111
43% of Nursing Grads Can't Find Jobs

Have you seen this thread yet?


Those are mostly RN trying to find RN work.
LPN and the like are always needed.

-Depends on what type of "nurse" you are talking about.

Hell, go down a peg more as a CNA if you really want "security"...............if you want "pay" avoid medical all together unless it involves a doctorate though.


Article actually mostly talks about LPNs and RNs. Not BSN RNs. There is a difference. I intended to get my BSN which has better placement rates than RNs without a Bachelor's.


DNP now there you go.......................nurses that can go "oh hell no, I be a DOCTOR NOW!!!" :roll:

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BlaqBella
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Re: 0Ls: What's your plan B?

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:54 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:DNP now there you go.......................nurses that can go "oh hell no, I be a DOCTOR NOW!!!" :roll:


:lol: :lol:

Actually, they can open up their own clinics and administer meds. Yes indeed. NPs are needed.

Anyway, I chose nursing as an alternative career should I need one because of the vast options and employers willingness to pay for your advancement.




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