How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

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throw-away-soon
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How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:15 pm

I'll make this as brief as possible, and I can add any details if asked.

In undergrad, I had two drug and one alcohol violation that was handled by judicial affairs. The first drug offense a sch. 1 narcotic (not weed), and I did an IOP program while I was attending school. I was on disciplinary probation for 2 semesters.

I received an alcohol violation my third year, and was placed on disciplinary probation for 2 semesters and required to do a dual diagnosis program the summer before my senior year.

I then applied to law school, and applied widely due to my record. I did well enough, and decided to go to my local TT, #1 in my region, with a sizable scholarship that will put my debt level for all three years below $30k.

I received a drug violation for a sch. 1 narcotic (not weed) after I heard back from most law schools, at the very end of my senior year (I graduated a semester early), and was placed on disciplinary probation and my degree was held until I did rehab. I did an inpatient program, and got my degree.

I notified the law school I wanted to attend about the third violation, and they were okay with me attending in the fall of 2012.

I then did an outpatient program the spring and summer, and enrolled in school. In Oct., things were out of hand, and I dropped out to attend an inpatient program. The school agreed, with no specifications, that I could return in the fall of 2013.

I ended up getting kicked out of the rehab, and came home.

I got arrested in November for possession (46 bags of heroin), disorderly conduct, and resisting arrest. My case in Jan 16, and there is a chance some charges could be dropped because it was an illegal search, an illegal arrest, and I was never read my rights. Worst case, according to an attorney, is 1 year probation.

I then went to an inpatient program for three weeks and completed it.

A little bit later I had a failed suicide attempt, ended up in the ICU for 3 days, and was forced to either voluntarily commit myself or they would involuntarily commit myself. I voluntarily committed myself, signed an intent to discharge when I arrived, and was released after 2 1/2 days.

I have not yet reported the arrest, 3rd inpatient, or suicide thing to my law school.

What do I need to do? I'm assuming I need to disclose, but the school just said I could come back, no strings attached. If I need to disclose, how long do I wait? Until the hearing happens?

I have diagnosed mental health condition too, and have had that diagnosis for 4 years.

How bad is this situation?

I eventually want to get my Phd, and my pipedream is academia. So should I pursue a Phd for now because by chances at passing the bar/returning are shot? I would be happy in a Phd program in several fields, but I haven't taken the GRE (or is it GMAT haha?), let alone study for it.

Thanks for any input. I feel pretty fucked right now.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby somewhatwayward » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:40 pm

I'm very sorry to hear about what's going on with you.

No one on this forum can give you legal advice about what you must tell the school. You should probably hire a lawyer who deals with mental health issues and higher education. A lawyer may sound like overkill, but schools have become increasingly concerned about liability due to students' mental health problems, and that has resulted in schools doing some pretty questionable things to protect themselves. One person who posted here was expelled from law school on a pretext after the person's roommate told the school the person had made a suicidal gesture. The one piece of advice I would have on this front is don't talk to the school at all until you have talked to the lawyer about what you should say. Also, don't talk to anyone at the school, like your friends or your old roommate or whatever.

Next, and this is the tough love part, you really need to get your act together (that is, get real treatment for substance abuse and whatever mental health problems you have and be truly committed to sobriety and mental health) before you concern yourself with going back to school. I mean, you obviously want to preserve the possibility that you can go back down-the-road, which the lawyer should be able to help with. But right now your focus needs to be on getting healthy. It sounds like you have a long history of getting into trouble in educational environments based on the long list of transgressions in your post, which leads me to conclude that something about the educational environment is destabilizing and triggering for you. Maybe it is the stress. Maybe it is the easy access to substances. I don't know. But from reading your post it is pretty clear that you should not be going back to school in he near future. I am not a doctor and obviously I don't know you, but I do know that these types of problems take a lot of time to get under control - months, sometimes years. It will be so much better for you if you are really ready to go back to school when you do, though.

The other consideration is the character & fitness part of the bar as your title references. [Again, I can't offer legal advice, so the following is just my impression from having read the C&F app and talked to various people about it.] Mental illness, addiction, and less serious offenses are not necessarily a bar to being admitted, but the examiners want to see that you really have moved past these things. If you take the time now to get it under control and keep it under control when you do go back to school, your chances of passing are going to be higher than if you rush back to school and get caught with drugs again next semester and have a suicide attempt the semester after that and so forth. The C&F part of the bar is another reason to take your time and really commit yourself to healing.

I have had a friend in a similar situation in undergrad, and she felt the same way that you appear to....she wanted to come back to school right away after a suicide attempt but the school basically forced a LOA on her (one reason I think you should talk to a lawyer before you deal w the school....they did not treat her well). In the end, the LOA was good, though. I don't know if she went in-patient, but she did do treatment while she was gone and then she came back and finished college in good stead. She had to accept that she simply would not be allowed to rush back to college. She had to wait. But it turned out to be good for her.

The last thing I guess I would say is you mentioned some mental health problems a few times....if they are of the type that can be treated with medication, have you ever been stabilized on meds for the condition before? Eh, you don't have to answer that here, but I will just say that the problematic behaviors may disappear or decrease a lot if you find the right med regimen and are med-compliant.

Okay well I will stop typing bc this is long enough as it is. The intersection of mental health law and higher education happens to be a topic of interest to me. I wish you the best of luck!

throw-away-soon
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:00 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:I'm very sorry to hear about what's going on with you.

No one on this forum can give you legal advice about what you must tell the school. You should probably hire a lawyer who deals with mental health issues and higher education. A lawyer may sound like overkill, but schools have become increasingly concerned about liability due to students' mental health problems, and that has resulted in schools doing some pretty questionable things to protect themselves. One person who posted here was expelled from law school on a pretext after the person's roommate told the school the person had made a suicidal gesture. The one piece of advice I would have on this front is don't talk to the school at all until you have talked to the lawyer about what you should say. Also, don't talk to anyone at the school, like your friends or your old roommate or whatever.

Next, and this is the tough love part, you really need to get your act together (that is, get real treatment for substance abuse and whatever mental health problems you have and be truly committed to sobriety and mental health) before you concern yourself with going back to school. I mean, you obviously want to preserve the possibility that you can go back down-the-road, which the lawyer should be able to help with. But right now your focus needs to be on getting healthy. It sounds like you have a long history of getting into trouble in educational environments based on the long list of transgressions in your post, which leads me to conclude that something about the educational environment is destabilizing and triggering for you. Maybe it is the stress. Maybe it is the easy access to substances. I don't know. But from reading your post it is pretty clear that you should not be going back to school in he near future. I am not a doctor and obviously I don't know you, but I do know that these types of problems take a lot of time to get under control - months, sometimes years. It will be so much better for you if you are really ready to go back to school when you do, though.

The other consideration is the character & fitness part of the bar as your title references. [Again, I can't offer legal advice, so the following is just my impression from having read the C&F app and talked to various people about it.] Mental illness, addiction, and less serious offenses are not necessarily a bar to being admitted, but the examiners want to see that you really have moved past these things. If you take the time now to get it under control and keep it under control when you do go back to school, your chances of passing are going to be higher than if you rush back to school and get caught with drugs again next semester and have a suicide attempt the semester after that and so forth. The C&F part of the bar is another reason to take your time and really commit yourself to healing.

I have had a friend in a similar situation in undergrad, and she felt the same way that you appear to....she wanted to come back to school right away after a suicide attempt but the school basically forced a LOA on her (one reason I think you should talk to a lawyer before you deal w the school....they did not treat her well). In the end, the LOA was good, though. I don't know if she went in-patient, but she did do treatment while she was gone and then she came back and finished college in good stead. She had to accept that she simply would not be allowed to rush back to college. She had to wait. But it turned out to be good for her.

The last thing I guess I would say is you mentioned some mental health problems a few times....if they are of the type that can be treated with medication, have you ever been stabilized on meds for the condition before? Eh, you don't have to answer that here, but I will just say that the problematic behaviors may disappear or decrease a lot if you find the right med regimen and are med-compliant.

Okay well I will stop typing bc this is long enough as it is. The intersection of mental health law and higher education happens to be a topic of interest to me. I wish you the best of luck!


Thanks for being nice about it.

My meds have been switched a lot over the years. The drugs were impacted me like adderall or ritalin does for most people. It helped me get through school (I dean's high honors/dean's list every semester, graduated with honors, tons of EC's/leadership), so I did well at undergrad and everything. I just went off my meds when I felt they didn't work, then it takes a month or so for them to take effect again, maybe up to two months to see if they even work.

The stuff they put me on at the last rehab helped, but I hate taking 4 rx's at a time, and some of the meds require a lot of followup appointments and bloodwork and such, so all the co pays really add up.

I have a couple of interviews set up, and have a sports related part time job already. I applied for SSI/Disability, but I may not hear back until April. If I get a job I don't hate, I don't mind playing it by ear, in terms of when I return to school.

I really regret dropping out, and that decision was at the root of my problems the last few months. What happened was I started law school, and started having serious anxiety attacks, and the meds my p doc gave me the first two months didn't help, so that kind of fueled the drug thing. Things got way out of hand after I dropped out of school.

I love school, and it makes me really happy. I'm a nerd, and I love learning and reading just about anything. The suicide thing was probably a one time thing, there was a lot of factors in play that probably would not happen again, but I've always had suicidal thoughts and the like. The people I've worked with said I'm high functioning though.

I just want to know the liklihood of being able to return in the fall. I'm itching to go back, and I'm fine with waiting a year, but if the fall isn't a possibility, I'd like to know, because I really want to move to Portland.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby somewhatwayward » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:10 am

throw-away-soon wrote:Thanks for being nice about it.

My meds have been switched a lot over the years. The drugs were impacted me like adderall or ritalin does for most people. It helped me get through school (I dean's high honors/dean's list every semester, graduated with honors, tons of EC's/leadership), so I did well at undergrad and everything. I just went off my meds when I felt they didn't work, then it takes a month or so for them to take effect again, maybe up to two months to see if they even work.

The stuff they put me on at the last rehab helped, but I hate taking 4 rx's at a time, and some of the meds require a lot of followup appointments and bloodwork and such, so all the co pays really add up.

I have a couple of interviews set up, and have a sports related part time job already. I applied for SSI/Disability, but I may not hear back until April. If I get a job I don't hate, I don't mind playing it by ear, in terms of when I return to school.

I really regret dropping out, and that decision was at the root of my problems the last few months. What happened was I started law school, and started having serious anxiety attacks, and the meds my p doc gave me the first two months didn't help, so that kind of fueled the drug thing. Things got way out of hand after I dropped out of school.

I love school, and it makes me really happy. I'm a nerd, and I love learning and reading just about anything. The suicide thing was probably a one time thing, there was a lot of factors in play that probably would not happen again, but I've always had suicidal thoughts and the like. The people I've worked with said I'm high functioning though.

I just want to know the liklihood of being able to return in the fall. I'm itching to go back, and I'm fine with waiting a year, but if the fall isn't a possibility, I'd like to know, because I really want to move to Portland.


I missed in your original post that you said you "dropped out" but you and the school had an understanding that you could come back next year? So dropping out doesn't mean anything permanent...it is more like a leave of absence? And now you are worried that because you were arrested, got kicked out of rehab, and had a suicide attempt, the school might decide to not let you come back next year? For that problem, you really do need to go to a lawyer and talk to them about what you need to tell the school and what your rights are.

One other thing...was there an agreement that you would do particular things during your year off (like go to rehab, go to therapy, whatever)? You'll also want to discuss it with the lawyer if there is an agreement, but in my non-lawyer opinion, you probably want to try to comply with the agreement if there is one because it will placate the school.

It is great that you've got some job possibilities lined up. Working can be very stabilizing if you're high-functioning, which it sounds like you are. Having a good track record at work, like having people who will vouch for your reliability and capabilities, can be helpful in convincing the school or the bar that you've got your shit together.

I can understand why you want to know now whether you can go back so you can make plans, but my guess would be that the school will want to make a decision closer to when school starts bc they'll want to see how you are doing then. Plus you might want to put some distance between yourself and the tumultuous events of the last few months. Can you move to Portland even if you don't know about school?

Hmmm, I feel like I had more to say but I can't remember everything now. The main takeaway is talk to a lawyer about the school issues (and make sure that possession thing really turns into probation only); stay in therapy and substance abuse treatment; and continue pursuing the work possibilities. Good luck!

throw-away-soon
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:12 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:
throw-away-soon wrote:Thanks for being nice about it.

My meds have been switched a lot over the years. The drugs were impacted me like adderall or ritalin does for most people. It helped me get through school (I dean's high honors/dean's list every semester, graduated with honors, tons of EC's/leadership), so I did well at undergrad and everything. I just went off my meds when I felt they didn't work, then it takes a month or so for them to take effect again, maybe up to two months to see if they even work.

The stuff they put me on at the last rehab helped, but I hate taking 4 rx's at a time, and some of the meds require a lot of followup appointments and bloodwork and such, so all the co pays really add up.

I have a couple of interviews set up, and have a sports related part time job already. I applied for SSI/Disability, but I may not hear back until April. If I get a job I don't hate, I don't mind playing it by ear, in terms of when I return to school.

I really regret dropping out, and that decision was at the root of my problems the last few months. What happened was I started law school, and started having serious anxiety attacks, and the meds my p doc gave me the first two months didn't help, so that kind of fueled the drug thing. Things got way out of hand after I dropped out of school.

I love school, and it makes me really happy. I'm a nerd, and I love learning and reading just about anything. The suicide thing was probably a one time thing, there was a lot of factors in play that probably would not happen again, but I've always had suicidal thoughts and the like. The people I've worked with said I'm high functioning though.

I just want to know the liklihood of being able to return in the fall. I'm itching to go back, and I'm fine with waiting a year, but if the fall isn't a possibility, I'd like to know, because I really want to move to Portland.


I missed in your original post that you said you "dropped out" but you and the school had an understanding that you could come back next year? So dropping out doesn't mean anything permanent...it is more like a leave of absence? And now you are worried that because you were arrested, got kicked out of rehab, and had a suicide attempt, the school might decide to not let you come back next year? For that problem, you really do need to go to a lawyer and talk to them about what you need to tell the school and what your rights are.

One other thing...was there an agreement that you would do particular things during your year off (like go to rehab, go to therapy, whatever)? You'll also want to discuss it with the lawyer if there is an agreement, but in my non-lawyer opinion, you probably want to try to comply with the agreement if there is one because it will placate the school.

It is great that you've got some job possibilities lined up. Working can be very stabilizing if you're high-functioning, which it sounds like you are. Having a good track record at work, like having people who will vouch for your reliability and capabilities, can be helpful in convincing the school or the bar that you've got your shit together.

I can understand why you want to know now whether you can go back so you can make plans, but my guess would be that the school will want to make a decision closer to when school starts bc they'll want to see how you are doing then. Plus you might want to put some distance between yourself and the tumultuous events of the last few months. Can you move to Portland even if you don't know about school?

Hmmm, I feel like I had more to say but I can't remember everything now. The main takeaway is talk to a lawyer about the school issues (and make sure that possession thing really turns into probation only); stay in therapy and substance abuse treatment; and continue pursuing the work possibilities. Good luck!


There were no stipulations other than they will reinstate my scholarship and I won't need to re apply. They did say in the spring before I enrolled that any more issues would make it a lot harder to pass the bar.

I talked to a private attorney about the possession thing, and he said 1 yr probation is the worst case. I can't meet with the PD until the day of the hearing, right before the hearing. The search was more than a Terry stop, he didn't find any drugs on me, and arrested me for having unused insulin syringes (they didn't charge me with paraphenelia). The cop lied his ass off in the report, and any objective person would see that. Unfortunately it's in front of a magistrate, so that's probably not going to happen.

Where do I find a C&F lawyer? Just google it?

Yeah, the school didn't say I had to do anything to come back.

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gobuffs10
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby gobuffs10 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:08 pm

I'm not sure what advice I can give you here, but feel free to PM me. I can talk to you about your drug issues, as I overcame addiction myself. I don't want to share much more than that publicly, so you can contact me if you want.

If you can take some time off to work on your life, you really should. Problems like yours don't just go away because you've added other positives to your life. When I struggled with my substance abuse issues, I thought I was fine because I had a steady job, a girlfriend, plenty of friends, whatever. Eventually, the drugs crept in at all of those points. You need to handle all of this now, not add more stress through school.

I don't think you're fucked, although it may feel like it right now. But, you HAVE to get your head in the right place now, or it will be too late. You only get so many chances to fuck up, and you've used quite a few. I'm not trying to judge you, as I'm speaking from experience. Please, take the time you need to get sober and get right mentally. Law school will be there when you're better.

throw-away-soon
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:00 pm

Okay, I talked to one attorney, and he told me to get back to him after a ruling. They dismissed the resisting arrest charge because I agreed to waive my prelim hearing. The PD said they did that so I could get ARD, which means it won't go on my record. Any other insight?

Thanks for being cool about this and not calling me a hopeless junkie.

LRGhost
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby LRGhost » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:18 am

Hey dude, just wanted to say best of luck. There are lawyers that handle C&F issues and they're probably better to talk to before the school. But on the bright side, you wouldn't be the first person to contend with addiction, arrests, narcotics, and come out of it just fine. Keep the goal in sight and treat every day like a small victory. Hit me up if you wanna talk, dude.

throw-away-soon
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:07 am

LRGhost wrote:Hey dude, just wanted to say best of luck. There are lawyers that handle C&F issues and they're probably better to talk to before the school. But on the bright side, you wouldn't be the first person to contend with addiction, arrests, narcotics, and come out of it just fine. Keep the goal in sight and treat every day like a small victory. Hit me up if you wanna talk, dude.


Thanks man. Yeah send me a message if you want to know more.

The C&F lawyer I talked to was very nice.

I was not enrolled at law school when I got arrested, so doesn't that mean I didn't get arrested while receiving FA (which is what needs to happen for them to freeze aid for a year, but I'm doing a rehab program with at least 2 random drug tests so I should be good)?

My hearing got transferred to the court house next month. I got a PD, I plan on calling Monday to ask this, but I was wondering if you guys knew if I could talk to the PD before the day of the hearing? For the prelim, I wasn't allowed to consult with the PD until right before the hearing.

This is my first experience with the criminal law aspect. When I talked to some doctor's/pysch/lawyers, they said it'll look good that I've completed an inpatient, kept seeing a therapist and pysch until I started an outpatient program (I started Suboxone a little bit ago). I work a FT job, and two part time jobs as a sports coach (relatively high level of play- I coach at a pay to play level where kids are trying to get scholly's/recruited)?.

I did stop seeing a psych after my suicide attempt because I was sick of downing a ton of pysch meds (I've been on about 15 different meds since 2009, not all at one time haha) and not feeling real (kind of hard to explain what I mean by that...other then I want my emotions to match my circumstances). I have a mood disorder, ADHD, an anxiety disorder, and insomnia, according to what my pysch's and therapists have said. So basically I can't get the most effective meds for my disorder's because I have addiction issues. A big issue was that I was having anxiety attacks at law school, and my pysch prescribed me stuff that took a week or two to work, and then stuff that treated anxiety as a secondary purpose or that was only sometimes mildly effective. It is so frustrating when you have a serious mental health problem and your pysch isn't being aggressive enough. So maybe I just need to find a better pysch?

I'm not suicidal now, but I do feel pretty hopeless, even though a bunch of medical people have said I have a lot to look forward to I still feel like I really fucked my shit. I feel like an idiot, and a black sheep. It's so disheartening that I worked through my issues to get to a respectable law school with little debt and seeing myself throw it away. I am so embarrassed about my situation. Even though my friends are very supportive and everything, it's hard seeing my college friends having careers or getting married, and I'm self destructing.

Sorry for bitching, I just feel like a loser. My friends from home that are also on dope don't have degrees, dropped or failed out of college, and are working shit jobs, going no where. I love them, but I don't want to end up not being able to get back to school. I love school, and I miss it. I just want things to be better.

Sorry for rambling, I'm just very frustrated with myself and screwing my life up. I've wanted to practice law since I was a kid, I love the law, I love reading cases and opinions. I find reading cases enjoyable, and I felt like I honestly "got" the material. I know I'd enjoy practicing almost any type of law, but my passion is public interest/con rights. I'm really into civil liberties and all of that jazz, and after getting royally FUCKED by the police, I want to be an attorney even more, because I am experiencing first hand how police abuse their power by lying in affidavits and not following the law. Law is fo sho what I want to do, and I just want to get back in to school in the fall.

I just want to hear something positive. I am trying to fix this. I'm working 60 hours a week, I'm doing an outpatient program, I'm on Suboxone, I'm seeing a therapist that I've seen since March, and I'm living with my parents. I had the worst couple months of my life, and I honestly can't handle it getting worse.

Thanks to everyone who offered to talk/message. Considering a lot of people on here can be pretty cold, it means a lot.

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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby LRGhost » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:15 am

Man, I won't tell you that your shit isn't fucked right now because it sort of is, but it's just a temporary thing. Work on your health and stay occupied with your jobs. You'll make some money, keep distracted, and find people to hang out with. Focus on that for a bit. When you're more along, see about cutting some hours out of one of your jobs and volunteering at the ACLU or some local activist group. You'll get back to law school but it might help you if you can do some work in the area you enjoy, even if it's just gopher work. It's a journey, brother, but you shouldn't be disheartened. Your position is completely salvageable and you shouldn't think otherwise.

throw-away-soon
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:53 pm

Well both the PD and a fansy private attorney both said I'd most likely get ARD/Probation w/o Verdict, meaning 6-18mths of probation. Stay out of trouble, and the charges get withdrawn. Since I've done an inpatient and am in an outpatient, they said that should suffice.

I haven't contacted the dean yet.

fallingup
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby fallingup » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:12 pm

I also overcame drug issues in school and would be happy to speak with you over PM if you're interested. I agree with the posters who are telling you to get yourself right before going back to school. I know you want to be back in school and feeling successful and on top of things again, but you need to get clean, like really clean, and stable for a while. It's not a competition or a battle to prove you're not average. It's for yourself.

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bandenjamin
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby bandenjamin » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:32 pm

OP,

I have a lot of experience on the other side of the big "H". My mom went through about 15 years of on again, off again drug abuse. To the point where she basically flamed out every relationship she had. She has now been sober for 10 years and we actually have a fairly decent relationship (not great, but getting better all the time). The one thing that brought me around, and will likely help you in your concerns over law school/C&F is this: "Just get better".

Don't worry about becoming a lawyer and going to law school and all those things. Work on becoming the person you really want to be. A person is not a job. Even if you never get the chance to go to law school/become a lawyer (please note, Tulane accepted a convicted murder) making yourself in to a better person will ultimate pay amazing dividends. Becoming a person you can be proud of will pay off in the end, one way or another.

My own experiences with addiction are much less (nicotine), but having seen how it affects another person I will just say, stay focused on getting better. Law School has been there for a few hundred years and will be there when you're ready for it. You can go back at any age (I'm starting 1L in fall at 36). If it's really the dream, get your mind & body ready to do it and you'll have a chance at the success you are looking for.

I sincerely hope you can find peace though therapy and treatment. I'd also echo the advice of others and say have a C&F attorney talk to your school (nice school by the way. Their campus is awesome. I live like 10 minutes from there, just across the river).

Take care of yourself first, the law will still be there.

throw-away-soon
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:27 pm

Thanks.

I will say that I don't think I'm a terrible person. I've worked since I was 14, I have volunteered since high school, Ive never robbed anyone or ripped anyone off, never set anybody up, I've kept most of the promises I've made. Managed to do better than anyone in my family hs and undergrad (I went to a much better school than anyone else in my family), first one to get accepted to any professional school or grad school, never got fired from a job. Considering I've been on opiates for 5 yrs and slammin smack for 2, I've managed to not be a terrible person or turn in to a junkie. I'm not ashamed of myself, but I'm not proud of where I am. As in, I've fucked my shit, but I haven't fucked anyone else's shit.

I'm pretty relieved about the court thing, and My current employer offered me a promotion already and said they'd pay for my training this summer, after only 2 weeks. I was invited back to my pt job for the fall, and I have two part time jobs with three employers now. One offered to pay for my license upgrade and already is planning on having me back in the fall.

Things are looking up since I got out of the pysch ward and inpatient place.

Seeing the burnouts in my outpatient program is pretty sobering. I'm looking to find a new psychiatrist so that's kind of working out.

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fruitoftheloom
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby fruitoftheloom » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:38 pm

Just FYI, I don't think any of the posters have implied that you're a bad person.

They're all just trying to offer you their advice / information.

Good luck! (PS - before you talk to school, I would go back and edit out all your posts esp. because it looks like I could guess which school you're going to).

LordBeric
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby LordBeric » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:41 pm

I don't really know about c and f but I would implore you as an attorney not to enter this profession. This profession tends to have incredibly high levels of stress and exaggerates already bad drug and alcohol problems. The stress of the profession will pull you back. I am not judging you, but I really think this profession would be throwing gasoline on the fire.

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cinephile
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby cinephile » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:04 pm

bandenjamin wrote:
Take care of yourself first, the law will still be there.


It sounds like some of the things you've been going through have happened very recently. November of this year? It was only a few months ago. Take some time for yourself to recover before jumping back into law school.

throw-away-soon
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:03 am

LordBeric wrote:I don't really know about c and f but I would implore you as an attorney not to enter this profession. This profession tends to have incredibly high levels of stress and exaggerates already bad drug and alcohol problems. The stress of the profession will pull you back. I am not judging you, but I really think this profession would be throwing gasoline on the fire.


Stress has had nothing to do with my problems. I don't get stressed about work, just annoyed. And I forget about it once I leave work. It's funny because a bunch of people at the law school mentioned the stress thing, assuming stress had to do with anything that I've been through. It hasn't. School has honestly never stressed me out, nor has work. I don't really care about much, because i have accepted the meaningless of my life and actions in relation to the universe as a whole, and I don't stress about meaningless/minuscule things. Maybe that's not the best outlook on life, but I don't have stress because of it and I'm laid back and free from caring too much about anything. This all has to do with dying twice, so it's really hard to explain my outlook and perspective somethimes.

Anyways stress isn't an issue for me. The thing for me is feeling like a basket case, going days without sleeping, and not finding a responsive dr since I've moved from undergrad. I have issues with hyper insomnia and need to be able to have a dr I can reach who can call in sleeping medication within a day of calling. I'm in the process of switching pysch because my current pysch doesn't get back to me in a timely manner. The wait for a decent one is 1 1/2 mths, and I've had this major issue with my Pcp trying to get ambien, so now I need to find a new Pcp who I can somehow see this week to get my ambien or lunesta. I've never dealt with a more incompetent or rude staff at a doctors. They told me thurs they'd fill it as long as I had proof I've had ambien before, call Friday they said even though I had records of getting it, I needed to come in, and they'd call. They didn't call back, didn't call yesterday, so I ended up going to the ER for lunesta. It's too fucking hard to find a decent doctor and responsive competent staff. Had they told me I needed to come in I could have yesterday x

NYstate
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby NYstate » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:02 am

throw-away-soon wrote:
LordBeric wrote:I don't really know about c and f but I would implore you as an attorney not to enter this profession. This profession tends to have incredibly high levels of stress and exaggerates already bad drug and alcohol problems. The stress of the profession will pull you back. I am not judging you, but I really think this profession would be throwing gasoline on the fire.


Stress has had nothing to do with my problems. I don't get stressed about work, just annoyed. And I forget about it once I leave work. It's funny because a bunch of people at the law school mentioned the stress thing, assuming stress had to do with anything that I've been through. It hasn't. School has honestly never stressed me out, nor has work. I don't really care about much, because i have accepted the meaningless of my life and actions in relation to the universe as a whole, and I don't stress about meaningless/minuscule things. Maybe that's not the best outlook on life, but I don't have stress because of it and I'm laid back and free from caring too much about anything. This all has to do with dying twice, so it's really hard to explain my outlook and perspective somethimes.

Anyways stress isn't an issue for me. The thing for me is feeling like a basket case, going days without sleeping, and not finding a responsive dr since I've moved from undergrad. I have issues with hyper insomnia and need to be able to have a dr I can reach who can call in sleeping medication within a day of calling. I'm in the process of switching pysch because my current pysch doesn't get back to me in a timely manner. The wait for a decent one is 1 1/2 mths, and I've had this major issue with my Pcp trying to get ambien, so now I need to find a new Pcp who I can somehow see this week to get my ambien or lunesta. I've never dealt with a more incompetent or rude staff at a doctors. They told me thurs they'd fill it as long as I had proof I've had ambien before, call Friday they said even though I had records of getting it, I needed to come in, and they'd call. They didn't call back, didn't call yesterday, so I ended up going to the ER for lunesta. It's too fucking hard to find a decent doctor and responsive competent staff. Had they told me I needed to come in I could have yesterday x


OP: I am going to tell you directly what I think. I think that you are still unaware of how much help you still need. Your posts are rambling but very focused on drugs and meds, getting meds, using meds ,etc.

You say you don't get stressed out but what about this:
What happened was I started law school, and started having serious anxiety attacks, and the meds my p doc gave me the first two months didn't help, so that kind of fueled the drug thing. Things got way out of hand after I dropped out of school.

You sound like you are not admitting the entirety of the situation to yourself, including your reaction to law school.

And you do rehab, drop out and then you get arrested with 46 bags of heroin? I know nothing about heroin, but isn't that a lot? To the uniformed person, that sounds like more than a simple problem. That sounds like a big problem that must be addressed.

I am not part of any drug culture so look at me as your typical clueless law school administrator. I do not think you are nearly ready to consider returning to law school.


On TLS people will post requests for review of addendum they are writing to explain their various fuck-ups in life. Very few start out accepting responsibility for what happened. Most start off with a litany of reasons why things happened to them and how they ended up in jail - and say things like "the cop lied" or "I wasn't read my rights." It takes a while for them to understand that they must take personal responsibility for being in that situation and the behavior that brought them there.

You are still talking about the circumstances and not understanding that it was your choices that brought you there. (and that doesn't mean I don't believe you, cops will lie, we know that, but don't focus on what the cop did, focus on what you did to put yourself in that situation with 46 bags of heroin.)Y


You need to admit your role in all these events in your life. Your choices brought you there. And then take responsibility for those choices, learn from them and move on. The emphasis is the MOVE ON part: this happened to you, now you are fixing it. You can fix it.

EDIT TO ADD: I don't think you are a bad person. I think that part of your problem is thinking how badly you screwed up. Well, whatever happened that is water under the bridge now. You have to look at where you are. You are capable and you can still get your life together. Don't use the law school thing as an excuse to beat yourself up. Law school isn't going anywhere.

~sunynp

throw-away-soon
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:32 pm

NYstate wrote:
throw-away-soon wrote:
LordBeric wrote:I don't really know about c and f but I would implore you as an attorney not to enter this profession. This profession tends to have incredibly high levels of stress and exaggerates already bad drug and alcohol problems. The stress of the profession will pull you back. I am not judging you, but I really think this profession would be throwing gasoline on the fire.


Stress has had nothing to do with my problems. I don't get stressed about work, just annoyed. And I forget about it once I leave work. It's funny because a bunch of people at the law school mentioned the stress thing, assuming stress had to do with anything that I've been through. It hasn't. School has honestly never stressed me out, nor has work. I don't really care about much, because i have accepted the meaningless of my life and actions in relation to the universe as a whole, and I don't stress about meaningless/minuscule things. Maybe that's not the best outlook on life, but I don't have stress because of it and I'm laid back and free from caring too much about anything. This all has to do with dying twice, so it's really hard to explain my outlook and perspective somethimes.

Anyways stress isn't an issue for me. The thing for me is feeling like a basket case, going days without sleeping, and not finding a responsive dr since I've moved from undergrad. I have issues with hyper insomnia and need to be able to have a dr I can reach who can call in sleeping medication within a day of calling. I'm in the process of switching pysch because my current pysch doesn't get back to me in a timely manner. The wait for a decent one is 1 1/2 mths, and I've had this major issue with my Pcp trying to get ambien, so now I need to find a new Pcp who I can somehow see this week to get my ambien or lunesta. I've never dealt with a more incompetent or rude staff at a doctors. They told me thurs they'd fill it as long as I had proof I've had ambien before, call Friday they said even though I had records of getting it, I needed to come in, and they'd call. They didn't call back, didn't call yesterday, so I ended up going to the ER for lunesta. It's too fucking hard to find a decent doctor and responsive competent staff. Had they told me I needed to come in I could have yesterday x


OP: I am going to tell you directly what I think. I think that you are still unaware of how much help you still need. Your posts are rambling but very focused on drugs and meds, getting meds, using meds ,etc.

You say you don't get stressed out but what about this:
What happened was I started law school, and started having serious anxiety attacks, and the meds my p doc gave me the first two months didn't help, so that kind of fueled the drug thing. Things got way out of hand after I dropped out of school.

You sound like you are not admitting the entirety of the situation to yourself, including your reaction to law school.

And you do rehab, drop out and then you get arrested with 46 bags of heroin? I know nothing about heroin, but isn't that a lot? To the uniformed person, that sounds like more than a simple problem. That sounds like a big problem that must be addressed.

I am not part of any drug culture so look at me as your typical clueless law school administrator. I do not think you are nearly ready to consider returning to law school.


On TLS people will post requests for review of addendum they are writing to explain their various fuck-ups in life. Very few start out accepting responsibility for what happened. Most start off with a litany of reasons why things happened to them and how they ended up in jail - and say things like "the cop lied" or "I wasn't read my rights." It takes a while for them to understand that they must take personal responsibility for being in that situation and the behavior that brought them there.

You are still talking about the circumstances and not understanding that it was your choices that brought you there. (and that doesn't mean I don't believe you, cops will lie, we know that, but don't focus on what the cop did, focus on what you did to put yourself in that situation with 46 bags of heroin.)Y


You need to admit your role in all these events in your life. Your choices brought you there. And then take responsibility for those choices, learn from them and move on. The emphasis is the MOVE ON part: this happened to you, now you are fixing it. You can fix it.

EDIT TO ADD: I don't think you are a bad person. I think that part of your problem is thinking how badly you screwed up. Well, whatever happened that is water under the bridge now. You have to look at where you are. You are capable and you can still get your life together. Don't use the law school thing as an excuse to beat yourself up. Law school isn't going anywhere.

~sunynp


My anxiety attacks had nothing to do with stress. That sounds off to some people, but it had nothing to do with academics or anything like that. Stress and anxiety are different emotions with different causes. I don't understand why people assume they're the same or since I have a drug problem I must not be able to handle stress. Those are stupid assumptions.

My drug addiction isn't worse than the typical addict. I'm not a junkie. I've never committed a crime for drug money. I've never been fired from a job from drugs, or had a DUI/dwi.


Non users who have no clue about drugs can't accurately assess the extent of someone's problem. The brief op doesn't really describe in detail the depths of my addiction. It's not fair for you to say I do or don't have a solid grasp of my situation when you don know the whole story, you admit to not knowing anything about drugs, and don't know how much and how often. That's why I pay to see a professional. I'm here for c and f advice, not advice from an unqualified stranger about how I should view my addiction.

I'm not salty, but I hear too much insight from people who don't know shit about addiction or my addiction. Just give advice where you're qualified to give it.

I know what causes me to use: my moods. I've tried doing meds, no meds, rehab, therapy, meetings, I've done everything short of ibogaine. I've been through enough therapy and rehabs to know why I do what I do, to know what works and what doesn't. When I'm stable, it's been when I've been on meds and no drugs and therapy. You absolutely need some meds if you have a serious mood disorder, so yeah my focus should be on medication. I have chemical imbalances, which require some type of medication. And my focus on meds is based on advice my therapist is giving me...

46 bags isn't a lot in my area, it's less than a gram. It's not like I do that in a day, it's way cheaper to buy bricks (50 bags) vs. a bundle (10 bags). It's $80 for a bun, $280 for a brick, so
Even a non user would get why you buy bricks. You get two or three people to pitch in and you save a lot of $.

I'm not blaming the cops or anybody else, I hope it doesn't sound like that

throw-away-soon
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:36 pm

Yeah I'm rambling, only because I've slept 25 hours in the past 9 days.

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mephistopheles
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby mephistopheles » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:37 pm

tldr. don't use drugs. hth.

also, lold at 46 bags of heroin.

throw-away-soon
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby throw-away-soon » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:58 am

mephistopheles wrote:tldr. don't use drugs. hth.

also, lold at 46 bags of heroin.


A gram of h is not that much. Unless you're getting .1 bags in places like West Virginia...in which case that's 4.6 grams and almost intent (5 grams). Lol at people who think 1 gram is a lot of dope...

Please only comment on the law school c and f part and if you have no idea about drugs or addiction or mental health, stick to what you know and don't waste time trying to be a tls therapist or dr. I work with qualified professions and don't need advice from straight laced people about getting clean.

I do appreciate the people who have experience and invited me to pm them. That's the way to do it, probably bc you know how annoying it is when people start giving you treatment advice when you don't want it, and when they don't have a clue about it.

Ill give an update when I talk to the pd and have my trial.

LRGhost
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby LRGhost » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:14 pm

Ignore the idiot saying 'tldr don't do drugs lol'. I'd rather be a burnout with a chance at redemption than a boring striver who's afraid of the subway.

That said, dude, you're nowhere near being better. I have a friend in a similar situation, insomnia, all of that, and part of his problem is that he's not honest about his condition. He knows his sick and repeats his psych's diagnosis, but when it comes down to it, he blames his parents, his work situation, and all of these external influences for his episodes. Sure, they may not help, but what it comes down is that he's sick. And he can get better. And you're sick. And you can get better. But you need to acknowledge that you're sick. Talking about 'stress not affecting' you because of a philosophic existentialism, that's just dumb dude. You can go to sleep knowing it's all pointless and ashes to ashes and dust to dust and all of that, but when you're in it, you care. And that's the point people are trying to make. Can you handle law school or being a lawyer? I don't know. You don't know. But if you want to do it, by all means dude, go for it. But do get healthy and do recognize that self-imposed barricades preventing you from reaching that goal.

fallingup
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Re: How screwed am I for C&F/going back to my law school?

Postby fallingup » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:44 pm

Ignore the idiot saying 'tldr don't do drugs lol'. I'd rather be a burnout with a chance at redemption than a boring striver who's afraid of the subway.


Seriously? This is not what you tell an active addict. Not helpful. I'm sad for people who believe this dichotomy exists and drug use is what defines it.

I would really like OP to come back to this thread in a year and not recognize himself in his posts. His annoyance and excuses and shunting of the issues are trademark addiction. I have been down this road myself and rehab didn't so much as scratch the SURFACE. You don't understand how much you didn't see about your own addiction until years after it was over. (Truly over. As in, you don't think about drugs for months at a time.) Addiction has nothing to do with the DUIs, the legal run-ins, the psychiatrists, the medication regimens - it has everything to do with the mentality. The excuses, denials, and the self-destructive mental fixation on being a different person than sober people are.

This has nothing to do with the OP's original question which is whether a career in law is viable for him. I'm sure it is viable. I suggest the OP look into his state's bar requirements and speak to lawyers who have been through similar things. For my state, it says the following issues are basis for further inquiry of an applicant to the bar: unlawful conduct (including arrests where no conviction resulted), evidence of drug abuse/dependency, and, importantly, omission of relevant information on the application for admission to the bar. This is what it says about drug abuse specifically:

An applicant who asserts rehabilitation from prior misconduct which bears adversely upon the applicant’s character and fitness shall be required to produce clear and convincing evidence of such rehabilitation, which may include but are not limited to the following elements:

1. Absence of recent misconduct

2. Strict compliance with the specific conditions of any disciplinary, judicial, administrative or other order, where applicable

3. Impeccable character and moral standing in the community

4. Good reputation for professional ability, where applicable

5. Sufficiency of the punishment including payment of fines and restitution made; including the restitution of funds or property, where applicable

6. Applicant's current attitude about prior offenses (acceptance or responsibility and renunciation of past wrongdoing and remorse)

7. Lack of malice and ill feeling toward those who by duty were compelled to bring about the disciplinary, judicial, administrative or other proceeding

8. Personal assurances, supported by corroborating evidence, of a desire and intention to conduct one's self in an exemplary fashion in the future

9. Applicant's constructive activities and accomplishments subsequent to the criminal conviction

10. Applicant's candor, sincerity and full disclosure in character and fitness proceedings

11. Positive actions beyond those one would do for self benefit including but not limited to working as a guardian ad litem, volunteering on a regular basis with shelters for the homeless or victims of domestic violence or maintaining substantial involvement in other charitable, community or educational organizations whose value system, overall mission and activities are directed to good deeds and humanitarian concerns impacting a broad base of citizens

12. Demonstration of the applicant's understanding of the responsibility to the administration of justice and the practice of law

Merely showing that an individual is now living as and doing those things that this person should have done throughout life, although necessary to prove rehabilitation, does not prove that the individual has undertaken a useful and constructive place in society. The requirement of a positive action is appropriate for applicants for admission to the bar because service to one’s community is an implied obligation to members of the Bar.

The Board will not consider witness testimony or evidence offered by a witness in support of the applicant on any issue listed above unless the witness has been fully informed of the misconduct before offering the evidence.


Basically, I suggest that the OP 1) do some serious introspection for the sake of his own health, 2) carefully document every single instance of legal trouble and subsequent rehabilitation and submit ALL of this information when the bar time comes, and 3) participate in some offsetting positive community activities that he can include on his application.




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