How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
throw-away-soon
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:57 pm

LRGhost wrote:Ignore the idiot saying 'tldr don't do drugs lol'. I'd rather be a burnout with a chance at redemption than a boring striver who's afraid of the subway.

That said, dude, you're nowhere near being better. I have a friend in a similar situation, insomnia, all of that, and part of his problem is that he's not honest about his condition. He knows his sick and repeats his psych's diagnosis, but when it comes down to it, he blames his parents, his work situation, and all of these external influences for his episodes. Sure, they may not help, but what it comes down is that he's sick. And he can get better. And you're sick. And you can get better. But you need to acknowledge that you're sick. Talking about 'stress not affecting' you because of a philosophic existentialism, that's just dumb dude. You can go to sleep knowing it's all pointless and ashes to ashes and dust to dust and all of that, but when you're in it, you care. And that's the point people are trying to make. Can you handle law school or being a lawyer? I don't know. You don't know. But if you want to do it, by all means dude, go for it. But do get healthy and do recognize that self-imposed barricades preventing you from reaching that goal.


I'm serious, stress isn't a problem for me. I don't think my life or anything I do matters, so I don't have anything to stress about. All I want to do is do something I enjoy, find interesting, and that helps others, and I can achieve all three through law.

I'm not "sick." I'm watching my friend battle a rare form of cancer, and odds are she is not going to make it. I'm watching her wither away, I can't see her for weeks when she's getting treated, and she honestly looks awful. She is SICK. I'm not. Everything is pretty much me self destructing and being a dumb ass.

I agree I have some issues, but it's not debilitating. It's something I have to deal with, but I just need to find a better way to deal with it. I have an idea of what meds have and have not worked, and once this sleeping thing is resolved I'll feel a lot better.

That's a matter of getting set up with a good pysch, and I actually found one that specializes in dual diagnosis, which isn't that common, and I'm getting hooked up with them tomorrow. It'll take 2-4 months to figure out the meds, which will be plenty of time. I know what I did wrong last semester, so it's just continuing to put distance between me and my using friends.

I've been dealing with all these professionals for over 5 years, so I honestly do know at this point what to look for in a doctor, how many times to see them, what type of rehab program, how often to see my therapist, warning signs, etc;. I just need to put everything together at this point. I've always neglected one area, but I do honestly know what works for me.
fallingup wrote:
Ignore the idiot saying 'tldr don't do drugs lol'. I'd rather be a burnout with a chance at redemption than a boring striver who's afraid of the subway.


Seriously? This is not what you tell an active addict. Not helpful. I'm sad for people who believe this dichotomy exists and drug use is what defines it.

I would really like OP to come back to this thread in a year and not recognize himself in his posts. His annoyance and excuses and shunting of the issues are trademark addiction. I have been down this road myself and rehab didn't so much as scratch the SURFACE. You don't understand how much you didn't see about your own addiction until years after it was over. (Truly over. As in, you don't think about drugs for months at a time.) Addiction has nothing to do with the DUIs, the legal run-ins, the psychiatrists, the medication regimens - it has everything to do with the mentality. The excuses, denials, and the self-destructive mental fixation on being a different person than sober people are.

This has nothing to do with the OP's original question which is whether a career in law is viable for him. I'm sure it is viable. I suggest the OP look into his state's bar requirements and speak to lawyers who have been through similar things. For my state, it says the following issues are basis for further inquiry of an applicant to the bar: unlawful conduct (including arrests where no conviction resulted), evidence of drug abuse/dependency, and, importantly, omission of relevant information on the application for admission to the bar. This is what it says about drug abuse specifically:

An applicant who asserts rehabilitation from prior misconduct which bears adversely upon the applicant’s character and fitness shall be required to produce clear and convincing evidence of such rehabilitation, which may include but are not limited to the following elements:

1. Absence of recent misconduct

2. Strict compliance with the specific conditions of any disciplinary, judicial, administrative or other order, where applicable

3. Impeccable character and moral standing in the community

4. Good reputation for professional ability, where applicable

5. Sufficiency of the punishment including payment of fines and restitution made; including the restitution of funds or property, where applicable

6. Applicant's current attitude about prior offenses (acceptance or responsibility and renunciation of past wrongdoing and remorse)

7. Lack of malice and ill feeling toward those who by duty were compelled to bring about the disciplinary, judicial, administrative or other proceeding

8. Personal assurances, supported by corroborating evidence, of a desire and intention to conduct one's self in an exemplary fashion in the future

9. Applicant's constructive activities and accomplishments subsequent to the criminal conviction

10. Applicant's candor, sincerity and full disclosure in character and fitness proceedings

11. Positive actions beyond those one would do for self benefit including but not limited to working as a guardian ad litem, volunteering on a regular basis with shelters for the homeless or victims of domestic violence or maintaining substantial involvement in other charitable, community or educational organizations whose value system, overall mission and activities are directed to good deeds and humanitarian concerns impacting a broad base of citizens

12. Demonstration of the applicant's understanding of the responsibility to the administration of justice and the practice of law

Merely showing that an individual is now living as and doing those things that this person should have done throughout life, although necessary to prove rehabilitation, does not prove that the individual has undertaken a useful and constructive place in society. The requirement of a positive action is appropriate for applicants for admission to the bar because service to one’s community is an implied obligation to members of the Bar.

The Board will not consider witness testimony or evidence offered by a witness in support of the applicant on any issue listed above unless the witness has been fully informed of the misconduct before offering the evidence.


Basically, I suggest that the OP 1) do some serious introspection for the sake of his own health, 2) carefully document every single instance of legal trouble and subsequent rehabilitation and submit ALL of this information when the bar time comes, and 3) participate in some offsetting positive community activities that he can include on his application.


Few things are as annoying as recoverying addicts thinking they're qualified to give unwanted treatment and medical advice. I asked people to stop doing that, because I am actually see PROFESSIONALS for treatment and treatment advice.

I am not "making excuses" for my situation. I am citing the direct causes of them. I fluctuate between a lack of serotonin, natural levels, and an excess of it. Those changes directly result in actual, real, substantial mood alterations, which, according to extensive medical research, are most effectively treated using mood stabilizers, and other medications. Maybe you're one of those hard line AA/NA people who think you aren't truly sober if you're on pyschiatric meds, but trying to say an actual, chronic, incurable mental health condition is "just an excuse" and "annoys" you, is incredibly ignorant. Perhaps you're just old school and don't really believe in mental health conditions, but if there was some magical, non pharmacological way of treating my condition, why the fuck wouldn't I do that?

Going from a suicide attempt to hyper insomnia, uncontrollable racing thoughts and high levels of irritability within a 6 week span isn't fake, and it isn't fun. It's not some manufactured excuse to deny responsibility for my drug problems, but it would be idiotic not to treat the underlying cause for my addiction. Saying that's "an excuse" is honestly offensive.

I remember in high school my anxiety was so bad, even though I was cool with basically everybody in my class, I was so uncomfortable asking people to sit with them at lunch, I would either just go and sit in the library alone, go outside and smoke and listen to music in my car, or sit in a bathroom. I literally wouldn't call anyone on the phone, because my heart would race. I had panic attacks during class periodically. The depression was bad enough that I cut myself for months, sometimes would just have random crying spells at work or school, and alcohol, weed, pills, made it all manageable. I didn't feel crazy. In college all of those things were much easier to get, and socially acceptable.

I honestly wouldn't have done any hard drugs if I could manage my moods. Panic attacks, manic episodes, depression, suicide attempts, all that stuff is REAL for me. It's real for a lot of people. And it's crippling, it's debilitating at times, and it's hard to deal with. It's not like I just started using for shit and giggles. And that's why I basically went all in with opiates, and not stimulants or uppers.

I hate when people imply that citing mental health problems is eqivulent to "making up an excuse." Half of people with my diagnosis develop SUDs, and I've heard up to 75% of addicts meat the criteria for at least one mental health diagnosis. That whole mind over matter thing is a bunch of outdated, unsupported bullshit. If you really were that involved with recovery, you'd know that legitimate, successful treatment programs and centers are pushing to treat the underlying causes of addiction.

Sorry for that, but it irks me when people discount pyschiatric illness and say people are "too focused" on finding the right medications.

Trust me, I've lived with this for over two decades. I know if I could just control my moods, "snap out" of depression, or "just calm down" or "just go to sleep," I would. Anybody would if they could. Usually people don't choose to feel crazy.

I actually do a lot of community service, I've volunteered the past 10 years with the same organization. I worked in outreach and with at risk populations. I extensively researched my states bar before enrolling, and the Dean assured me I would pass last spring as long as I chilled out. The C&F said the situation isn't hopeless, and as long as the school didn't put stipulations on my return, I should be fine. I am going to consult with him after my trial.

My state is okay with addiction/mental health issues as long as they CURRENTLY are not an issue.

I have fully documented all of my mental health treatment, I have a record of every professional I have seen, and have a letter from the inpatient place in December for court (I will get one from my current rehab, my therapist confirming treatment, and the new pysch that I have an apt)/.

throw-away-soon
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:24 am

Ugh, I just talked to the PD's office and the March 6th thing is just signing paper work and getting a pre trial conference or something pre trial scheduled. I'll get my judge and lawyer then. I didn't know this was such a long process. But the good thing is I'm applying for jobs and since court hasn't happened I still have a clean record.

User avatar
fatduck
Posts: 4186
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby fatduck » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:01 am

throw-away-soon wrote:Ugh, I just talked to the PD's office and the March 6th thing is just signing paper work and getting a pre trial conference or something pre trial scheduled. I'll get my judge and lawyer then. I didn't know this was such a long process. But the good thing is I'm applying for jobs and since court hasn't happened I still have a clean record.

um, every job application i've ever seen has asked if you have any pending criminal charges

throw-away-soon
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:08 pm

fatduck wrote:
throw-away-soon wrote:Ugh, I just talked to the PD's office and the March 6th thing is just signing paper work and getting a pre trial conference or something pre trial scheduled. I'll get my judge and lawyer then. I didn't know this was such a long process. But the good thing is I'm applying for jobs and since court hasn't happened I still have a clean record.

um, every job application i've ever seen has asked if you have any pending criminal charges


Not one's I've applied for. I have three different PT jobs that pay over $15 an hour that didn't require a formal application or background check. The two paralegal positions that I applied and interviewed for only requested a resume and cover letter, no background check. The job applications at several major universities I applied to didn't ask, nor did a major hospital (top 10 nationally), my current job didn't, and maybe 5 or 6 jobs I've applied to have asked about pending charges, one asked about ARD.

I don't know where you're applying to, but I very rarely see an application that asks about pending charges.

User avatar
fatduck
Posts: 4186
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby fatduck » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:37 pm

throw-away-soon wrote:
fatduck wrote:
throw-away-soon wrote:Ugh, I just talked to the PD's office and the March 6th thing is just signing paper work and getting a pre trial conference or something pre trial scheduled. I'll get my judge and lawyer then. I didn't know this was such a long process. But the good thing is I'm applying for jobs and since court hasn't happened I still have a clean record.

um, every job application i've ever seen has asked if you have any pending criminal charges


Not one's I've applied for. I have three different PT jobs that pay over $15 an hour that didn't require a formal application or background check. The two paralegal positions that I applied and interviewed for only requested a resume and cover letter, no background check. The job applications at several major universities I applied to didn't ask, nor did a major hospital (top 10 nationally), my current job didn't, and maybe 5 or 6 jobs I've applied to have asked about pending charges, one asked about ARD.

I don't know where you're applying to, but I very rarely see an application that asks about pending charges.

i misunderstood and thought you were applying for legal jobs

throw-away-soon
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:49 pm

^
No, some paralagel/legal assistant/legal secretary jobs, but I only went to LS for 2 months.

User avatar
JDndMSW
Posts: 602
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:32 am

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby JDndMSW » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:17 pm

I have been following this thread and I really feel for you. I am however confused about you insisting that you know you are ready for school when your mental health has yet to be stabilized. Yeah it MAY take 2-4 months for you to get your meds figured out or it could take a lot longer. I know you say stress doesn't effect your addictions but it is pretty common for it to effect those with mood disorders (from what I read I am pretty sure you are bipolar). I know from watching my sister that the condition can be a tremendous thing for some to overcome. She has been diagnosed and on meds/regularly seeing a psych for two years and just had a suicide attempt relapse that had her in an 8 hour a day treatment center. I am just somewhat confused how you can be so optimistic abut figuring it out in 4 months when you were unsuccessful and doing so in two decades. I am sorry for posting this as you want to know about C&F stuff. I think one thing to help your case is to definitely find some stable help and stick with it. I wish you the best of luck though.

throw-away-soon
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:39 pm

JDndMSW wrote:I have been following this thread and I really feel for you. I am however confused about you insisting that you know you are ready for school when your mental health has yet to be stabilized. Yeah it MAY take 2-4 months for you to get your meds figured out or it could take a lot longer. I know you say stress doesn't effect your addictions but it is pretty common for it to effect those with mood disorders (from what I read I am pretty sure you are bipolar). I know from watching my sister that the condition can be a tremendous thing for some to overcome. She has been diagnosed and on meds/regularly seeing a psych for two years and just had a suicide attempt relapse that had her in an 8 hour a day treatment center. I am just somewhat confused how you can be so optimistic abut figuring it out in 4 months when you were unsuccessful and doing so in two decades. I am sorry for posting this as you want to know about C&F stuff. I think one thing to help your case is to definitely find some stable help and stick with it. I wish you the best of luck though.


Thanks.

I've had periods of stability, so I do know what meds have worked, and how long they take to work. I would just stop taking them after a I stabilized, and went back out. I've been on most of the common rx for my issues, and it's just about staying on them for more than two months...if not, I have employment options. I have another interview tomorrow, a postition that pays $22/hr for up to 40 hrs a week. I have a PT jobs in the fall already, and I'm applying for a fellowship that is recruiting recent BA's in the social sciences that have used human services like pysch's/therapists/rehab...so if I get that I would take a year off to do that.
If things aren't better (they are improving), I can take more time off, but I definitely would prefer to be in school and to start doing what I love.
I finally found a good therapist (I've seen over 10), been with her for a year next month, found a good pysch, a good outpatient program...so it is coming together.
I've only been "in treatment" since July 2009, and of that on meds daily for maybe 10 months. I'm at the point where I'm sick of using and just want to get my shit together. I haven't wanted that yet.

User avatar
SemperLegal
Posts: 1333
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:28 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby SemperLegal » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:55 pm

throw-away-soon wrote:I've been dealing with all these professionals for over 5 years, so I honestly do know at this point what to look for in a doctor, how many times to see them, what type of rehab program, how often to see my therapist, warning signs, etc;. I just need to put everything together at this point. I've always neglected one area, but I do honestly know what works for me.


Brother. Listen to me. You don't know what works to fix you, because you are still broken. You are among a group of people who have walked a similar path as you, and trust us, you are far from the end of it.

Please, please, please put law school off and work on yourself. No matter what your triggers are (boredom, stress, meaninglessness, loneliness, social anxiety, new people, other users, etc.) law school has them in spades. Its not the place to go without at least a year being clean and sober.

You are not a bad person, but you are fucking up really, really bad right now. Behind the mania, part of you knows this. If you live in the San Fran Bay Area, send me a PM.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22835
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:24 pm

Dude, I totally wish you good luck and think that you will be able to get ahead of all this. You've mentioned a few times that when you're on your meds, all is well, that you know what meds work and how long they take to work - but then you've also mentioned not wanting to be on meds and that you go off the meds once you're stabilized. Why is that?

throw-away-soon
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:50 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Dude, I totally wish you good luck and think that you will be able to get ahead of all this. You've mentioned a few times that when you're on your meds, all is well, that you know what meds work and how long they take to work - but then you've also mentioned not wanting to be on meds and that you go off the meds once you're stabilized. Why is that?


A lot of people with my diagnosis do the same thing. I guess I'd like to think I don't have a chronic condition, and there is a "cure" for it. Some of it is just not liking taking pills everyday to feel "normal."

I've been a heavy drug user since I was a teenager, and I've always had an issue with self loathing because I was using a drug everyday, I was dependent on a substance. In my mind, the rx meds do a lot of the same things illegal ones do, in terms of increases levels of things like serotonin or dopeamine, and taking a pill everyday is a type of addiction or dependency, even if it doesn't result in a high.

I've lived too many years shoving shit down my veins, up my nose, etc, and part of me is just sick of taking anything everyday to feel stable. It sucks having to accept you can't feel sane without taking drugs everyday. I'm willing to do that for a while, and my pysch and therapist have said we'll talk about getting off of them after I have a sustained level of stability over an extended period of time.

The other issue is some of the medications require regular blood work because they can cause serious health issues if the levels are too high, can impact cholasterol levels, and one of them causes long term liver damage. It's kind of like, to me, I finally get off drugs that damage my liver, and luckily avoided any serious damage. My reward? Going on a medication that will fuck my liver.

Pretty much every effective drug I've been on has long term health implications. One of them may impare cognitive functioning, so the pysch told me to try it now to make sure it doesn't impact me acadmically.

People who don't know a lot about pharmacology don't realize it seems like just taking meds is an easy solution, but they don't realize that having to take them for your life, and that equates to health problems down the road. The worse thing is there aren't any meds made specifically for my diagnosis: they use anti seizue medications as a stabilizer, and they have yet to understand why they're effective. Meaning they can't just make a new med, because they don't know much about treatment.


I really want to join the JAG Corps, and you have to be off of all meds for at least one year without symptoms of a relapse, in order to be accepted. I know it's a huge long shot to get in to that program, especially if you don't attend a top school, but I've always wanted to serve, in some non combat capacity, with the military. It just sucks they can deny you for habing a MH condition. I know one of the academies revoked a football offer to a kid because he attempted suicide.

Yeah, I should focus on the short term, but I just keep hoping one day it'll be fixed. It's a stupid, but there's not much hope when I'm told by dr's it's lifelong and incurable...

User avatar
SemperLegal
Posts: 1333
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:28 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby SemperLegal » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:43 pm

throw-away-soon wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Dude, I totally wish you good luck and think that you will be able to get ahead of all this. You've mentioned a few times that when you're on your meds, all is well, that you know what meds work and how long they take to work - but then you've also mentioned not wanting to be on meds and that you go off the meds once you're stabilized. Why is that?


A lot of people with my diagnosis do the same thing. I guess I'd like to think I don't have a chronic condition, and there is a "cure" for it. Some of it is just not liking taking pills everyday to feel "normal."

I've been a heavy drug user since I was a teenager, and I've always had an issue with self loathing because I was using a drug everyday, I was dependent on a substance. In my mind, the rx meds do a lot of the same things illegal ones do, in terms of increases levels of things like serotonin or dopeamine, and taking a pill everyday is a type of addiction or dependency, even if it doesn't result in a high.

I've lived too many years shoving shit down my veins, up my nose, etc, and part of me is just sick of taking anything everyday to feel stable. It sucks having to accept you can't feel sane without taking drugs everyday. I'm willing to do that for a while, and my pysch and therapist have said we'll talk about getting off of them after I have a sustained level of stability over an extended period of time.

The other issue is some of the medications require regular blood work because they can cause serious health issues if the levels are too high, can impact cholasterol levels, and one of them causes long term liver damage. It's kind of like, to me, I finally get off drugs that damage my liver, and luckily avoided any serious damage. My reward? Going on a medication that will fuck my liver.

Pretty much every effective drug I've been on has long term health implications. One of them may impare cognitive functioning, so the pysch told me to try it now to make sure it doesn't impact me acadmically.

People who don't know a lot about pharmacology don't realize it seems like just taking meds is an easy solution, but they don't realize that having to take them for your life, and that equates to health problems down the road. The worse thing is there aren't any meds made specifically for my diagnosis: they use anti seizue medications as a stabilizer, and they have yet to understand why they're effective. Meaning they can't just make a new med, because they don't know much about treatment.


I really want to join the JAG Corps, and you have to be off of all meds for at least one year without symptoms of a relapse, in order to be accepted. I know it's a huge long shot to get in to that program, especially if you don't attend a top school, but I've always wanted to serve, in some non combat capacity, with the military. It just sucks they can deny you for habing a MH condition. I know one of the academies revoked a football offer to a kid because he attempted suicide.

Yeah, I should focus on the short term, but I just keep hoping one day it'll be fixed. It's a stupid, but there's not much hope when I'm told by dr's it's lifelong and incurable...



You won't be a JAG ever, the military asks for a medical release to talk to every psychologist and insurance company when they adjudicate you for a security clearance, so you can't lie. Additionally, felony arrests are nearly always a unwaiverable disqualifying factor. http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningt ... urotic.htm

Do you think a selection officer/recruiter is going to want to go fight a general for a criminal waiver, an academic waiver, a substance abuse waiver, and a mental health waiver, putting his reputation on line, because you really want to serve without being out in danger?

Or is he going to select one of the hundred top of there class, squeaky clean, former athletes that are vying for the few remaining spots?

throw-away-soon
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:01 pm

SemperLegal wrote:
throw-away-soon wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Dude, I totally wish you good luck and think that you will be able to get ahead of all this. You've mentioned a few times that when you're on your meds, all is well, that you know what meds work and how long they take to work - but then you've also mentioned not wanting to be on meds and that you go off the meds once you're stabilized. Why is that?


A lot of people with my diagnosis do the same thing. I guess I'd like to think I don't have a chronic condition, and there is a "cure" for it. Some of it is just not liking taking pills everyday to feel "normal."

I've been a heavy drug user since I was a teenager, and I've always had an issue with self loathing because I was using a drug everyday, I was dependent on a substance. In my mind, the rx meds do a lot of the same things illegal ones do, in terms of increases levels of things like serotonin or dopeamine, and taking a pill everyday is a type of addiction or dependency, even if it doesn't result in a high.

I've lived too many years shoving shit down my veins, up my nose, etc, and part of me is just sick of taking anything everyday to feel stable. It sucks having to accept you can't feel sane without taking drugs everyday. I'm willing to do that for a while, and my pysch and therapist have said we'll talk about getting off of them after I have a sustained level of stability over an extended period of time.

The other issue is some of the medications require regular blood work because they can cause serious health issues if the levels are too high, can impact cholasterol levels, and one of them causes long term liver damage. It's kind of like, to me, I finally get off drugs that damage my liver, and luckily avoided any serious damage. My reward? Going on a medication that will fuck my liver.

Pretty much every effective drug I've been on has long term health implications. One of them may impare cognitive functioning, so the pysch told me to try it now to make sure it doesn't impact me acadmically.

People who don't know a lot about pharmacology don't realize it seems like just taking meds is an easy solution, but they don't realize that having to take them for your life, and that equates to health problems down the road. The worse thing is there aren't any meds made specifically for my diagnosis: they use anti seizue medications as a stabilizer, and they have yet to understand why they're effective. Meaning they can't just make a new med, because they don't know much about treatment.


I really want to join the JAG Corps, and you have to be off of all meds for at least one year without symptoms of a relapse, in order to be accepted. I know it's a huge long shot to get in to that program, especially if you don't attend a top school, but I've always wanted to serve, in some non combat capacity, with the military. It just sucks they can deny you for habing a MH condition. I know one of the academies revoked a football offer to a kid because he attempted suicide.

Yeah, I should focus on the short term, but I just keep hoping one day it'll be fixed. It's a stupid, but there's not much hope when I'm told by dr's it's lifelong and incurable...



You won't be a JAG ever, the military asks for a medical release to talk to every psychologist and insurance company when they adjudicate you for a security clearance, so you can't lie. Additionally, felony arrests are nearly always a unwaiverable disqualifying factor. http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningt ... urotic.htm

Do you think a selection officer/recruiter is going to want to go fight a general for a criminal waiver, an academic waiver, a substance abuse waiver, and a mental health waiver, putting his reputation on line, because you really want to serve without being out in danger?

Or is he going to select one of the hundred top of there class, squeaky clean, former athletes that are vying for the few remaining spots?



I don't have a felony, just summary and misdeamonor's.
And the charges are most likely getting withdrawn in a year, and at least one more charge will be withdawn.
I am a former athlete actually, I was all state in HS and made regional teams, made regional and all section in college. Academic all american as well. I walked on a second team for a sport I never played comptetively, made varsity, and played for a year.

My cousin was allowed in despite having a mental health diagnosis after being off medications for over a year. I know several people with much worse criminal records who were allowed in. Yeah, a combination of these things isn't good, but it's wrong that the military can legally discriminate. Sure, you can make the argument that people with mental health problems could go on a shooting rampage or something, but that's such an unlikely scenerio. I don't know of any person with my diagnosis who went on a shooting spree. Those people typically have personality disorders or PTSD, I don't have either. Mine isn't linked to violence.

The government can't disqualify people for disabilities or health conditions, nor can any employer, yet the military can, even in non combat positions? In non combat zones? I think that's highly hypocritical, especially when we NEED people in the military.

The only reason I don't want combat is I don't morally agree with the current military invasions, and am not really down with shooting people like that. I don't give a fuck about getting shot or blown up, I have done plenty of dangerous things, risked my life plenty of times, si don't try to imply I'ma coward because I don't want to run around the dessert shooting random people who are defending their country after we invaded because they had WMDs...a lot of the people fighting aginst US combat soilders aren't pyscho terrorists bent on killing innocent American civilians. IPeople who stick needles in their arms and whereever else there's a vein daily for years, been involved with gang activity, and have suicide attempts usually aren't afraid of danger...so I think that bit was truly an idiotic assumption. Not wanting to kill people for a living is different than being scared of getting shot.

throw-away-soon
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:52 am

I just got a pretty cushy union job with really good benefits and all that stuff. Plus I have a PT job in the fall that pays $30+ an hr, and is about 15 hours a week, and that I'd be able to work in addition to the union job.

Should I apply to the local T4 in the region, because my school does not have a PT program (but disability services will let me take 1 less class each of my first two semesters)? I am almost double digits above the median LSAT for the FT program, GPA is at their 75th percentile. Their tuition is only a few K less for the PT, but I wouldn't consider going unless I got a ton of $, and if I even got a half scholly, I'd be in no debt, since my jobs would easily cover half tuition.

The school I should be able to go back to is a much better school (mid TT, was a T1 a little bit ago). I'd be about $30,000 in debt at the TT, maybe less, defending on some things. How much more is the TT worth (I'll PM the schools but I don't want to put them out publicly).

Just kind of thought about it now since I got a solid job.

LRGhost
Posts: 1869
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:49 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby LRGhost » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:27 pm

No. Take a year off and make sure you're healthy and that you won't have anything happen to weigh you down. Save money, grow with the job. LS will be there next year. Plus, if you make enough dough, you can take a sweet vacation before matriculating.

thand42292
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:30 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby thand42292 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:36 pm

throw-away-soon wrote:I just got a pretty cushy union job with really good benefits and all that stuff. Plus I have a PT job in the fall that pays $30+ an hr, and is about 15 hours a week, and that I'd be able to work in addition to the union job.

Should I apply to the local T4 in the region, because my school does not have a PT program (but disability services will let me take 1 less class each of my first two semesters)? I am almost double digits above the median LSAT for the FT program, GPA is at their 75th percentile. Their tuition is only a few K less for the PT, but I wouldn't consider going unless I got a ton of $, and if I even got a half scholly, I'd be in no debt, since my jobs would easily cover half tuition.

The school I should be able to go back to is a much better school (mid TT, was a T1 a little bit ago). I'd be about $30,000 in debt at the TT, maybe less, defending on some things. How much more is the TT worth (I'll PM the schools but I don't want to put them out publicly).

Just kind of thought about it now since I got a solid job.



Some employers subsidize tuition who've made book and then give them jobs in legal (cf. NYPD, FDNY). Check to see if your union gig in either the corporation/department or union has something like that before you go and take out a penny more debt or risk your employment options. Also, putting a little time in on the job before going back to LS gets you an explainable distance from the problems you had before. Whatever you do be aware that 30 something dollars per hour is more than a lot of entry level lawyers make. I don't know anything about recovery, but stay strong man.

throw-away-soon
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:34 pm

My union will reimburse for some tuition after 4 years of paying dues or if you're a charter state member.

OVR is willing to pay for up to $10,000 for tuition as well. I'm applying for other sources of funding.

The problem with the $30/hr job is that it's a PT speciality job, so limited hours. I have the connections to make it a career.

Plenty of my friends were "just taking some time off," not only never went back, but their issues got A LOT worse because of the extra time and $. Now they're doing nothing with their lives.

People with drug problems, based on my experiences, need to be doing something they find meaningful, or things fall apart very fast. Doing pointless, meaningless things and having a lot of money while feeling unfullfilled, miserable, and bored, is a terrible combination for people in recovery. The people I see who succeed find something that makes them happy, and they throw themselves into it, and things work out. That's why you see so many ex addicts go back to school and get in to counseling, or other time consuming fields. There's plenty of stories like that. I know what the exact issue was in the fall that caused all of this, and I have taken care of it. If I'm in a good place these next few months, and I can go back, I will.

Again, since you guys don't actually know me, my entire life situation, and aren't professionals, I don't think you can really know or tell me when I'll be ready for school. It's extremely subjective. Some people do benefit from time off, but I'm not one of those people. Every time I've had time off, I've dug myself in a much deeper hole. Free time and money, and depression, don't mix well for me.

LRGhost
Posts: 1869
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:49 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby LRGhost » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:41 pm

Dude, I support you and feel for you, but at this point, you clearly don't care about advice from people here regardless of whether they've been through addiction, mental health problems, or know people who have, etc. So just do whatever you're going to do because nobody here is going to affect your decision making process at all.

Best of luck.

throw-away-soon
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:07 pm

LRGhost wrote:Dude, I support you and feel for you, but at this point, you clearly don't care about advice from people here regardless of whether they've been through addiction, mental health problems, or know people who have, etc. So just do whatever you're going to do because nobody here is going to affect your decision making process at all.

Best of luck.


Ahh...maybe because people aren't answering my questions, but are going off topic and giving unsolicited advice on issues that I am already getting insight from people who are actually qualified to give it, and asked several times for people not to give. I not only didn't ask for "recovery" advice, I asked for people not to touch the subject, so trying to imply I'm somehow in the wrong when other people clearly crossed the line, is pretty unfair and ignorant. People didn't respect my requests, and I tried to nicely tell them to back off, they refused, and I'm the one who is being close minded or wrong for disregarding their comments and correctly pointing out they are not at all qualified to be internet therapsists? People need to tone down the narcissism, a pretty common trait from recoverying addicts actually.


. There's a difference between people saying "if you want to PM, feel free" and "here's what you should do."

The first is respectful, the second is pretty narcisstic.

I came to a LAW SCHOOL FORUM to ask about LAW SCHOOL. If I wanted drug addiction/recovery advice, why would I come here?

It would be idiotic for me to take the "advice" of people on here about my personal life over the professionals I see, especially when the people I see actually know me.

So, please stop giving unsolicited advice, and just focus on the law school part questions, as this is a law school forum...

User avatar
cinephile
Posts: 3469
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:50 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby cinephile » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:13 pm

People are trying to give you advice because they know what the law school environment is like and they want to keep you from falling off the wagon. No one is going to say it's a good idea to put yourself in this situation before you get your life together and stay sober.

thand42292
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:30 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby thand42292 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:20 pm

throw-away-soon wrote:My union will reimburse for some tuition after 4 years of paying dues or if you're a charter state member.

OVR is willing to pay for up to $10,000 for tuition as well. I'm applying for other sources of funding.

The problem with the $30/hr job is that it's a PT speciality job, so limited hours. I have the connections to make it a career.

Plenty of my friends were "just taking some time off," not only never went back, but their issues got A LOT worse because of the extra time and $. Now they're doing nothing with their lives.

People with drug problems, based on my experiences, need to be doing something they find meaningful, or things fall apart very fast. Doing pointless, meaningless things and having a lot of money while feeling unfullfilled, miserable, and bored, is a terrible combination for people in recovery. The people I see who succeed find something that makes them happy, and they throw themselves into it, and things work out. That's why you see so many ex addicts go back to school and get in to counseling, or other time consuming fields. There's plenty of stories like that. I know what the exact issue was in the fall that caused all of this, and I have taken care of it. If I'm in a good place these next few months, and I can go back, I will.

Again, since you guys don't actually know me, my entire life situation, and aren't professionals, I don't think you can really know or tell me when I'll be ready for school. It's extremely subjective. Some people do benefit from time off, but I'm not one of those people. Every time I've had time off, I've dug myself in a much deeper hole. Free time and money, and depression, don't mix well for me.


Bro, you're right I don't know diddly squat about recovery. I do know something about money. Debt is scary as hell. If I had a union gig that would give me 10K per annum for law school after putting my time in I would work for four years. If I didn't want to have free time I'd look for OT and keep that 15 hour part time job. That's what I'd do. Like you say I'm no pro so do whatever you want. I hope your professionals help you and your life turns out successful. One day at a time, brother.

LRGhost
Posts: 1869
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:49 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby LRGhost » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:43 pm

throw-away-soon wrote:
So, please stop giving unsolicited advice, and just focus on the law school part questions, as this is a law school forum...


Don't go to law school. You won't get a job.

throw-away-soon
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:02 pm

The dean emailed me to touch base, and said there shouldn't be any real difficulties, and that we could schedule a time to talk. I have my formal arraignment this week, after that the prosecution will be able to offer me prob w/o verdict.

So how/when do I disclose? Before/after hearing/offer/consulting with cf attorney?

throw-away-soon
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:07 pm

LRGhost wrote:
throw-away-soon wrote:
So, please stop giving unsolicited advice, and just focus on the law school part questions, as this is a law school forum...


Don't go to law school. You won't get a job.


While you're at it, what are the lottery numbers for tonight?

User avatar
SemperLegal
Posts: 1333
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:28 pm

Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby SemperLegal » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:50 pm

throw-away-soon wrote:...

My cousin was allowed in despite having a mental health diagnosis after being off medications for over a year. I know several people with much worse criminal records who were allowed in. Yeah, a combination of these things isn't good, but it's wrong that the military can legally discriminate. Sure, you can make the argument that people with mental health problems could go on a shooting rampage or something, but that's such an unlikely scenerio. I don't know of any person with my diagnosis who went on a shooting spree. Those people typically have personality disorders or PTSD, I don't have either. Mine isn't linked to violence.

The government can't disqualify people for disabilities or health conditions, nor can any employer, yet the military can, even in non combat positions? In non combat zones? I think that's highly hypocritical, especially when we NEED people in the military.

The only reason I don't want combat is I don't morally agree with the current military invasions, and am not really down with shooting people like that. I don't give a fuck about getting shot or blown up, I have done plenty of dangerous things, risked my life plenty of times, si don't try to imply I'ma coward because I don't want to run around the dessert shooting random people who are defending their country after we invaded because they had WMDs...a lot of the people fighting aginst US combat soilders aren't pyscho terrorists bent on killing innocent American civilians. IPeople who stick needles in their arms and whereever else there's a vein daily for years, been involved with gang activity, and have suicide attempts usually aren't afraid of danger...so I think that bit was truly an idiotic assumption. Not wanting to kill people for a living is different than being scared of getting shot.


1. We don't need you. The military is massively overstaffed and is trying to shed very qualified officers and enlisted, they certainly do not want people who don't realize that the war in Iraq has been over for more than a year or think being in the military is "killing people for a living"

2. Having served next to drug users and gang members before, most of you are the biggest pussies around who either go missing before deployments or beg the real men to break your legs so you don't have to deploy (with one notable exception)

3. Who with PTSD is going on rampages?

4. The military doesn't owe you a career. Its under no obligation to be fair or not discriminate towards you, it doesn't reflect democratic values, it protects them.

5. If you go to law school, you are going to have a relapse, you may not be using, but you are not sober.




Return to “Law School FAQ”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests