Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

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Will_Imake_it
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Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Will_Imake_it » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:49 am

One simple question.. read a recent article about twenty odd law schools getting sued over some fraudulent employment statistics and the list includes few tier 1 law schools..

now the question I have is that, don't you have a better shot at finding a job if you graduate from a tier 1 law school comparatively from a tier 3-4??

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Nova
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Nova » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:54 am


Will_Imake_it
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Will_Imake_it » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:01 am

Nova wrote:Generally, yes.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=other



thanks for that website!!

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Br3v
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Br3v » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:01 am

For most ppl most of the time yes.

Will_Imake_it
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Will_Imake_it » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:05 am

so you would recommend a person attend HYS, T14, or just from any top 100 :D

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:06 am

Will_Imake_it wrote:so you would recommend a person attend HYS, T14, or just from any top 100 :D


Uh. What

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Br3v
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Br3v » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:08 am

Will_Imake_it wrote:so you would recommend a person attend HYS, T14, or just from any top 100 :D


It's not that easy. There are many factors including most of all, $$$. Rule of thumb is of course HYS, then a t14, then strong school in the region you want to work. This is a very rough rule if thumb. If you want more info provide more info about your situation (grades, lsat, where you want to practice)

Will_Imake_it
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Will_Imake_it » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:09 am

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
Will_Imake_it wrote:so you would recommend a person attend HYS, T14, or just from any top 100 :D


Uh. What


stupid myself, I am asking would you recommend a person should only attend a top14 law school for a better job prospects in the future over complete tier 1 law schools?

Will_Imake_it
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Will_Imake_it » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:11 am

Br3v wrote:
Will_Imake_it wrote:so you would recommend a person attend HYS, T14, or just from any top 100 :D


It's not that easy. There are many factors including most of all, $$$. Rule of thumb is of course HYS, then a t14, then strong school in the region you want to work. This is a very rough rule if thumb. If you want more info provide more info about your situation (grades, lsat, where you want to practice)


I live in NYC. I would like to attend a NY school because I think resident costs will be an advantage and also would like to practice here. GPA:3.39. LSAT score comes in next week.

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Br3v
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Br3v » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:12 am

Will_Imake_it wrote:
Br3v wrote:
Will_Imake_it wrote:so you would recommend a person attend HYS, T14, or just from any top 100 :D


It's not that easy. There are many factors including most of all, $$$. Rule of thumb is of course HYS, then a t14, then strong school in the region you want to work. This is a very rough rule if thumb. If you want more info provide more info about your situation (grades, lsat, where you want to practice)


I live in NYC. I would like to attend a NY school because I think resident costs will be an advantage and also would like to practice here. GPA:3.39. LSAT score comes in next week.


What were you PTing at?

Will_Imake_it
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Will_Imake_it » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:14 am

Br3v wrote:
Will_Imake_it wrote:
Br3v wrote:
Will_Imake_it wrote:so you would recommend a person attend HYS, T14, or just from any top 100 :D


It's not that easy. There are many factors including most of all, $$$. Rule of thumb is of course HYS, then a t14, then strong school in the region you want to work. This is a very rough rule if thumb. If you want more info provide more info about your situation (grades, lsat, where you want to practice)


I live in NYC. I would like to attend a NY school because I think resident costs will be an advantage and also would like to practice here. GPA:3.39. LSAT score comes in next week.


What were you PTing at?


avg 164-165 :(

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Br3v
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Br3v » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:17 am

So assuming test went normal and factoring in a slight drop in performance which is typical we can assume a 160-165 and 3.39. I would suggest retaking the LSAT and aiming for 170+. A 165 shows you are more than capable of scoring 170. How did you study?

Will_Imake_it
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Will_Imake_it » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:22 am

Br3v wrote:So assuming test went normal and factoring in a slight drop in performance which is typical we can assume a 160-165 and 3.39. I would suggest retaking the LSAT and aiming for 170+. A 165 shows you are more than capable of scoring 170. How did you study?


Self study (6months) used majority of the PTs and a course by 7sagelaw.com, cannot sit out for another cycle because of personal reasons (one big is I F$%^& hate standerized tests, English is my second language. I think I will also attach an addenda with the apps, my SAT scores also sucked)

so yeah :|

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Br3v
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Br3v » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:25 am

Will_Imake_it wrote:
Br3v wrote:So assuming test went normal and factoring in a slight drop in performance which is typical we can assume a 160-165 and 3.39. I would suggest retaking the LSAT and aiming for 170+. A 165 shows you are more than capable of scoring 170. How did you study?


Self study (6months) used majority of the PTs and a course by 7sagelaw.com, cannot sit out for another cycle because of personal reasons (one big is I F$%^& hate standerized tests, English is my second language. I think I will also attach an addenda with the apps, my SAT scores also sucked)

so yeah :|


Well not wanting to, and not being able to sit out a cycle are two different things. If your insisting on applying and score in that range look at Fordham but I don't know anything about their medians or placement.

Will_Imake_it
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Will_Imake_it » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:29 am

Br3v wrote:
Will_Imake_it wrote:
Br3v wrote:So assuming test went normal and factoring in a slight drop in performance which is typical we can assume a 160-165 and 3.39. I would suggest retaking the LSAT and aiming for 170+. A 165 shows you are more than capable of scoring 170. How did you study?


Self study (6months) used majority of the PTs and a course by 7sagelaw.com, cannot sit out for another cycle because of personal reasons (one big is I F$%^& hate standerized tests, English is my second language. I think I will also attach an addenda with the apps, my SAT scores also sucked)

so yeah :|


Well not wanting to, and not being able to sit out a cycle are two different things. If your insisting on applying and score in that range look at Fordham but I don't know anything about their medians or placement.


alright thanks for the input.

I will be applying to schools in the tri-state area.. I am assuming my PS and maybe my resume should be advantageous when applying. Will also be applying to law schools in the DC area.

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Br3v
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Br3v » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:33 am

Just check out lawschooltransparency before you attend anywhere.

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spleenworship
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby spleenworship » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:34 am

1. Are u URM? If yes, advice is different, ignore 2 &3.
2. Get powerscore bibles. Wait and retake.
3. Fordham if U can't wait, but there's a really good chance u will regret it.

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spleenworship
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby spleenworship » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:37 am

Will_Imake_it wrote:
Br3v wrote:
Will_Imake_it wrote:
alright thanks for the input.

I will be applying to schools in the tri-state area.. I am assuming my PS and maybe my resume should be advantageous when applying. Will also be applying to law schools in the DC area.


PS and resume will mean virtually nothing unless you have some amazing softs. And I do mean amazing.

Will_Imake_it
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Will_Imake_it » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:48 am

spleenworship wrote:1. Are u URM? If yes, advice is different, ignore 2 &3.
2. Get powerscore bibles. Wait and retake.
3. Fordham if U can't wait, but there's a really good chance u will regret it.


not a URM, I am from a south asian country.

What do you mean by softs?

I guess, let's see how my outlook is after Jan 3rd.

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Br3v
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Br3v » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:49 am

Will_Imake_it wrote:
spleenworship wrote:1. Are u URM? If yes, advice is different, ignore 2 &3.
2. Get powerscore bibles. Wait and retake.
3. Fordham if U can't wait, but there's a really good chance u will regret it.


not a URM, I am from a south asian country.

What do you mean by softs?

I guess, let's see how my outlook is after Jan 3rd.


Anything not lsat or gpa.

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dingbat
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby dingbat » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:11 am

With that GPA and the LSAT range you're looking at, you'll probably get into Fordham, at sticker. You'll probably get some money (scholarships) at Cardozo and Brooklyn.

The problem is, Fordham at sticker is risky. It's not a bad school, but including cost of living, you're looking at close to a quarter million dollars. Some people will argue no school is worth that much. Many will say no school outside the T14 is. Only about 20-30% of students are competitive for "biglaw", which pays $160k the first year*. You can expect about 20%-30% to have no real job at all (last year was noticeably worse) and the rest have decent jobs, but not the kind of job that make it worthwhile. Click here for more info
*this includes students who do a Federal Clerkship, which often leads to a biglaw job afterwards

Cardozo and Brooklyn have noticeably worse employment stats, with barely 1 in 10 getting biglaw or a federal clerkship. Unless you're dead-set on biglaw, both would be good if you get a full scholarship, but are probably a bad idea at anything less than a half scholarship.

St. Johns and Hofstra are lagging behind Cardozo and Brooklyn and you probably shouldn't go unless you get a full scholarship, and even then you should pause to consider your options.

NYLS and Touro should not be attended even if they give you a full scholarship plus living stipend. Less than 1/3 of their students get jobs as lawyers.

Will_Imake_it
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Will_Imake_it » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:42 am

dingbat wrote:With that GPA and the LSAT range you're looking at, you'll probably get into Fordham, at sticker. You'll probably get some money (scholarships) at Cardozo and Brooklyn.

The problem is, Fordham at sticker is risky. It's not a bad school, but including cost of living, you're looking at close to a quarter million dollars. Some people will argue no school is worth that much. Many will say no school outside the T14 is. Only about 20-30% of students are competitive for "biglaw", which pays $160k the first year*. You can expect about 20%-30% to have no real job at all (last year was noticeably worse) and the rest have decent jobs, but not the kind of job that make it worthwhile. Click here for more info
*this includes students who do a Federal Clerkship, which often leads to a biglaw job afterwards

Cardozo and Brooklyn have noticeably worse employment stats, with barely 1 in 10 getting biglaw or a federal clerkship. Unless you're dead-set on biglaw, both would be good if you get a full scholarship, but are probably a bad idea at anything less than a half scholarship.

St. Johns and Hofstra are lagging behind Cardozo and Brooklyn and you probably shouldn't go unless you get a full scholarship, and even then you should pause to consider your options.

NYLS and Touro should not be attended even if they give you a full scholarship plus living stipend. Less than 1/3 of their students get jobs as lawyers.


thanks for the insight, one of my family friend received full ride to touro and hofstra but she instead decided to go to Brooklyn, she will be graduating next summer, she works for Lehman brothers holdings and she has told me that, she makes enough to pay off her tuition. So I am assuming, it isn't that bad out there.

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Nova
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Nova » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:47 am

Will_Imake_it wrote:thanks for the insigiht, one of my family friend received full ride to touro and hofstra but she instead decided to go to Brooklyn, she will be graduating next summer, she works for Lehman brothers holdings and she has told me that, she makes enough to pay off her tuition. So I am assuming, it isn't that bad out there.


LST wrote:•47.3% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. This figure includes no school-funded jobs.
•59.6% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
•63.7% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... show=chars
Last edited by Nova on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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spleenworship
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby spleenworship » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:47 am

Br3v wrote:
Will_Imake_it wrote:
spleenworship wrote:1. Are u URM? If yes, advice is different, ignore 2 &3.
2. Get powerscore bibles. Wait and retake.
3. Fordham if U can't wait, but there's a really good chance u will regret it.


not a URM, I am from a south asian country.

What do you mean by softs?

I guess, let's see how my outlook is after Jan 3rd.


Anything not lsat or gpa.


Bingo. Soft factors like resume and ps have an effect only as a tiebreaker if an admissions committee member is trying to choose between you an another person with nearly identical numbers. Only things like Olympic medals, medal of honor, setting up your own world famous NGO or fortune 500 company, or a PhD budges that. And the PhD only a little unless it is in a hard science. Nobel prize might do the trick too. Otherwise, they're just a tiebreaker. Get your LSAT up, do powerscore, or choose schools in less competive regions. DC and NYC are supersaturated with really amazing law schools that aren't going to consider your application. Sorry if that hurts, but we are just trying to save you money and heartbreak. The schools you are applying to now simply won't make your dreams come true with a greater than 50/50 chances.

ETA: your family friend is the exception. You are talking about taking $250,000 in debt to have a 33% chance of getting a job that pays enough to service your debt. This is a risk I wouldn't take.

Will_Imake_it
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Re: Does Tier 1 law schools offer better job prospects?

Postby Will_Imake_it » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:59 am

spleenworship wrote:
Br3v wrote:
Will_Imake_it wrote:
spleenworship wrote:1. Are u URM? If yes, advice is different, ignore 2 &3.
2. Get powerscore bibles. Wait and retake.
3. Fordham if U can't wait, but there's a really good chance u will regret it.


not a URM, I am from a south asian country.

What do you mean by softs?

I guess, let's see how my outlook is after Jan 3rd.


Anything not lsat or gpa.


Bingo. Soft factors like resume and ps have an effect only as a tiebreaker if an admissions committee member is trying to choose between you an another person with nearly identical numbers. Only things like Olympic medals, medal of honor, setting up your own world famous NGO or fortune 500 company, or a PhD budges that. And the PhD only a little unless it is in a hard science. Nobel prize might do the trick too. Otherwise, they're just a tiebreaker. Get your LSAT up, do powerscore, or choose schools in less competive regions. DC and NYC are supersaturated with really amazing law schools that aren't going to consider your application. Sorry if that hurts, but we are just trying to save you money and heartbreak. The schools you are applying to now simply won't make your dreams come true with a greater than 50/50 chances.

ETA: your family friend is the exception. You are talking about taking $250,000 in debt to have a 33% chance of getting a job that pays enough to service your debt. This is a risk I wouldn't take.


Actually I needed to hear those words. One last question, you mentioned less competitive regions; like mid western states?




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